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HDCP DVI to VGA boxes

Nic Rhodes

Distinguished Member
Many of us use these boxes to allowing the use of HDMI devices with our analogue outputs. The most popular has been the Dtronics box for many of us as it is the most reliable. These new boxes are now no longer HDCP compliant so this is the last call for anyone to buy one of the old 'HDCP aware' boxes. CRT Projectors have only 10 left now, I suspect many of the other suppliers are already on new stock which will NOT work. When they are gone, they are gone. Last chance saloon...:( but I think we all knew this was coming.
 

madshi

Active Member
I'd be interested in a box which does HDMI with HDCP -> DVI without HDCP, are there such boxes still available, too?

But: Aren't all these boxes in danger of stopping to work sooner or later? I mean won't new devices "disable" the HDCP chips in these converter boxes?

Thanks!
 

Nic Rhodes

Distinguished Member
Yes the Dtronics box, most reliable of my 'clutch'. There is also a DVI to DVI Dtronics one which I like but I suspect that will have similar 'changes'.

Madshi, I don't know one with exactly that spec you 'want' but this is an HDMI in, VGA plus audio out and may interest some. Quality unknown.

http://www.keene.co.uk/cgi-bin/bigcodesearch.pl?CP262H

Yes there is a chance that any box could be disable but we are again in realms of theory over practice. The chips used in these boxes apparently came from 'approved sources'...
 

madshi

Active Member
@Nic, DVI with HDCP -> DVI without HDCP would be fine, of course, too. Are those still available? Where? Thanks!

@cwick, if I use the box just for sat receiver / broadcasting, am I safe then?
 

madshi

Active Member
cwick said:
No idea mate :) At a guess I'd say if off-air stuff is HDCP protected then it too can contain a revocation list, so not safe. Don't know if it's ever been used though (hell, it might not even work - the industry has a great record of talking up these protection mechanisms, which then fail spectacularly in the field !).
HDCP is a copy protection on uncompressed video data. Broadcasting is done in MPEG2/H.264 compressed form. I'm sure that broadcasting is not done with HDCP. I believe broadcasting is done with a very simple "this is protected" flag inside. The receivers then later add HDCP on the uncompressed video stream, if this copy protection flag is set. So I think I've just answered my own question: With broadcasting I should be safe! :)
 

cwick

Active Member
Nah, I don't buy it. It depends on the source. SkyHD will be wrapped in DRM, for example, and I wouldn't be suprised if that could revoke rogue IDs one way or another.

I doubt you'll get a definitive answer one way or the other though. Certainly not from me anyway, I'm just guessing :)

See, I was even wrong about revocation - it can nuke your device ... or at least Engadget think it can ... here
 

Nic Rhodes

Distinguished Member
Madshi

the DVI in and out (without) I get from Dtronics DVI 'distribution' amplifier, 1 DVI in 2 DVI out, I think the model number is something like DD12? You would have to check this, I suspect the likes of Digitalconnections etc woud sell this and others obviously. I do find that I prefer to use the VGA output however, excellent DACs in the box, almost a match for my scaler. I let all the scaler do all the HDCP stuff and then have switchable analogue outputs, either direct from scaler or HDCP difital output to the Dtronics DVI to VGA box. This just provides the analogue output of the digital input and even uses the same CRT memories.

I don't believe the keys will be revoked just because the display is 'old' and people use these boxes, the outcry would be commercial suicide. They will be revoked I believe is someone tries to do serious pirating. But a single use guy who just wants to use his CRT projector etc is not really who they are out to target. Could be wrong but I think there needs to be common sense here but buyer beware.
 

cwick

Active Member
Nic Rhodes said:
I don't believe the keys will be revoked just because the display is 'old' and people use these boxes, the outcry would be commercial suicide.

Unfortunately the software owners have already proven that commercial suicide is preferable to them than any risk of piracy. Witness suing 8 year old girls, grandmothers etc. Or Sonys lovely backdoor rootkit infection on their music CDs.

Sadly good sense, respect for your customer and DRM don't seem to go hand-in-hand.
 

