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HD5/HD5H - Repeat even with Repeat Off

Discussion in 'Headphones, Earphones & Portable Music' started by shadowritten, Jul 27, 2005.

  1. shadowritten

    shadowritten
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    This is an edit of my original post, which can be found below (I've left it in for clarification and continuity with subsequent postings)

    UPDATE August 2nd 2005: Please see Post #17 by Sasso later in this thread which explains why the Repeat function doesn't APPEAR to operate correctly - many thanks.


    As we're all aware by now, the Sony HD5/HD5H is a great player, but suffers from one or two glitches (I'm being generous here - I appreciate cracked buttons are far more than a mere glitch!).

    There is one more problem which I've discovered, and I'd like to enlist you all in helping me establish how widespread it is (or isn't, as the case may be).

    I recently discovered that the REPEAT function does not operate as one might expect. And I seem not to be the only one. Without going over old ground, I've devised a simple test which I'd like you to try, please, and post your findings here. This is important, as I intend to report the findings to Sony, should these prove significant.

    PLEASE DO THE FOLLOWING EXACTLY:

    1) Set your player to normal playback (i.e. not ONE SONG, or SHUFFLE, etc)

    2) Set the UNIT function to ON

    3) Set REPEAT to OFF

    Now, select just one album on your player, and press PLAY/PAUSE. Allow the album to play FROM THE VERY FIRST TRACK for a few seconds, then advance through its tracks until you reach the start of the final track. DO NOT advance beyond the final track, please.

    While the final track is playing, press and hold the RIGHT ARROW button to fast forward to ALMOST the end of the track - then take your finger off the button and let the track play. JUST BEFORE IT REACHES THE END, press and hold STOP, and let the player power off.

    Now, press play, and let the player power up and resume playing the final seconds of the last track of your selected test album. Watch carefully what happens after the final second of this final track is played: IT SHOULD AUTOSTOP, and all playback should cease.

    If this is the case, please DO NOT report findings here - your player is operating exactly as you would expect.

    If, however, your player begins playing back the first track of the album again, PLEASE PUT A POST HERE DETAILING WHICH MODEL YOU OWN (HD5 or HD5H).

    I will explain why I'm being so precise later. For now, I'd be enormously grateful if you would all take part in this experiment.

    As an incentive, this may lead to a firmware update from Sony at some later stage!




    Below, my original post. Please disregard everything I have written on this subject EXCEPT the above-detailed posting.

    My thanks to you all in advance.

    ________________________________________________

    ORIGINAL POSTING:

    Something I've discovered that may be unique to my machine (i.e. a glitch, God forbid!), or a universal occurence.

    Let's say you're playing an album in normal playback mode, with Repeat set to OFF. And let's say you press STOP or PLAY/PAUSE, and let the device power down. When you switch back on and resume play from exactly the same position, you'll be expecting the album to auto-stop when it reaches the end of the last track. Only, in my case at least, this doesn't happen - playback merely goes into a loop of the whole album again. But only after powering down then going back on to resume play, you understand?

    Anyone else noticed this 'false' Repeat function?
     
  2. Sasso

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    I just checked it out and it seems that when you select to play a single album it repeats the album over and over even with repeat off (without turning the player off too). Which is strange. It does the same thing with repeat on.
    However if you select an artist with repeat off it plays the albums of the artist and loops again through the albums....
    Whats the use of turning repeat on then?


    AHA! I found that if you turn OFF "UNIT" then it doesn't repeat, it moves on to the next album even if its a different artist. So setting UNIT to ON restricts playing to a particular....um....unit....and repeats it. eg a particular Artist (plays all artist's albums normally and loops) or a particular Album (Plays all tracks normally and loops), or even select a Genre and it loops the Genre (where as unit off it will just go to the next Genre when finished).

    So setting UNIT to ON also behaves as a repeat. (Well i havn't figured the difference to setting on UNIT and REPEAT)

    I'd have to say that im very impressed with the SHUFFLE feature on this player....you can almost shuffule what you want, in any way you want!!! Shuffles better than the Ipod Shuffle, LOL.

    Hope that solves your problem :)
     
  3. shadowritten

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    Ta, Sasso - I'll give it a whirl ...
     
