HDFury Integral 2 Refresh Rate / Resolution Query

bigshorty45

Active Member
Hi Everyone
Hoping someone who has experience in using a HDFury Integral 2 can help me out with answering a query I have regarding the Integral 2s capabilities.
I bought the HDFury Integral 2 to allow me to swap display of my Xbox Series X console to between my TV and PC monitor. My TV is an LG 65UN85, capable of displaying 4K at 120Hz. My monitor is a Gigabyte Aorus FI27Q which has a maximum resolution of 1440p with a refresh rate of 165Hz.
Now I have set it up and been playing around with it and the best resolution and frame rate I can achieve on both displays is 1440p at 120Hz. When I change the Xbox resolution settings to 4K I loose the picture. Can anyone please tell me if this is happening because the maximum resolution that can be displayed on my monitor is 1440p, and is not allowing the change to 4K because the monitor is not capable of doing so?
I hope that query makes sense and I would be very grateful for any comments or information anyone can share with me.
 

next010

Distinguished Member
Hi Everyone
Hoping someone who has experience in using a HDFury Integral 2 can help me out with answering a query I have regarding the Integral 2s capabilities.
I bought the HDFury Integral 2 to allow me to swap display of my Xbox Series X console to between my TV and PC monitor. My TV is an LG 65UN85, capable of displaying 4K at 120Hz. My monitor is a Gigabyte Aorus FI27Q which has a maximum resolution of 1440p with a refresh rate of 165Hz.
Now I have set it up and been playing around with it and the best resolution and frame rate I can achieve on both displays is 1440p at 120Hz. When I change the Xbox resolution settings to 4K I loose the picture. Can anyone please tell me if this is happening because the maximum resolution that can be displayed on my monitor is 1440p, and is not allowing the change to 4K because the monitor is not capable of doing so?
I hope that query makes sense and I would be very grateful for any comments or information anyone can share with me.

You monitor is only HDMI 2.0 based it cannot do 4K 120Hz, only 1440p/1080p 120Hz.

The UN8500 has a HDMI 2.1 connection so it can do 4K 120Hz.

Some LG TV's also feature a custom HDMI 2.0 4K 120hz mode via 8-bit YCC 420 chroma subsampling and is SDR only no HDR support.

The HD Fury Integral 2 is HDMI 2.0 based, so the best it can do is 1440p 120Hz.
 

bigshorty45

Active Member
You monitor is only HDMI 2.0 based it cannot do 4K 120Hz, only 1440p/1080p 120Hz.

The UN8500 has a HDMI 2.1 connection so it can do 4K 120Hz.

Some LG TV's also feature a custom HDMI 2.0 4K 120hz mode via 8-bit YCC 420 chroma subsampling and is SDR only no HDR support.

The HD Fury Integral 2 is HDMI 2.0 based, so the best it can do is 1440p 120Hz.

Many, many thanks for your explanation on the Integral 2 and its limitation, I really appreciate it and was exactly the same conclusion I had come too, just needed clarification.

Couple more quick, easier questions if you don’t mind. Firstly, would having a 4K monitor that can support refresh rates up to 120Hz mean that I could achieve 4K at 120Hz on both the monitor and TV through the Integral 2? Also, and a rather odd question, but should I leave my Integral 2 powered on constantly, or is it safe to turn off when not in use?

Answers would be greatly appreciated, thanks.
 

chopples

Distinguished Member
Couple more quick, easier questions if you don’t mind. Firstly, would having a 4K monitor that can support refresh rates up to 120Hz mean that I could achieve 4K at 120Hz on both the monitor and TV through the Integral 2?

hi mate

The answer is no as @next010 says the integral is a hdmi 2.0b device, not hdmi 2.1. You can test this yourself easily enough, just take the monitor of out of the chain and leave your TV and Xbox connected to the Fury, what you get is the same as what you would get if you where to spend on a new 4k120 monitor. In addition the integral does not support any Variable refresh rate standards (freesync,gsync etc...)

