HDCP on old Sony Bravia KDL 32S3020

Discussion in 'Sony TVs Forum' started by dogrelata, Dec 25, 2011.

  1. dogrelata

    dogrelata
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    Hi,

    My mother has a 4 year old Sony Bravia KDL 32S3020 and I've just given her a Humax HDR-FOXT2 PVR so she can finally view and record Freeview HD channels.

    The problem is the set does not recognise the HDMI input and when I plug the cable into one of the HDMI slots, the PVR gives an information message saying this set does not support high definition copy protection (HDCP), so the HD channels can only be displayed in SD via a SCART cable.

    I've Googled firmware updates for the set but can't find anything. Does anybody know if the Sony can be updated to support HDCP and, if so, where can I find the saftware?

    Thanks.
     
  2. redaprilia

    redaprilia
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    Sorry its time for a modern TV then as there is no way round this problem . Suggestions that would be suitable for a elderly person would be Panasonic "e" series in any screen size paired with a BWT700 ( or 500 / 100 ) recorder . Dont know how old your Mum is But a Humax ?
     
  3. dogrelata

    dogrelata
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    Thanks, this is what I suspected.

    My mother's in her 70s but she's been using an SD Humax for the last couple of years so knows her way around them.
     
  4. dogrelata

    dogrelata
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    Today I took my blu-ray player to my mother's and it worked without a hitch. I then took her new Humax PVR in the opposite direction and it worked fine with my Panasonic G20 plasma.

    This begins to look like a specific problem between the Sony and Humax, rather than a general HDMI issue with either.

    I've found a web site that details a procedure to deal with HDCP compatibility issues between Sky STB and displays but running that has made no difference.

    Any other suggestions would be gratefully received.

    Thanks.
     
  5. iaint

    iaint
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    Hi.
    Your bluray player may well be silently downgrading the output incase of HDCP failure. A laptop with nvidia graphics and HDMI port may be useful; the nvidia control panel will confirm if HDCP is working or not. Unsure about ATI/Intel based laptops...
    If you're sure the HDMI cable is good, have you tried asking Sony for an explanation?
    --
    Regards, Iain.
     
  6. dogrelata

    dogrelata
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    Thanks Iain.

    I don’t have access to a laptop of any kind. I’ve tried the PVR with three different cables and I’ve spoken to both Sony and Humax on the phone and have started an email exchange with Sony. As yet they aren’t even able to confirm whether their set is HDCP compliant or not!

    The blu-ray is a 1-year-old model by Philips, who are presumably party to the HDCP agreement, but maybe I’m clutching at straws. Even if the Sony is HDCP compliant, I’m not sure how the Humax can be made to ‘communicate’ with it.

    Regards,

    Andy.
     
  7. dogrelata

    dogrelata
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    Hi Iain,

    It's just occurred to me that I misunderstood what you meant with the term 'silently downgrading' - I assumed you meant outputting in 576i on the fly. It never occurred to me because the picture quality on the Sony when paired with the blu-ray seemed so obviously HD. I've now re-connected the blu-ray to the Sony and it confirms the signal is HD - 1080i at 60mhz. I guess this also confirms the Sony is HDCP compliant.

    This is where it starts to get interesting though, not to mention frustrating. The Sony does not automatically recognise HDMI inputs, you have to scan for them and 'register' them with the set. So, having set the blu-ray up to run from HDMI slot 2, I decided to remove the blu-ray player from HDMI 2 and replace it with the Humax. It worked and displayed the HD channels in HD, reporting the signal as 1080i at 50mhz. It looks like the Sony was fooled into believing it was still receiving a signal from the blu-ray and was happy to display that signal.

    But this is also where it gets frustrating. When you move away from that 'session', e.g. back to standard TV viewing, and then back to viewing via the HDMI slot, the Sony no longer able to 'see' the Humax, without first re-connecting the blu-ray player to HDMI 2 and then relpacing it with the Humax. In the real world that is a lot of hassle to view HD, although it can be made to work at a push.

    I'm wondering if a two way switch, taking signals from both a blu-ray and the Humax and feeding it to one HDMI slot in the TV might work.

    Thanks,

    Andy.
     
  8. iaint

    iaint
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    Hi.
    My understanding is that in the event of HDCP failure, devices are permitted to either output nothing, or degrade output to 480i, or output HD, depending on the restrictions embedded in the content. Apparently most older BD discs have the ICT set to permit full HD even without HDCP.
    The fact you're talking about having to scan for devices suggests some sort of HDMI-CEC aka Bravia-Sync aka EasyLink issue at work. As far as I know the Humax does not support HDMI-CEC; look for the option in the TV menus to switch Bravia-Sync off, and see if that helps. There should be another way to select the HDMI inputs...
    --
    Regards, Iain.
     
  9. dogrelata

    dogrelata
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    Cheers Iain,

    I've tried to connect via the Sony's HDMI control option switched off but to no avail.

    I'm not that familiar with the set, but I don't see any other way of selecting the HDMI inputs, other than via the External List menu option and they do not appear on the External Inputs list unless a device has already been paired with a particular slot.