  4. shadowritten

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    Well, I can now report that either I've got a minor glitch in my HD5H, or I've discovered a software peculiarity.

    As described, I'm playing an album, with Repeat set OFF - so at the end of the album, that's where the player stops playing. UNLESS ... I power down anywhere within the album WHILE IT'S PLAYING, then resume playing after powering on. In this instance, the players IGNORES the Repeat OFF command, and simply loops album playback ad infinitum.

    Does the power off override the Repeat command for the currently playing album? Do I care? Answer to first question: dunno. Answer to second: no! If this is the system's only glitch (so far discovered, anyway), then it's one I can live with. Has an advantage, though - you're walking along the street and your album's about to end, you don't want to take out your player and risk dropping it, so you just let it loop.

    Every cloud has a silver lining, and all that ...

    As for Sasso's UNIT thing above, this is just a playback parameter setting which seems to have no bearing on my 'quirk' - which I refrain from calling a 'problem', as frankly, it isn't to me. But it would be nice to know I'm not alone. Any HD5/HD5H owners wanna try the following and post results:

    Play back an album with Repeat set to OFF, and Unit set to ON.

    Seconds from the end of the final track, press and hold Stop to power down.

    Now power back on, resume play and see if the album loops back to start playing track 1 instead of auto-stopping.


    I await your finds ... :D
     
  5. Sasso

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    Yeah thats strange how yours only loops if you shut it down. Mine loops all the time! and its Annoying....you should be able to choose if you want to loop....with the repeat function.....so I emailed Sony (UK).

    I too would be interested to know how other people's behaves.

    Here is part of my email:
    Explanation through example:
    "eg. If I wanted to play an album and then when it finishes have the player stop and turn off, I would set UNIT to ON and select to play the album. But instead of stopping after the last track of the album is played it repeats the album from the beginning again. This is wrong! It should only loop the album if Unit is ON and ‘Repeat’ is ALSO on."

    A few other things I addressed/suggested:

    1. “Double Shuffle’ playmode. Shuffling Tracks in albums and then randomly selecting the next Album.

    2. Unit ON also repeats. It should not repeat unless repeat is selected.

    3. Albums, Artists, Genre, etc should be bookmarkable or playlists should be able to be created on the player.

    4. Auto off should be adjustable. Or be optionally disabled. (It keeps turning off on me and I have to keep turning it on which wastes more power). And its annoying.

    5. Back Light turns on when a button is pressed even when HOLD is ON. Wasting battery unnecessarily.

    If you want to add anything just post it....this is just what I found needed attention. Especially 2, 4 and 5. (And I asked them to put it in a firmware upgrade.) If they refuse the important ones I will buy an Ipod.... :suicide:
     
  6. Sasso

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    ok I take it back.....It stopped after I played an album with UNIT ON and Repeat off.....and yep surely after i turned it off just before the last song ends (make sure you pause it first) and turned it on again it repeated. what the fudge??.....they probably all do it....but confirmation is welcome. Ok it makes my email look dumb....but its partially right.......and its still a problem that needs to be fixed.

    Do you think that when it shuts down it forgets things? But it remembers the track and position??
     
  7. shadowritten

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    Don't sweat it, Sasso - and thanks for proving I'm not going insane!

    Just needs a minor FW tweak or two. You know Sony - they'll catch up in the end. At least it's a relatively minor (and only slightly irritating) quirk. Do bear in mind this only occurs after powering down DURING playback - otherwise, all is fine.

    Roll on FW 1.3 ...
     
  8. shadowritten

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    Thinking about it - and not wishing to apologise for Sony's software 'error'(?) - no claim is made in the manual for Repeat OFF continuing to function NORMALLY after powering off/on during playback. We expect it to, naturally, but they've not made a false claim about it ...
     