If 120hz is the main thing you are after then I would have thought just buying a series s for the pc would be cheaper than a new 4K 120 screen??

my integral 2 has been plugged in for over a year and is actually powered by the USB port from my nas. It powers itself off and on by detecting the signal coming through when the connected device is turned on.
 

bigshorty45

Active Member
hi mate

The answer is no as @next010 says the integral is a hdmi 2.0b device, not hdmi 2.1. You can test this yourself easily enough, just take the monitor of out of the chain and leave your TV and Xbox connected to the Fury, what you get is the same as what you would get if you where to spend on a new 4k120 monitor. In addition the integral does not support any Variable refresh rate standards (freesync,gsync etc...)

If 120hz is the main thing you are after then I would have thought just buying a series s for the pc would be cheaper than a new 4K 120 screen??

my integral 2 has been plugged in for over a year and is actually powered by the USB port from my nas. It powers itself off and on by detecting the signal coming through when the connected device is turned on.

Thanks for the reply and for answering my queries, I do appreciate it.

There is one thing that is confusing me though and was hoping you might be able to help clear up for me. In the specifications list for the Integral 2 it states the following supported formats:

“HDFury Integral 2 - 4K60 4:4:4 8b, 4K60 4:2:2 12b, 4K120 4:2:0 8b, 8K30 4:2:0 8b”

You can clearly see that 4K at 120Hz is supported, so why state it can support that format when I have been told on here that it can’t? Any comments on this would greatly appreciated.
 

chopples

Distinguished Member
You can clearly see that 4K at 120Hz is supported, so why state it can support that format when I have been told on here that it can’t? Any comments on this would greatly appreciated.

Sorry mate I missed the part where you wanted to give up HDR. In theory the integral should pass 4k120hz 8bit 420 as it is below the 600mhz limit, this signal is also SDR only.

My point still stands though , you can answer the original question yourself by removing the pc monitor from the chain and setting everything on the integral to auto mix (passthrough). If it was to work I would guess the Xbox would need to be set in a way so it no longer outputs RGB for sdr. Not sure on the appropriate settings to do that sorry.

Given the displays involved I can understand not being bothered about HDR but I am still not sure why you would want to do this and give up VRR.
 

bigshorty45

Active Member
Sorry mate I missed the part where you wanted to give up HDR. In theory the integral should pass 4k120hz 8bit 420 as it is below the 600mhz limit, this signal is also SDR only.

My point still stands though , you can answer the original question yourself by removing the pc monitor from the chain and setting everything on the integral to auto mix (passthrough). If it was to work I would guess the Xbox would need to be set in a way so it no longer outputs RGB for sdr. Not sure on the appropriate settings to do that sorry.

Given the displays involved I can understand not being bothered about HDR but I am still not sure why you would want to do this and give up VRR.

Thanks again so much for your reply.

I’m not overly fussed with HDR, to be honest whenever I’ve used it on any of my displays it makes the image more colourful, but also darker, I like my displays to be how I set them and have never really seen how HDR benefits an image, I guess that’s down to personal preference.

Concerning your comment about giving up variable refresh rate, any chance you can explain to me why this is not ideal?

I will definitely try your suggestion of taking the PC monitor out of the loop and see what happens, although I’m still having major issues on how to set the Integral 2 up. I’ve followed the manual but I am struggling to make head nor tail of it. I’m not the brightest person I’d admit, but I’m also not totally illiterate, Im also quite technically minded but setting up the Integral 2 is really proving to be a struggle. Any hints or tips would be welcome.

Many thanks
 

chopples

Distinguished Member
Concerning your comment about giving up variable refresh rate, any chance you can explain to me why this is not ideal?

High frame rate is one benefit of next gen consoles but I would argue VRR actually has more impact to the experience. What VRR does is adjust the refresh rate on the fly according to the in game framerate. By doing this of oddities such as screen tearing is eliminated. I have attached an article which may explain it better than I can



Unfortunately I cannot really assist in setting up the integral for 4k120 8bit as my displays are not compatible but if you head over to avsforum you should be able to find the integral 2 thread which has an active representative from HDfury which may be able to assist.

