Answered HDBaseT Matrix

Discussion in 'Cables & Switches' started by JokerJack, Feb 17, 2016.

  1. JokerJack

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    hi - I am in the middle of an extension and am currently wiring up 2 cat6 cables to each room, I want to use a matrix to share 4 devices to 6 tv's and have one or two questions.

    1. Any recommendations on manafracractures
    2. Can you get 4x6 or will I need an 4x8 matrix
    3. Can you switch the input on the matrix from each tv/room using an harmony ir remote
    4. Do they support 4K and HDR, I guess these need to be hdmi 2 and hdcp 2.2?
    5. Is HDBaseT Lite a possibility, what's the difference between full and lite
    6. I have a dedicated cinema room in my log cabin, it's about 80 foot from the source so need a good matrix, will this be a problem. I do already use an hdbaset extender from the living room with no issues but not sure if this distance will be ok using a matrix

    Think that covers it for now, thanks in advance
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2016
  2. Best Answer:
    Post #2 by Joe Fernand, Feb 18, 2016 (1 points)
  3. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    Best Answer
    2. There may be a 4x6 on the market or you may need to go 4x8 or even 8x8 if you want particular features/brand.

    3. That will depend on the Feature set of the Matrix. Ideally you want 'routed' IR so that you only talk to the Matrix plus the selected Source from the Zone you are viewing it in and where required control more than one of the same Source from different Zones.

    4. You have to be careful when using the term '4K'. Most HDBT kit supports 2160p30 with HDCP 2.0 - some kit manufacturers have support for 2160p60 with HDCP 2.2 though with some limitations on Chroma Sampling modes! HDR is unlikely at present.

    4K UHD with HDCP 2.2 is going to require careful signal management through a Matrix if you don't have 4K UHD with HDR support on all Displays!

    5. HDBT 'lite' is a term the industry has coined to differentiate between HDBT and HDBT 5Play - 5Play offers you the full suite of possibilities Inc 10/100 Ethernet and 100m vs. no 10/100 and 70m for the standard (lite) chip set. For most Residential systems HDBT (Lite) is deal.

    6. 80' is not a problem assuming you are using a decent solid core, non-CCA CAT6 cable and decent termination.

    You don't mention an AVR, what you plan audio wise in each Zone, what Sources you are catering for and how many of your Displays will be 4K UHD with HDR - that will determine how you configure the system.

    Joe
     
  4. JokerJack

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    Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions Joe. My environment will consist of mixed display units to be honest.
    The Cabin has a 1080p projector with 7.1 (currently using an anthem AVR,although i do want to upgrade for atoms but currently using all other sound formats), might go down the 4k route but won't be for a while to be honest.
    Living room1 will be a new OLED 4k UHD with HDR once the extension is complete with no AVR.
    Living room 2 is TV is currently a 4k display (older one so no HDR) with no AVR
    Bedroom 1 TV will be a 4k with no AVR
    Bedroom 2 TV is 1080p with no AVR
    GYM TV will be a 4k with no AVR

    Sources:
    2 x Virgin boxes - non 4k at the moment
    1 x HTPC
    1 x Blu-ray (will upgrade this to 4k.. if this takes off)

    You mentioned routed IR, can this be done via the same cat6 cable as the TV single? I would like to use a harmony but guess i can uses an app to control it if i have too.
    I guess the HDCP 2.2 requirement is to try and future proof the environment, i know i can just get a 1080p matrix as the only source will really be the new blu-ray to the living and virgin / sky box (if they ever start using 4k). The idea of the matrix is to hide all the equipment as i don't want to see any of it.

    Thanks again :)
     
  5. Member 319784

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    Hi @JokerJack - as you've pointed out you don't have any 4K sources with HDCP 2.2.... yet . So you could in theory go for a 1080p matrix. Your TVs are a mixed set up and this can often pose some troubles for trying to distribute across a matrix... essentially you'll always have to set any source to output 1080p if you want to be able to watch it on all of your TVs--- you need to set it to have the "lowest common denominator" that each TV can accept so in this instance 1080p.

    I have a couple of HDanywhere options you might be interested that could work for you- the first is an mHub 2K 4x4 with 4 mirrored HDMI outputs.... this could send up to 4 sources to 8 HDTVs and maxs out at 1080p with no 4k / HDCP 2.2 support. You can deliver your sources to 4 zones using Cat cabling and an extra 4 TVs using high-speed HDMI cables. So if you need a 4x6 you could use 4 Cat cabling zones and connect the final 2 HDTVs using HDMI cables. However, the picture shown on these TVs will always "mirror" two of the Cat outputs... so if you connect the fifth and sixth TVs to mirrored HDMI outputs 1 and 2... they will mirror what is being watched on Cat output 1 and 2. Does that make sense? This is not a HDBaseT system - it uses single wire technology. An mHub 2K 4x4 is £999 and an mHub 2K 8x8 is £2499-- I can offer you 10% off this price because you're an AVForums member.