  9. shadowritten

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    Okay, I've done some extensive tests this afternoon, and at the risk of being a bore on this subject, I can give you my findings in a concise (and seemingly definitive) statement:

    Repeat OFF ONLY works during normal playback, with Unit set to ON. Whether you've selected an album, artist, genre or every damn track on your player, you won't get repeat problems UNLESS you press PAUSE and then leave this to switch automatically to STOP after 2 minutes and then to power off 30 seconds later; or you press STOP, which causes a power down situation after 30 secs; or you deliberately power down the player by holding STOP. EVERY TIME WITHOUT FAIL after a power down following play in Normal Playback mode, the Repeat OFF function is ignored, and only kicks in again when you select a new playback parameter (i.e. artist, album, genre, etc.)

    Sony, we know you read these threads - so can we please have a little Firmware fix? Pretty please? Thank you.
     
  10. caaralagueva

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    Shadowritten - I've tested my HD5 in the same way and this does not happen on mine. I definitely have Unit ON and Repeat OFF. I choose to play an album and it stops both if it's just been directly chosen as soon as I turn player on BUT ALSO if I power off the player and then power it back on again.

    I'm 99% certain that I'm doing the 'test' as described by Shadowritten but definitely not achieving the same results. It seems as if my Repeat OFF function does work as it should.
     
  11. shadowritten

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    Many thanks!

    So, a glitch after all, perhaps? Sasso and me are experiencing the same problem, caaralagueva not so.

    Anyone else wanna try?
     
  12. shadowritten

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    My email to Sony technical support:

    Hi

    I'm experiencing a technical glitch on my player. In short, the Repeat OFF function works in normal playback mode, auto-stopping at the end of a Unit (i.e. album, artist, etc.). BUT ... if the device is powered down during normal playback, then powered up to resume playback, the device does not auto-stop at the end of a Unit, but instead loops to the beginning and continues playing - which it shouldn't do with Repeat set to OFF.

    Any advice please? Many thanks.


    I'll keep you posted.
     
  13. shadowritten

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    Before this drops off page 1, any takers wanna see if they're getting similar problems (or not, as the case may be)?
     
  14. shadowritten

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    Promised I'd keep you all updated, so here's the bewildering reply from Sony (DVD camcorder, anyone?):

    Thank you for your recent enquiry.

    It is only possible to delete the last scene that you have recorded on the disc and not any scenes prior to the last recording you have done. For information on deleting the last scene please refer to page 38 of the users manual.

    By way of explanation, the purpose of our DVD camcorders is to provide the maximum convenience to customers who simply want to play back their home videos, without fuss, on their DVD player. Your camcorder is marketed for ease of use and therefore does not include PC editing packages. These options are normally discussed with the retailer prior to purchase, or with ourselves. Having said this, I fully appreciate that you are disappointed. I must point out, however, that editing can be performed on the DVD camcorder itself using DVD-RW discs formatted in VR mode.

    Having said this, it might be possible to transfer your footage, via the supplied analogue audio/video cables, to your computer. I must point out that your computer will require an analogue video capture card and video editing software to be installed. You can then connect via the composite audio/video connections to the capture card.

    Sony does not manufacture analogue video capture cards or video editing software and would therefore suggest that you contact your PC manufacturer or PC dealer for a recommendation.

    I hope this information is of assistance.


    Of assistance? No, I think not. Below, my response:

    Thanks very much for your detailed reply - it'll be of huge use, no doubt, should I ever decide to buy a Sony DVD camcorder.

    I think what's happened is that your online enquiry system has fouled up. I sent a query about a fault on my NW-HD5H, which causes the Repeat OFF function not to work as it should. Any chance you ever received this, or do I need to send a detailed email outlining the problem?

    Only hope there isn't another Mr ... out there baffled by a reply about his non-existant HD5H.

    Yours (confused)
     
  15. shadowritten

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    Hello everyone.

    I have substantially edited the start of this thread. Please return to the beginning and read my revision.

    My thanks to you all for your support.
     
  16. Pyrobob83

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    Tried it following the outlined instructions above and it DOES loop around to the beginning of the album rather than stopping.

    I haven't read the whole thread in detail yet, but could it be that turning it off resets a counter or something that indicates where in the list you started? Ie, if you have an album with 5 songs and you power up and play the first two - switch it off and back on again and play the last 3 songs, it thinks you've only heard the last 3 so loops around and plays the other two? Just a thought.

    EDIT:
    I have the HD5H btw.
     
