HDDVD and True HD etc what do I need?

Donkey99

Banned
Got an XE1 the other day, currently connected to my amp by 5.1 analog outputs. Would there be an advantage to connecting it by HDMI instead? What spec does a suitable amp require to do this, just HDMI?

How do HD DVD players and HDMI amps work together to actually process HD audio?

Thanks for the help - totally bamboozled!
:eek: :confused:
 

Jase

Distinguished Member
The Amp/Receiver would need to be HDMI 1.1 and be able to process HDMI audio. Not all can, some are only switchers.

Basically the HD-DVD player will perform the decoding and pass Multichannel LPCM to the Amp. The Amp will then be able to apply bass management, EQ, PLIIx etc if it has those features.

Something like a Denon 2307 or 2807 & models above or a Yamaha 2700 would do the job nicely. :)
 

MADMAND

Banned
If you are hoping to use the new dts-HD MA format you are going to need a new reciever with the decoding built in, as no player on the market can decode this format as of now.

The digital vs analog debate seems the same for every digital connection: you will be getting the absolute maximum quality from a digital connenction. Anolog is a lossy connection. Another benefit of using a new HDMI 1.3 reciever is the automatic lip sync function.

New recievers from Denon and Onkyo are expected to hit the UK market in a few months. These recievers are capable of decoding all the new sound formats.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=508317&highlight=new+onkyo

http://www.avland.co.uk/denon/avr3808/avr-3808.htm
 

Corrado

Novice Member
The Denon does not mention DTS MA but DTS HD - is DTS MA and DTS HD the same thing?? Can't seem to work this one out!!
 

richimlong

Novice Member
The digital vs analog debate seems the same for every digital connection: you will be getting the absolute maximum quality from a digital connenction. Anolog is a lossy connection.
Maybe Ive understood you incorrectly, and I don't want to be argumentative, but Im pretty certain this statement is wrong.

If your HD source does the decoding, and passing the HD audio via 5.1/7.1 analogue outputs, there should be no loss.

At some point the digital signal needs to be converted to analogue to be converted into sound by the speakers. It is not lossy. If someone corrects me with a good explanation, then I apologise in advance ;)

I think the following article answers the OPs question quite nicely:
http://www.dolby.com/consumer/technology/trueHD/AVRs/trueHD_avrs_1.html

Rich
 

MADMAND

Banned
This review of the onkyo TX-SR674 elaborates on the difference between HDMI and analog audio connectivity. Second paragraph from the bottom of the article.

http://reviews.cnet.com/Onkyo_TX_SR674_black/4505-6466_7-31983431.html?tag=prod.txt.1#more

The same principal apllies for any digital transmission, be it DVI compared to VGA; HDMI to Component; phono to optical etc. All the aforementioned digtal connections are superior to their analog predecessors. There are many articles on the web explaining the reasons for this in much deeper detail.
 

hottstuff

Banned
The Denon does not mention DTS MA but DTS HD - is DTS MA and DTS HD the same thing?? Can't seem to work this one out!!
No they are not the same thing , DTS MA is higher quality.
Currently no players can process this , but im sure they will , and with the decoding done in the player , you won't need a reciever to do the encoding , just pass it as LPCM.
 

Corrado

Novice Member
Ah - so any idea why the amp claims to be DTS HD MA on the Onko and the Denon does not?

Especially given that the amp can't decode! Or can it?
 

hottstuff

Banned
Amps that can decode DTS MA will be very expensive , and need HDMI 1.3
If the amp can decode it , it will be sent straight from the player and so the player won't need the ability to decode.
 

richimlong

Novice Member
This review of the onkyo TX-SR674 elaborates on the difference between HDMI and analog audio connectivity. Second paragraph from the bottom of the article.

http://reviews.cnet.com/Onkyo_TX_SR6...rod.txt.1#more

The same principal apllies for any digital transmission, be it DVI compared to VGA; HDMI to Component; phono to optical etc. All the aforementioned digtal connections are superior to their analog predecessors. There are many articles on the web explaining the reasons for this in much deeper detail.
You're sort of right, but in my opinion you're missing the point slightly.

Every digital signal needs to be converted to an analogue signal so that it can be amplified and sent to the loudspeakers. What varies is when this digital to analogue conversion takes place.

I'll use DVD audio as an example. This is a high resolution audio format, and in this case the decoding is almost always done in the DVD player. Then the signal is transmitted to the amplifier via 5.1 analogue interconnects. No loss is incurred. The only difference is that you change at which point in the chain the digital to analogue connection happens.

