HD Panel Conspiracy Theory - Your Thoughts

Misty

Novice Member
Hi all, have an intresting one for you. I have recently sold my Panasonic TH-42PV500 as I have a Panasonic TH-42PX700 due in this week, so I have fitted as a temporary measure an old Panasonic 6 Series Pro Panel non HD. Out of curiosity I ran some pre recorded HD content through it and to my surprise I have found the results almost as good as an HD screen. It has taken me 3 days to discover the deficiencies of the 6 series panel over an HD panel and to be honest they are very marginal. So my question is; are we all being conned here by the manufacturers?

I am a very fussy TV watcher and also involved professionaly with Home Automation but I am; as a test going to run in my showroom an SD panel against an HD panel to see if my clients notice any major differnce. I will let you guys know the results. This discovery has not changed my mind in regards to my upcoming new toy but it certainly is food for thought if your budget does'nt permit an HD screen, just stick with a quality SD unit as the gains are only apparent if your used to the end result of the HD screen.

Sorry to ramble but me and a few other local dealers are starting to wonder if all that HD offers is near CRT quality but on large screens. My observations above would add credibility to this premis.
 

choddo2006

Distinguished Member
... if all that HD offers is near CRT quality but on large screens ...
Would that be so bad? Will certainly be interested to hear what you learn from your experiment.
 

gizlaroc

Distinguished Member
I bet 95% of users on this forum, who lets face it are probably more fussy than 99% of the population when it comes to picture quality, would have a hard time telling the difference between a 480p, 768p, and 1080p panel when fed with a 1080i HD source if everything else was equal, and by that I mean calibrated the same, processing the same etc.

Resolution can give you that extra 10%, but you need to get so much more right first, so yeah if you get everything else right then having the extra res is great, but don't go for a screen because of specs on paper.

The 6 series Panny commercial screen is awesome, the PW6 does have one flaw and that is banding issues, there is some posterization going on big time in some scenes, but apart from that I would still take it over any other brands so called HD Ready screen even for viewing HD material as the overall image is just so nice. I actually prefer it to the PV500 you were using, seems more analogue to me.


I have had the PW6 and the PHD6 on in the same room and hardly anyone could tell which was the HD res version until they got 3ft or so from it.
 

p203557

Active Member
Precisely the reason I'm sticking with my pwd6 for the moment! I only have one HD source to feed it anyway and although I've never had the chance to test it side by side some others have said it would outperform many HD panels when fed an SD signal. As 90% of the time I'm viewing SD (xbox 360 my only hd source) I'm more than happy with it and am still yet to be tempted into HD. Its obviously only a matter of time til I do but with 42" SD panels going second hand for the £350 ish mark there are some bargains out there.
 

Misty

Novice Member
Guys, I think what we are all saying here is what I used to say when I was involved in IT. Garbage in Garbage out. If you have a good HD Source - Sky HD on a good day!!! Then the results into a quality panel regardless of it being native SD, HD or even Full HD are so marginal that even the AV Fanatics out there & I count myself as one of them and proud of it, are very hard pressed to see the difference. My wife hit the nail on the head, she noticed tonight on Lost on Sky One HD that the solid colours in the background were grainy, where they had solid clarity last week on the PV500. She fights tooth and nail to admit it but I think I am turning her round to AV - Geekette in the making.

I will let you know how my sly test goes in the showroom but I think we all know what the outcome will be. If you tell-em it's HD they will be awe struck regardless of it being an HD or SD screen.

The real gains are to be had by the way when you pipe HD Source into projectors but thats a subject for a different forum and has been overly discussed already.
 

Neil Davidson

Well-known Member
AVForums Sponsor
The main thing this is showing is that market forces rather than performance benefits are driving the demand for "Full HD" panels.

A panel can't add detail so logically there should be little to choose between the SD and HD panel when viewing SD material. The flip side is that the SD panel can't show the extra detail of HD material.