I think the first thing you need to do is find out how the series x behaves with an SDR signal, is it RGB? Does enabling 4.2.2 allow ycbcr with 8bit? You can do this by setting the console to 4k60, playing with the various bit depth/chroma settings and reading the output on the integral osd.
 

next010

Distinguished Member
There is one thing that is confusing me though and was hoping you might be able to help clear up for me. In the specifications list for the Integral 2 it states the following supported formats:

“HDFury Integral 2 - 4K60 4:4:4 8b, 4K60 4:2:2 12b, 4K120 4:2:0 8b, 8K30 4:2:0 8b”

You can clearly see that 4K at 120Hz is supported, so why state it can support that format when I have been told on here that it can’t? Any comments on this would greatly appreciated.

The HD Fury and LG supports the custom HDMI 2.0 4K 120hz YCC 422 8-bit mode but the PC monitor does not.

The integral would have to scale that 4K 120Hz mode down to 1440p 120Hz as something the PC monitor can accept, it might be possible with the HD Fury if they support scaling to 1440p.

You might have to contact the HD Fury guys to get that answer, they also have a discord channel on their site were you might get a faster response.
 

bigshorty45

Active Member
Thanks for all your comments, I do appreciate them.

From what I’m gathering the best configuration I can achieve for both my monitor and TV is 1440p resolution at 120Hz. To me this config setup is fine, I’d much prefer higher frame rate over resolution and I have managed to setup the Integral 2 to achieve this now, however I think I managed to do this more by luck than anything. There are plenty of threads on avsforums relating to Integral 2 setup guides, but I haven’t been able to find one specific enough to help with my requirements, although I do still have plenty more threads to look through. I’ll keep plodding on trying to figure it all out.

Thanks again for your help.
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
The HDFury Integral2, nor any other video processor, cannot change the capabilities of your Display device(s) - the best a dual Output processor can do when you have differing capabilities with multiple Displays connected is pass the highest capability of your prime monitor to the prime monitor and simultaneously down convert the output to the secondary display to suit the lesser capabilities of that display.

Down conversion may include pixel clock, frame rate, colour space... you need to be clear about what your secondary display requires and at times replacing the secondary display may be the least cost solution.

Joe
 

bigshorty45

Active Member
The HDFury Integral2, nor any other video processor, cannot change the capabilities of your Display device(s) - the best a dual Output processor can do when you have differing capabilities with multiple Displays connected is pass the highest capability of your prime monitor to the prime monitor and simultaneously down convert the output to the secondary display to suit the lesser capabilities of that display.

Down conversion may include pixel clock, frame rate, colour space... you need to be clear about what your secondary display requires and at times replacing the secondary display may be the least cost solution.

Joe

I really do appreciate your help in helping me understand the limitations of the Integral 2.

So simply put, as the monitor can only achieve a resolution of 1440p from the source device, then any other display connected to the Integral 2 will also only be able to display a maximum of 1440p resolution, is that a correct assumption?

With that in mind, if I were to upgrade my PC monitor to a 4K monitor, and with my TV being able to display 4K, then would 4K resolution would be achievable on both displays through the Integral 2?
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
The HDFury Integral² supports:

Integral2 Support:600MHz/18Gbps HDR, HDR10+, HLG, DV & LLDV, ARC, ALLM, IMAX
Max Resolution:4K60 4:4:4 8b, 4K60 4:2:2 12b, 4K120 4:2:0 8b or 8K30 4:2:0 8b

You can pass any of the above signals through to two displays if both Displays support the signal format your Source is Outputting.

You can pass any of the above signals through to your Primary display if the Display supports the signal format your Source is Outputting plus down convert the signal to a lower resolution (same frame rate) if your Secondary Display will support that signal.

You cannot convert HDR to SDR so if you are inputting HDR both Displays must support HDR or you reset the Source to SDR - you can pass HDR to the Primary Display (assuming it supports it) when the Secondary Display is not active.

The User Manual is avaible on the HDFury website - https://www.hdfury.com/docs/HDfuryIntegral2.pdf

Joe
 

bigshorty45

Active Member
At 60hz yes.

At 120hz no.