  17. Sasso

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    I think I figured it out!

    It does not in fact loop the album!

    As Pyrobob83 suggested it actually RESETS.

    So say you have a 5 song album. Normally you'l play the album with 'Unit ON' and 'Repeat OFF' when the album reaches the end of the last track (5) it will stop and eventually shut off.
    BUT if you turn it off at say middle of track 5 and then turn it back on, it now thinks that track 5 is where you're starting from. (You get the same effect if you select a particular track in the album in the first place) So now the player thinks track 5 is the start so it gives the illusion of 'Repeating' the album because it goes back to track 1 again. At this stage people have been skipping to the end again to see if it repeats again which it will but for a different reason.
    In actual fact the player will start from track 5 and END at the end of TRACK 4!!!. So it basically plays the WHOLE album but Starting from where you switched it off......IT FORGETS where its up to.....

    ...this However is quite logical! You would expect that if you play a certain album then switched it off for the night and switched it on again it would play the full album instead of playing 1 song then turning off.

    This also occurs with 'SHUFFLE TRACKS' and 'Unit ON'. If you select that 5 track album to shuffle it will play all the tracks and when it gets to the last one is hasnt played it will stop. But if you turn it off the memory of the tracks that it has played is lost. SO turning it back on will result in a different shuffle of the album but Starting from the track that you stopped the player on. IT will then stop when all the tracks are played.

    In short: With unit ON and Repeat OFF. If you stop the player in the middle of the album or song and turn it off, when you turn it on again it will start from THAT point and play the album until all tracks have been played then stop.

    This wouldn't be such a problem. BUT I think the real 'fault' here is that there is no way you can pause the player for a long period of time and come back to a player that is still ON. This means if you want to keep the information of what tracks have been played (NEEDED for shuffle) you have to leave the player playing while you are away!....thats stupid!.....
    Almost all music players I have used or owned actually pauses and STAYS on pause if you press the 'pause' button.
    The HD5 will eventually TURN OFF if you press pause and leave it!.

    This is the source of the problem. If the pause button acted normally then we could pause the player and come back to the same shuffle or same album playing order and memory.

    - SONY you MUST fix the PAUSE button to allow it to stay on for as long as the user wants. It defeats the purpose of having a pause button if it does the same thing as the stop button. If you are worried about battery running out then DONT, let the user be worried because he most likely rather keep the player on to prevent this resetting of information.
    The player should only turn off if it is stopped or if the user turns it off manually holding the stop button.

    I urge people to try it incase Its just my player. That is play an album with repeat OFF and UNIT ON and stop at a certain track. Then turn the player off and turn it on again by pressing the play button. Then skip all the tracks to the track before the one you paused it on. Fast forward it (Pausing then fast forwarding is much quicker) and then play it just before the end.....it should stop after the song.

    thanks
     
  18. shadowritten

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    Sasso, you're never gonna believe this, but I worked this out for myself on the train into work this morning!! Nonetheless, HUGE thanks for making it clear here. And yes: SONY, GET THIS FIXED PLEASE!!

    Of course, if anyone has any different experiences, do please post them here.

    PS: The HD5 manual is VERY vague on the whole repeat function thing - not surprising really, having discovered how bizarrely it works ...
     
  19. Sasso

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    No probs........It just gets stranger and stranger......when will the discoveries ever end?
    I would have to agree, the manual doesn't address this situation.
    There are so many things we have asked sony to fix.....thats not a good thing...and I wonder are they actually going to do anything about it. If they don't then don't bother getting a sony again....still no reply to my email.
    There needs to be a Sony representative on the forums to provide feedback to our feedback.

    Can you believe it I now have dust under the top of my screen....it came through the gap between the red metal and the silver plastic.....if you blow into the gap the screen fogs up....and goes away but the dust remains. Thus further proving its poor quality......but ill get them to clean it when i get the buttons changed....or IF that is.
     
  20. shadowritten

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    I have had a reply about the repeat thing - they're looking it to it and have given me a reference number.

    I'll keep you posted ...
     