The same principle can be applied to the HD audio formats discussed here. When a a signal is passed via HDMI, it still needs to be converted to analogue, except in this case it happens in the amplifier. The converted analogue signal will then pass through the 6/8 channel amplifier section and be output to the speakers. However this doesn't mean that the digital to analogue conversion cannot happen in the source because it can! It can then be passed to the amplifier via 5.1/7.1 analogue outputs, through the amplifier, into the speakers without loss. Dolby agree with me - read the second page of the link that I posted...

The review you link to says the sound is better via HDMI. This maybe so, but this will be down to a number of factors not related to lossy format - for example the DACs in the amp might be better in the amp than the source, or maybe the amp is applying post processing to the HDMI signal (the ability to do this is one tangible benfit of passing audio via HDMI).

However I reckon that if a high end audio company like arcam produced a HD player, I'd feel much more comfortable if that player did the digital to analogue conversion rather than leave it up to a £300 Onkyo amp... :)

Just my thoughts :)
Rich
 

Corrado

Novice Member
Amps that can decode DTS MA will be very expensive , and need HDMI 1.3
If the amp can decode it , it will be sent straight from the player and so the player won't need the ability to decode.
This new Onkyo is 1.3 - does that mean that it will decode it in the amp?
 
A

AVdavid

Guest
My feeling is if you are happy with the sound of LPCM via your analogue inputs at the moment then you will probably not hear much difference going the HDMI route unless the new AV receiver has much better amps than your current one.
Provided Panasonic regularly update the XE1 firmware with DTS MA and HD support you should be covered with your current setup unless you want 7.1 audio then you will have to go HDMI from you XE1.


Dave
 

NedZeppelin

Novice Member
If an AV receiver has 1.3, but the LCD doesn't, does that mean there won't be any difference between using a 1.1 and 1.3 receiver?
 

rulocal

Well-known Member
My feeling is if you are happy with the sound of LPCM via your analogue inputs at the moment then you will probably not hear much difference going the HDMI route unless the new AV receiver has much better amps than your current one.
Provided Panasonic regularly update the XE1 firmware with DTS MA and HD support you should be covered with your current setup unless you want 7.1 audio then you will have to go HDMI from you XE1.


Dave
I am looking to get an amp to go with my XE1 and would be happy to get an older/cheaper model and use the analogue outs but am worried about the fleixibilty of this method of connection.Do you have the same audio delay/eq options if using the analogue ins or does not using the LPCM via HDMI reduce the setup options.

Cheera
 

Corrado

Novice Member
On another note, how do Onkyo compare to Denon in terms of build and all round sonic quality. You seem to get more bang for buck with Onkyo but is it all too good to be true!?
 

MADMAND

Banned
You're sort of right, but in my opinion you're missing the point slightly.

Every digital signal needs to be converted to an analogue signal so that it can be amplified and sent to the loudspeakers. What varies is when this digital to analogue conversion takes place.

I'll use DVD audio as an example. This is a high resolution audio format, and in this case the decoding is almost always done in the DVD player. Then the signal is transmitted to the amplifier via 5.1 analogue interconnects. No loss is incurred. The only difference is that you change at which point in the chain the digital to analogue connection happens.

The same principle can be applied to the HD audio formats discussed here. When a a signal is passed via HDMI, it still needs to be converted to analogue, except in this case it happens in the amplifier. The converted analogue signal will then pass through the 6/8 channel amplifier section and be output to the speakers. However this doesn't mean that the digital to analogue conversion cannot happen in the source because it can! It can then be passed to the amplifier via 5.1/7.1 analogue outputs, through the amplifier, into the speakers without loss. Dolby agree with me - read the second page of the link that I posted...

The review you link to says the sound is better via HDMI. This maybe so, but this will be down to a number of factors not related to lossy format - for example the DACs in the amp might be better in the amp than the source, or maybe the amp is applying post processing to the HDMI signal (the ability to do this is one tangible benfit of passing audio via HDMI).

However I reckon that if a high end audio company like arcam produced a HD player, I'd feel much more comfortable if that player did the digital to analogue conversion rather than leave it up to a £300 Onkyo amp... :)

Just my thoughts :)
Rich
The DVD player used in the cnet review was an award winning £1500 marantz. So how did the £300 Onkyo do a better job than the marantz? There are more benefits to HDMI than the ability to apply post processing.
 

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