    If it's HDBaseT you're after we do an mHub 4K 4x4 with HDCP 2.2 support (in stock and shipping now). This has two mirrored HDMI outputs again which would allow you to deliver HDTV to up to 6 TVs (the last two using HDMI cables). It has HDCP 2.2 for devices like the new Amazon Fire TV. It also supports the Full HDBaseT 5-Play feature set Joe mentioned earlier- video, multichannel audio, 10/100 Ethernet, PoE, control (inc. IR) over a single Cat cable. There is also an mHub 4K 8x8 available.

    If you've got any questions give me a call on 01684 576 348 and I'll be happy to chat through any queries you might have.


     
  6. Member 581642

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    Hi

    We have a range of matrixes 4x4, 6x6, 8x6 and 8x8 all HDBaseT and come as complete sets with all the receivers , IR pieces , Zone remotes etc

    HDBaseT
     
  7. Member 581642

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    Yes the HdBaseT Cat6 cable carries 2 way IR for controlling both the matrix and the source you are viewing, so you can use the harmony remote
     
  8. JokerJack

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    Thanks for confirming :) i have now asked the builders to put in some HDMI cables to the one 4k UHD device, that way i can use a standard matrix. the build is about 2 months from completing yet so won't be ordering anything just yet. Just wanted to make sure i can do what i wanted. Thanks again and will keep you in mind when pricing up kit.
     
  9. JokerJack

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    Thank you for the above, i do like the look of the mHub 4x4 HDBaseT matrix. If i used a mirrored output does both devices need to be switched on, i.e. both TV's display the image of can i have one set off. I'm guessing the TV using the mirrored output wouldn't have the IR and controls but that wouldn't be a problem as i could just use an app to control the inputs, just wanted to understand how the mirroring works. Is it just like a HDMI splitter for example?
     
  10. Member 581642

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    Most of our HDBaseT Matrixes also have mirrored outputs.

    Both TVs do not need to be switched on but yes you are correct there is no IR control at the Mirrored HDMI TV location.

    Yes just like a HDMI splitter
     
  11. JokerJack

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    Thanks Seb - I will be in touch over the next month.
     
  12. Member 319784

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    Hi @JokerJack yep so there is not IR control at the mirrored outputs. 1 solution is to keep the matrix "local" aka nearby to 1 TV... so connect 1 local HDMI port to your TV and then hide the matrix with your source devices in a cupboard or entertainment cabinet underneath...if you're happy to do that. Our app is currently undergoing beta trial with a private test group (announced today). So right now it switches like a treat but we are still adding and fine tuning source control this will likely be developed throughout 2016 / 17. When is your project due to finish? You could look into irule or demo pad and using global cache device ..... give us a call if you've got any questions. Ask to speak to Joe or Dee!
     
  13. Joe Fernand

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    Builders - if possible install cable ways (conduit) to allow you to change/replace cables at a later date.

    Builders - ensure they understand HDMI and CAT cables require careful handling.

    CAT cables - ensure you go with a solid core, non-CCA CAT6. Do not let the builder spec/supply the CAT cable without you first off confirming what they plan to supply (or risk getting cheap crap - CCA is everywhere at present).

    System - I would consider your Living Room 1. as 'stand-alone' in terms of UHD BD playback with multi-channel audio, you can still have a connection from a 'Matrix' from your shared sources but some things are going to be far simpler if they are a direct connection in that Zone.

    System - the Cabin is going to be a problem too for multi-channel audio, again a mix of local and distributed (via the Matrix) Sources is likely the way to go.

    The Cabin - where does the AVR live?

    Gym - we usually have a Soundbar or budget 2.1 system as TV Spks don't tend to deliver a decent enough sound if you are viewing fitness Vids.

    Matrix - mirrored Outputs are a pain. Not having consistent control in all Zones puts folk off using the system and in the long term having to watch what someone else is watching becomes a hassle if there are a few folk in the house.

    HDCP 2.2 - it doesn't look to me like you require it across the distributed system and for it to work effectively all of your Displays would have to be UHD 4K with HDCP 2.2 and HDR, otherwise you require a Control system to set a load of rules about who can view what, where and in what format otherwise as soon as an UHD 4K with HDCP 2.2 Source sees a non compliant Display on the Matrix it will drop its Output down to 1080p.

    Joe
     
  14. JokerJack

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    Thanks again for your advise joe, I have setup the main living room and cabin as both using matrix and stand alone devices.. All the remaining tv's around the house and gym will use just the matrix. Won't be purchasing any hardware for at least 2 months as want the house finished first.

    The avr lives in the cabin will another HTPC and blu-ray player anyway, this also uses a hdmi extender from the living room to get the virgin box down there.
     
  15. Viking272

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    Hi JokerJack, interested in what decision you went for in the end?
     
  16. JokerJack

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    Hi @Viking272 - I ended up getting the mhub4k which serves 3 TV's around the house, ended up getting SKyQ so have a mini in the cabin (which is direct) I do have the skyQ outputting 4k along with the Nvidia Shield as well. For HDR content I use the built in apps on the TV, I did get a couple of spare HDMI leads installed from the utility room (where the devices are) to TV for when I want to use a 4k Blu-ray player.
     

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