Nic Rhodes

Distinguished Member
we will see, with all my fixes here there has always been a back up plan so even if the keys are revoked I can continue to watch HD.
 

rigman

Well-known Member
There are a few other sources for these boxes other than Dtrovision. Just go to the avsforum. Nick have you seen any of the other versions working i.e.moomes.

I am particularly interested in one for my Barco which is made by a guy in France and just plugs straight into the back of the PJ. The guy is currently working on a batch for Sony projectors and when finished will start on a new Barco batch. I will buy one then.
 

Baggy

Well-known Member
rigman said:
There are a few other sources for these boxes other than Dtrovision. Just go to the avsforum. Nick have you seen any of the other versions working i.e.moomes.

I am particularly interested in one for my Barco which is made by a guy in France and just plugs straight into the back of the PJ. The guy is currently working on a batch for Sony projectors and when finished will start on a new Barco batch. I will buy one then.

Did you get your name down for the next batch?
He was recently taking orders via AVS.
 

rigman

Well-known Member
No he said he would send me an email when he was starting them. Will take a look on avs, not been there for a while.

Moome has stated it will be another month before his next batch is ready for sale. His box is also a transcoder but is s bit more expensive although cheap for what it does I suppose.
 

Nic Rhodes

Distinguished Member
I haven't seen moomes but do have other boxes here and the DTronics was the best. I don't expect it will be too long before these other boxes are also 'warned' and I therefore feel that those who are interested in aquiring one should think about doing it now, leave it a month and I fear it will be too late.
 

Baggy

Well-known Member
I think he's making them soon and he's getting a list together of who wants a Barco DVI unit.
 

madshi

Active Member
Nic Rhodes said:
the DVI in and out (without) I get from Dtronics DVI 'distribution' amplifier, 1 DVI in 2 DVI out, I think the model number is something like DD12? You would have to check this, I suspect the likes of Digitalconnections etc woud sell this and others obviously.
Do you mean this one?

http://www.digitalconnection.com/products/video/ddd12p.asp

But digitalconnection is a US store, right? Do they ship to us Europeans?

Nic Rhodes said:
I do find that I prefer to use the VGA output however, excellent DACs in the box, almost a match for my scaler. I let all the scaler do all the HDCP stuff and then have switchable analogue outputs, either direct from scaler or HDCP difital output to the Dtronics DVI to VGA box. This just provides the analogue output of the digital input and even uses the same CRT memories.
Yeah, but I need custom timings for my plasma. So the VGA output would probably not be flexible enough for me.
 

Nic Rhodes

Distinguished Member
Yes that is the one I have, mine strips, but as to whether it will help with custom timings, I am not sure. I have generally found custom timings better on VGA inputs so I suspect your system is 'more' specialised than most. I know the 'pain' :) I fould take more advice before any purchase as it sounds like you requirements are very specialised here.
 

madshi

Active Member
I think my requirements are not *that* special. I have an external video processor which I've connected via VGA to my plasma. Now if I use that DTronics DVI -> VGA box, I'm losing the ability to do custom VGA timing (as far as I understand it, at least), so I'd probably lose 1:1 pixel mapping. So that doesn't work for me. But I could easily put the DVI -> DVI box in front of the video processor. Understand?

Has any of you bought from DigitalConnection yet? Do they ship to Europe? What kind of taxes come on top of the prices?

Thanks!
 

Nic Rhodes

Distinguished Member
I think you would be pleasantly surprized by the DVI / VGA box. Timings are basically passed through (which is why I like it). Ie digital in just get converted to analogue out. On my CRT it even runs on the same memory it is that close.

I will PM you some more details.

DC will ship to europe no roblem, you may find local stockis as well (mine came from Lectropacks or Keene or someone like that).
 

Nic Rhodes

Distinguished Member
Mine do, re stripping

Current DVI->VGA NO
Old DVI->VGA YES (Look for old stock like CRT projectors)
DD12 DVI distibutor (mine does but is a year old but I found compatibility not nearly as good as the VGA output box)
 

tryingtimes

Well-known Member
when you say compatibility - do you meant the output or the input?
i.e.
You've got lots of sources and only some work?
or
They all go through, but the DVI output isn't the same as input?
or
Something else :D
 

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