  21. Pyrobob83

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    Shoots and scores! ;)

    I agree with the pause thing - but it'd be nice if it remembered even with switching the player off. That would help with the problem a few of us noticed about certain songs playing more than once in a short time when on SHUFFLE.

    As far as it goes, it's all pretty minor stuff to me - I'm still happy with the player.
     
  22. shadowritten

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    Agree, minor stuff - still a great player!

    And oh yes, this does resolve the shuffle issue from another thread!
     
  23. Sasso

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    Yeah good job guys, I discovered this while brainstorming just before I went to sleep (i usually do this), tried the idea the next day. Then I saw that you had posted the theory. Just giving you credit also.

    Its not that minor, since the player is so small (and expensive) every little thing on it counts.
    For something to be successful to the fullest extent it must be perfect in every way. Including not turning off when you press pause. And im sure their goal is to make it successful. For a device so expensive you should expect near to perfection.

    In my opinion if the product isn't brilliant upon release then its a waste, Sony wasted the opportunity. They probably rushed the design and making of the player, and the software. Sony now have to make up for it all but its too late, first impressions stay. And where are all the accessories? And advertising? every single person that sees it asks "what is that?" and I say, "Its a Sony HD5 hard disk player", and they go "Its a what?" then you have to say "Its LIKE and Ipod" And they all go "OHHHHH, how many songs?"
    This shows perfectly what Sony are doing wrong....if nobody knows about the product then who's going to buy it?? I got the HD5 from my local computer and AV electrical store and I asked them how many they had bought........ONLY 6!!! Obviously the demand wasn't expected to be high.....There wasn't even an Ipod on display probably because they were sold out....there was an entire wall dedicated to Ipod accessories.
    And on the store's behalf the glass display had a big sign saying "Mrobe now only $x" COVERING up the view of the HD5 which was the best looking player in the cabinet by far! Just for Sony I actually took off the poster and moved it over something else....

    just some thoughts...
     
  24. shadowritten

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    Quote by Sasso: Just for Sony I actually took off the poster and moved it over something else....

    You crack me up!! Am still smiling about that now.

    Totally agree about the 'near prefection' thing, but I guess what qualifies in this respect is down to the individual. To me, personally, this 'glitch' DOES mean the HD5 is 'near perfect'. Fix it, and from my POV, the player would be perfect.

    Although, as a metaphysical thinker of sorts, I don't believe in 'perfection' being achievable in matter ... but that's for another forum entirely!!

    What matters most is that, for many of us, the HD5 is proving to be a damn good buy. As for people not knowing about it, why is there so much talk about it on the Net - beyond the narrow confines of this forum? And why is demand THROUGH THE ROOF for the leather cases?

    Again, just some thoughts ...
     
  25. Sasso

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    Hehe, I was hoping none of the staff saw me. I was going to tell them off for it but thought otherwise, they are less likely to notice this way.

    Yeah exactly, perfection is a subjective term...and because of this to be near perfect it must meet the desired features/ requirements of the majority of people. If they are "Attacking Ipod" then they must meet the requirements of Ipod users and further. It isn't a disadvantage to someone who doesn't need a certain feature that is included for someone who does. Yet they are both happy. For example, if shuffle wasn't included, some people wouldn't care, but many others would, and adding the shuffle feature doesn't make the non shuffle users unhappy, but it certainly makes everyone else happy and you never know they might oneday need shuffle and luckily its there, making them happier. So its like a bonus.....having a bigger potential buyer list.
    Just think of everything you would like the player to do or have. Now think of what it does do/have...there is a big difference isn't there. And its possible some things arn't included not because they can't be but because the makers don't want them to be. There is no optical or line in recording on the HD5, it would SOO much better if it did and I wouldn't mind having a slightly bigger player as a compromise but Sony probably don't include it because they want to sell more MiniDisks....So the design isn't necessarily based on the users best interests, its manipulation just to make money....what a shame that that is the primary objective of making products these days.

    Yes the HD5 for people may be a very good buy, but thats because they don't have a choice! No HDD player has it all! so people have to compromise and the HD5 or Ipod might just happens to be that compromise....whether or not the buyers are aware of the situation.