    I have found a few references to disabling pin 13 at one end of the HDMI cable, but can find no obvious means of doing so, short of butchering the wire with a sharp object and I suspect that is ill advised. I've also found a number of references to hot swapping, which I did this morning, and that is most definitely not advisable, so I shan't be doing that again.

    I may have a potential solution though, albeit at a price. I've spoken to Future Shop and ordered an Atlona AT-HDSYNC hot plug on a sale or return basis. They say it has been used to solve similar problems in the past, so we'll just need to wait and see. It would be nice if I could find a cheaper solution in the meantime though...

    Regards,

    Andy.
     
  10. dogrelata

    dogrelata
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    After days of head scratching, trial and error and reading articles on the internet, I've finally got the Humax PVR to talk to the Sony TV and deliver the HD pictures it was designed for.

    The problems encountered seem fairly common, so I thought I'd post the solution I've come up with as it may help others in the same boat, although the two technologies that appear to be at the heart of the problem, namely HDCP and HDMI CEC both seem really flakey, so there's no guarantee it will work in any other set up. Truth be told, I've only just got it working now and who knows if it will still be working this time tomorrow.

    Basically there seems to be a conflict between the old Sony Bravia and the new Humax PVR that doesn't allow the Sony to ‘see' the Humax when connected via HDMI. To get round this, I've ‘fooled' the Sony into thinking the Humax is a blu-ray player, as it has no problem seeing current spec blu-ray players. Originally I did this by ‘hot swapping' the HDMI cables but this is both impractical and very dangerous to the wellbeing of the devices involved.

    To avoid the above, a 3 way HDMI switch was bought and both Humax and blu-ray were connected to the Sony via it. When the blu-ray was powered up, the Sony recognised it and ‘granted' it control of HDMI port 1. When the input on the switch is changed to the Humax, the Sony has no problem taking the signal from it. I have experimented with turning all the devices off then turning on the TV followed by the Humax and the Sony is still quite happy for it to take control of HDMI 1, even if the blu-ray is powered down.

    If control is taken away from the HDMI inputs completely, by selecting the TV itself as the input, then the Humax can no longer gain control of HDMI 1. In these cases, the blu-ray needs to be powered up to effect the ‘handshake' before the Humax can gain control again.

    There is some picture quality degradation as a result of going through the switch, but it is fairly small.

    P.S. I forgot to say the Atlona AT-HDSYNC Hot Plug I mentioned in my last post arrived this morning but did not solve this particular problem, so it has been sent back for a refund.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2011
  11. iaint

    iaint
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    Hi.
    Probably a bit late now, but on the remote, slightly above and to the right of the 5-way direction arrows, below blue, there's a button with an arrow pointing into a rectangle. That's input select; press repeatedly to select AV4/AV5 or AV7, depending upon which socket you plugged it in to.
    --
    Regards, Iain.
     
  12. dogrelata

    dogrelata
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    Cheers Iain,

    I know, but on this set, it does not select the HDMI slots when you do that. Even though HDMI 1 is AV4, it does not show that when you toggle through the options. At the moment it only toggles between the TV itself and a couple of old pieces of equipment that were attached to the set in the past - a VCR and the SD PVR that has just been replaced. On the External Inputs list, the HDMI slot is shown as a separate entity at the top, not as AV4.

    As a user interface, the old Sony seems a bit clunky to my untrained eye.

    Regards,

    Andy.
     
  13. iaint

    iaint
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    Hi.
    How daft. That would seem in contradiction to p17 of the user guide... :-\ Could it be something like someone changed the name of the HDMI input under <toolbox> -> AV Preset, causing confusion, or set it to "Skip", causing it to be skipped? It's on P26 of the user guide...
    --
    Regards, Iain.
     
  14. dogrelata

    dogrelata
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    Hi Iain,

    Okay, I understand now. I’m so used to Panasonic TVs, it never occurred to me that I’d have to prep the AV inputs in order to make them ‘visible’. I’ve gone through all the AV inputs and returned the redundant ones to Skip and AV4 to SAT any everything works seamlessly now. Not only that, I’ve also enabled AV5, moved the blu-ray player to that and connected the Humax directly to AV4 and am able to toggle between them without any problems.

    With hindsight, despite the Sony’s apparent failure to find the Humax when carrying out HDMI control searches, I expect the two units have been able to work together from the start but it’s wasn’t possible to observe the fact because visibility of AV4 hadn’t been enabled by removing the Skip setting.

    Thanks for all your help in finally getting this issue resolved.

    Regards,

    Andy.
     
  15. iaint

    iaint
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    Hi.
    Glad to have been able to assist. I would agree; Sony seems to have a knack for a confusing user interface. On the LG part of this forum, someone had to reread the manual for their Sony bluray player because they couldn't get the wireless network to connect. Because on that one screen, Sony changed the meaning of the remote buttons, so he was cancelling the setup right at the end... :)
    --
    Regards, Iain.
     

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