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HDCP on a SDI question.

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by the klang, Mar 24, 2005.

  1. the klang

    the klang
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    hello !
    was thinking about this at work today and could not think of a reason for this not to work,here we go,
    if a hi def digital signal from say a HD-DVD player(when they come out)will only be from a HDCP protected port (HDMI,DVI-D) and not any of the analog signals then how about fitting a SDI port to the player and out to a scaler with a SDI input and out through what ever digital port you want thus avoiding any HDCP .
    i suppose it depends on where the HDCP comes in to play inside the player as to wether you can do this or not.

    i don't know,just a thought and feel free to skin me alive for speaking such utter rubbish! :)
     
  2. vonhosen

    vonhosen
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    If you can fit SDI to it you would avoid HDCP as you suggest, but of course it may not be that easy.

    I'm pretty sure that manufacturers will be doing their level best to make it impossible to implement.

    Even current Sky+ version 2 boxes can't be SDI modded , only the version 1 boxes can.
     
  3. KraGorn

    KraGorn
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    There is an HD-SDI standard apparently but from comments posted by Jim at Lumagen last year there's little to no chance the MPAA and DVDCCA will allow player manufacturers to sell players capable of being modified .. indeed, they're applying pressure to stop SD players being modified.
     
  4. the klang

    the klang
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    where there is a will there is a way !
    im shaw the more knowledgable of you will keep an eye on such developments.

    thanks for the insight. :thumbsup:
     
  5. the klang

    the klang
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    how about a HCPC that can deal with a HD-DVD disc?they seem to deal with every other form of hi def material.i think its fair to say that in the coming months they will bring out a dvd player for the pc market that can read a HD-DVD disc,and how many personal computers use HDMI or DVI-D as an output?they all seem to use VGA MINI D-SUB and RGBHV what ever that is.and wile im having a fit about it i read somewhere that the XBOX2 will run on HD-DVD based games and play HD-DVD films,do you think the output for that gaming unit will be HDCP compliant?
     
  6. KraGorn

    KraGorn
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    From everything I've read it's clear that HD DVD will only be decodable to HDCP protected digital, analog hidef won't be allowed (HD material will be down-scaled to SD analog) and on PCs decoding will be done in protected hardware, probably the graphics card .. at present DVD-Audio is only possible on one or two audio cards since the license for it doesn't allow a software decoder, expect HD DVD to be the same.

    The DVDCCA are not going to repeat the mistake that allowed DeCSS to be created.

    'Trusted computing' techniques will be deployed in CE players and PCs to prevent extraction of unprotected decoded signals, IOW forget SDI modding .. Intel have developed the chips and CE manufacturers will have to use them as part of the license requirements they'll have to meet in order to obtain ACSS decoders.
     
  7. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Currently there are some HD sources that can be HDSDI modded. However the likelihood is that the MPEG4/VC1/Whatever decoder chipsets that are going to go on to BluRay and HD-DVD players, HD-SAT boxes....will not be constructed in a way to allow the unencrypted digital info to be stripped off the bus. Obviously the manufacturers of the devices will not be able to offer the mod if it's possible but I'm sure if it is possble there will be plenty of third parties stepping up to the plate.

    Gordon
     
  8. KraGorn

    KraGorn
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    You have more confidence that I Gordon. Having read a long article about the TCPA developments Intel have done it seems those in power are doing a very good job at making this technology hack-proof .. and with DMCA-like laws which outlaw such tampering spreading around the world anyone managing to break it are likely to hear from the DVDCCA pretty quickly.
     
  9. the klang

    the klang
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    dam it im lost again!both of you (gordon and kragorn)are talking in a language im not expecting to understand for a number of years,just got a book called ..HDTV FOR DUMMYS...get where im coming from?
    still thanks for the info and have a good easter.
     
  10. KraGorn

    KraGorn
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    Sorry to confuse .. TCPA stands for 'Trusted Computing Platform Alliance', you can read far more than you want to know here, however for the potential for abuse of such techniques by copyright owners and others is outlined here, especially as it applies to what Microsoft is planning in Longhorn.

    In the context of HD DVD it's a hardware implementation being deployed in PCs and future CE equipment.

    In HD DVD players it will for example make it nigh on impossible to flash hacked firmware to remove region coding, it will also make it very, very hard if not impossible for SDI-type modifications since the unprotected digital streams will be inaccessible via soldered-in taps.

    In PCs it has the potential to make the development of software such as DVD rippers nigh on impossible .. no more DeCSS from 'DVD Jon' .. it's quite probable that HD DVD decoding will only be licensed in hardware that will be protected by TCPA-type techniques once Longhorn, the next flavour of Windows, is released. Many recent and most future PCs from the major PC makers are already equipped with the TCPA hardware on the motherboard.
     
  11. David PluggedIn

    David PluggedIn
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    Hi Robin

    I dont think it is all as clear cut though. As you know there is a *huge* community in the computing world that devote their waking hours to circumvent copy protection schemes, either to prove their prowess or for illegal gain. Furthermore, the asian market is growing at an incredible rate, and there is lots of evidence suggesting that they dont want to have Western mega-corporations controlling all content. It will be really interesting to see how it all pans out though :)
     
  12. KraGorn

    KraGorn
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    But the whole point of TCPA is that software debuggers and reverse-engineering techniques can't work, the data is protected by encrypted hardware busses that defeat logic analysers.

    Even without TCPA techniques, to this day DVD-Audio remains unbroken in large part because there are no software decoders in existence to be reverse-engineered, the only decoders available are hardware-based.

    I'm sure the NSA could break it, 'DVD Jon' and his ilk certainly won't. ;)
     

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