    People on the internet are only a tiny fraction of the potential buyers, just think of everyone you know and think of how many of them surf the internet looking for DAP's and participating on forums. Remember its the WORLD WIDE web....so its everyone in the world, and considering how many potential buyers there are in the world, the number people you see surfing the net are extremely small. And even though alot of people have access to the net most of them wont even find themselves on a website about DAP's or whatever they might want but are not aware of it.

    People, however, watch alot of TV, and unlike the internet they are FORCED to watch everything displayed such as ads, it isn't hidden behind a hyperlink, its played during the gaps in their favourite TV show, and don't say, 'well in the ads i close my ears and eyes' because most people don't.

    Just look at Ipod's website http://www.apple.com/ipod/ or http://www.apple.com/ipod/color/ Firstly how easy is it to remember.....secondly look how good it makes the Ipod look, regardless of how it might perform.
    Now look at sony's (US)

    http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start;sid=M_YgelkNeWYgchviXrAqcRYASpWWzwLoZuM=?CategoryName=pa_DigitalMusicPlayers_Network&ProductSKU=NWHD5SILVER&Dept=audio&INT=sstyle-audio-deptfeature-NWHD5SILVER|sstyle:sy_dept_content_b:audio

    or click HERE

    Who the HELL is going to remember that!!!!
    Its got a nice little 3D thing, yes, but the rest is just a whole bunch of facts and figures pasted onto the page. Ipod actually speak to the reader in english! And have the features on the side.
    Just to outline the different advertising tactics...Ipod definately doing it for me.

    hmm....sorry for making that long.....just needed to get it off my chest...
     
  26. shadowritten

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    Bravo! Point made.

    Yes, Sony don't do a good enough job advertising. Why do I think this is? Arrogance. They're SONY, godammit!!

    Seriously though, would you want a lot of other people all trotting round town sporting the same player - like ... sorry to those this offends ... iPod sheep? (And please, iPod owners, don't lambast me for this. I love the clickwheel and some of the interface, including iTunes. But there are those who just go for looks, and it's these folk I'm referring to, not serious DAP lovers.)
     
  27. Sasso

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    lol, yes it certainly would annoy me if everyone owned a HD5, although Sony would love it. But there are advantages....such as the accessories.....thanks to all the users, Ipods are getting more and more accessories and they are becoming more available....I doubt I will ever be able to get the Sony Leather case for the HD5...it probably won't even make it to Australia, same with the 30gig version of the HD5......I have to find a shop OS to ship it here...and thats expensive! Unless you get it from Hong Kong or something....but still Id rather just go down the road. On the other hand If i had an ipod, i could get basically any accessory release plus lots of aftermarket parts as well.

    I love the HD5 for what it does, hate if for what it doesn't (Id love to erase the hates). But it annoys the crap out of me that you own such a good DAP (only relative) and nobody knows it exists!......Well actually i don't care when im listening to it because I know it sounds good and i chuckle at all those other DAP users who don't know any better.

    Shadowitten: "But there are those who just go for looks" They probably make up the majority of owners" and luckily for you i doubt any are reading this forum.

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    If you are happy with what you've got then GREAT! Don't let people take you down because if it....but then don't go telling off the people who expect more from it!
     
  28. shadowritten

    shadowritten
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    Sorry if I came across as ticking you off about expecting more from your player, Sasso - wasn't meant to sound that way, honest :oops:
     
  29. Sasso

    Sasso
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    nah nah you didnt tick me off, Im not talking about you....sorry I should have realised i quoted you.....I wasn't talking to anyone in particular just a general statement...

    I am enjoy having conversations with you and the other members of this forum...its a nice forum....compared to some others im participating in......:)

    You and I seem to to be the only few people who care about improving the HD5.....i agree with almost everything you post...sorry again its my bad....

    The reason I said that is because many of my friends tell me off for being a perfectionist or actually caring for quality and my standard of living. I am very stressed at the moment with my year12 final exams coming up and it just makes me angy that the majority of the people in the world don't care....theres nothing i can do about it but It won't stop me from trying. My apologies again....
     
  30. Hrochnick

    Hrochnick
    Active Member

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    Are you johann1979 in disguise? Or maybe his brother?
    Just kidding.
     

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