I’m still rather confused by the whole supported maximum resolution settings the Integral 2 can display. Please forgive me if I’m being really stupid here and not seeing the obvious, but you state that the Integral 2 cannot support 4K resolution at 120Hz even if both displays can support that resolution and refresh rate, but according to Joe’s reply prior to yours he states it can:

The HDFury Integral² supports:

Integral2 Support: 600MHz/18Gbps HDR, HDR10+, HLG, DV & LLDV, ARC, ALLM, IMAX
Max Resolution: 4K60 4:4:4 8b, 4K60 4:2:2 12b, 4K120 4:2:0 8b or 8K30 4:2:0 8b

Under max resolution it says “4K120 4:2:0 8b”, now I’m presuming the 4K120 section mean resolution and refresh rate, is that correct? If it is then why can’t the Integral 2 output 4K 120Hz display to two devices that can support that resolution and refresh rate? Like I said I’m probably being really dumb, if so then I do apologise!
 

next010

Distinguished Member
I’m still rather confused by the whole supported maximum resolution settings the Integral 2 can display. Please forgive me if I’m being really stupid here and not seeing the obvious, but you state that the Integral 2 cannot support 4K resolution at 120Hz even if both displays can support that resolution and refresh rate, but according to Joe’s reply prior to yours he states it can:

The HDFury Integral² supports:

Integral2 Support: 600MHz/18Gbps HDR, HDR10+, HLG, DV & LLDV, ARC, ALLM, IMAX
Max Resolution: 4K60 4:4:4 8b, 4K60 4:2:2 12b, 4K120 4:2:0 8b or 8K30 4:2:0 8b

Under max resolution it says “4K120 4:2:0 8b”, now I’m presuming the 4K120 section mean resolution and refresh rate, is that correct? If it is then why can’t the Integral 2 output 4K 120Hz display to two devices that can support that resolution and refresh rate? Like I said I’m probably being really dumb, if so then I do apologise!

4K - resolution
120Hz - refresh rate
8-bit - bit depth
YCC/RGB - colour format
444/422/420 - chroma subsampling, 444 is uncompressed, 422/420 is compressed and used were bandwidth limitations are present.

4K 120hz 444 is not possible over HDMI 2.0 due to bandwidth limits, so some TV vendors cooked up this custom 4K120 4:2:0 8b mode for PC users who can force this output in their GPU driver (Xbox also seems to have added support for it).

So your TV, Xbox and Integral 2 all support this custom 4K 120hz mode.

But PC monitors do not.

PC monitors have Displayport connection which can do 4K 144Hz so they have no need for this custom mode. Now that said I could be wrong but I don't know of any PC monitors which support the 4K120 4:2:0 8b over HDMI.

So even if you bought a 4K 144Hz PC monitor it would be stuck at 4K 60hz without that custom 4K120 4:2:0 8b mode baked into the monitors HDMI port.
 
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bigshorty45

Active Member
4K - resolution
120Hz - refresh rate
8-bit - bit depth
YCC/RGB - colour format
444/422/420 - chroma subsampling, 444 is uncompressed, 422/420 is compressed and used were bandwidth limitations are present.

4K 120hz 444 is not possible over HDMI 2.0 due to bandwidth limits, so some TV vendors cooked up this custom 4K120 4:2:0 8b mode for PC users who can force this output in their GPU driver (Xbox also seems to have added support for it).

So your TV, Xbox and Integral 2 all support this custom 4K 120hz mode.

But PC monitors do not.

PC monitors have Displayport connection which can do 4K 144Hz so they have no need for this custom mode. Now that said I could be wrong but I don't know of any PC monitors which support the 4K120 4:2:0 8b over HDMI.

So even if you bought a 4K 144Hz PC monitor it would be stuck at 4K 60hz without that custom 4K120 4:2:0 8b mode baked into the monitors HDMI port.

Many thanks for the reply, and thanks to that I believe I’m starting to understand how my Integral 2 and setup works and what the capabilities and limitations are, definitely a lot clearer anyway. Much appreciated.

One last thing, can the Integral 2 be setup for each specific display device? So for example, for my TV it would choose 4K resolution, but when I switch to my PC monitor it will select 1440p resolution?
 
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next010

Distinguished Member
Many thanks for the reply, and thanks to that I believe I’m starting to understand how my Integral 2 and setup works and what the capabilities and limitations are, definitely a lot clearer anyway. Much appreciated.

One last thing, can the Integral 2 be setup for each specific display device? So for example, for my TV it would choose 4K resolution, but when I switch to my PC monitor it will select 1440p resolution?

You are bound by what the Integral 2 supports and a quick check of HDFury website (assuming its up to date) shows this device does not support 1440p, only 2160p (4K) and 1080p.

To scale 4K 60hz to 1440p 60Hz would require support from the Integral 2 via a firmware update, your best contacting the HD Fury guys via email or discord to discuss that with them.
 

bigshorty45

Active Member
You are bound by what the Integral 2 supports and a quick check of HDFury website (assuming its up to date) shows this device does not support 1440p, only 2160p (4K) and 1080p.

To scale 4K 60hz to 1440p 60Hz would require support from the Integral 2 via a firmware update, your best contacting the HD Fury guys via email or discord to discuss that with them.

Attached is a screenshot of my Xbox 4K TV details from my PC monitor. This is with the signal going through the Integral 2 and with my TV in standby. Prior to this I’m pretty sure I’ve been running my Xbox on my PC monitor, through the Integral 2, at 1440p at 120Hz, at least that is the setup of my Xbox and it seems to be running fine. I also received a email response from the guys at HDFury and there was no suggestion that the HDFury cannot run 1440p, they actually stated exactly the same as you guys in that the maximum resolution supported by the Integral 2 would be 1440p with both my TV and monitor connected.
I’m finding this all too weird and confusing to be honest!
 

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bigshorty45

Active Member
In addition to what I just posted I have switched my TV on and can confirm that the Xbox is stating that it is in 1440p resolution at 120Hz refresh rate. When I change the Xbox to 4K then I loose signal to the TV and monitor, suggesting that the 1440p resolution setting is the maximum I can achieve with the monitor attached.
 

liwario

Novice Member
Hi Bigshorty45, can you share your settings of Integral 2 to me? I have Xbox One S connected to Samsung 27" G7 monitor (max at 1440p). I can set the resolution to 1440p on Xbox One S when the two are connected directly. However, when I add Integral 2 between the 2, the max resolution on Xbox One S is only 1080p. I add the Intergral 2 because I want to connect the Samsung with 2nd HDMI connect to a Marantz receiver.

I have already set SCALE to passthrough and don't know what went wrong. The max resolution on XBox One S is always max at 1080p no matter I connect the Marantz AVR or not. It would be great if you can share your settings.

Please forgive my poor English.
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor

liwario

Novice Member
I have upgrade the FPGA to the latest firmware and set auto mix mode. But still can only get 1080P. Am I setting anything wrong?
 

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bigshorty45

Active Member
Hi Bigshorty45, can you share your settings of Integral 2 to me? I have Xbox One S connected to Samsung 27" G7 monitor (max at 1440p). I can set the resolution to 1440p on Xbox One S when the two are connected directly. However, when I add Integral 2 between the 2, the max resolution on Xbox One S is only 1080p. I add the Intergral 2 because I want to connect the Samsung with 2nd HDMI connect to a Marantz receiver.

I have already set SCALE to passthrough and don't know what went wrong. The max resolution on XBox One S is always max at 1080p no matter I connect the Marantz AVR or not. It would be great if you can share your settings.

Please forgive my poor English.

I would send you my settings but I’m actually still trying to get used to using the Integral 2 myself, I’m finding it quite difficult to get to grips with. On top of that, when I actually have it set right, which is down to trial and error more than knowledge, the Integral 2 looses previous working settings whenever I power down my monitor, TV and Xbox overnight. I end up having to go back into the PC GUI installed on my laptop and make changes to get it back working the way I want it. It’s probably pretty straightforward to set up and get it running the way you want, but I’m struggling myself, and the user manual, even though quite in depth, is still hard for me to understand. It’s all quite frustrating at the moment, and I think a message to the guys at HDFury may be my last resort in trying to understand how to set up the Integral 2.
Sorry I can’t be of anymore help to you.
 

liwario

Novice Member
Thank you for your reply.

I agree it is quite frustrating to setup the Integral 2 using the manual. Actually HDFury has replied to my questions and sent me a custom EDID file which supposed to support 1440p. I opened it on custom EDID and uploaded to Integral 2 but don't know how to make it work. Seems nothing has changed after the upload. Xbox One S still cannot choose 1440p. Maybe it is because of my poor understanding.

Still trying hard to solve it.
 

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