When you look at the physics of what the eye can actually see you will note that from a typical viewing distance the benefits of 1080P on a 50" panel are negligible.

As noted above though, when moving up to projection screen sizes the differences do become more noticeable.

Neil
 

hornydragon

Distinguished Member
A PWD6 will **** all over many an HD panel feed her 720p and you laughing mate properly set up they knock spots off anything from Samsung or LG a good feed into a a good plasma looks awesome HD at the camera end is far more important than HD at the screen end. If i was you i would stick with the 6 and forget the Veira rubbish.........
 

The Gooner

Active Member
A PWD6 will **** all over many an HD panel feed her 720p and you laughing mate properly set up they knock spots off anything from Samsung or LG a good feed into a a good plasma looks awesome HD at the camera end is far more important than HD at the screen end. If i was you i would stick with the 6 and forget the Veira rubbish.........
oh now this puts me a dilema, i am on verge of changing tv for new 70 series viera, from above is this a waste on money then? Wont i benefit from HD with PS3 and blueray films?
 

Jonstone

Well-known Member
oh now this puts me a dilema, i am on verge of changing tv for new 70 series viera, from above is this a waste on money then? Wont i benefit from HD with PS3 and blueray films?

A lot will depend on what size screen you are changing too, and how far away you will be sitting (I know some people like to sit right in front of the screen when playing games for instance)

Its probably best if you go and see one in the flesh first with a PS3 as the source.

You may see some improvement due to the 70's ability to accept a 1080p source and the hdmi connection too.
 

ozzzy189

Distinguished Member
Hmm, ok hornydragon, i`m waiting for new pana pz700 or pio 508xd, I`m currently without a screen. What do you think i should do ? I hate not having a decent screen. i want to watch freeview, dvds and play 360, maybe buy into hddvd or bluray and hdtv in the future. I sit about 2-4 m away from the screen depending on what i`m playing or watching.
 

The Gooner

Active Member
A lot will depend on what size screen you are changing too, and how far away you will be sitting (I know some people like to sit right in front of the screen when playing games for instance)

Its probably best if you go and see one in the flesh first with a PS3 as the source.

You may see some improvement due to the 70's ability to accept a 1080p source and the hdmi connection too.

I am looking at a 42" from current 37", I sit about 10feet away for gaming and tv/movies
 

hornydragon

Distinguished Member
Hmm, ok hornydragon, i`m waiting for new pana pz700 or pio 508xd, I`m currently without a screen. What do you think i should do ? I hate not having a decent screen. i want to watch freeview, dvds and play 360, maybe buy into hddvd or bluray and hdtv in the future. I sit about 2-4 m away from the screen depending on what i`m playing or watching.
hmm 50" screen... stereo sound.... not my cup of tea, 1080p not worth the doe IMO either buy a bargain PWD6/7/8 and wait or just wait, new pio may be good has alot of work to do to catch Fujitsu up. 2m you may see the extra res but SD will look worse 4m no point in the extra res scaling will happen so i would say if your going to consider a 1080p screen and watch stuff that isnt 1080p native ou need a good scaler internal or external.....
I would grab a bargain panel for now 50" if you like and get a decent sound system running with it the most impressive thing i have experienced on HD-DVD is the sound not the picture......
 

ozzzy189

Distinguished Member
Ta. what`s a pw6 ? is it the pana plasma monitor ? fuji is too dear. 2.5k is max budget i`m afraid. I want a really good tv pic, bbc hd channel looks ace, skyhd stuff looks pants to me. I`m really confused. can you pm me some of your ideas please ? thanks.
 

Buckster

Distinguished Member
well - I'm all for a decent non-HD SD plasma screen .... :)

I've got a Panasonic PWD8 (not-HD) - and a Dell 2407 (supports 1080p).

For gaming on the 360 - the 2407 is much better, its where the resolution matters, but for films, give me the PWD8 ANY day - not including the fact that the screen is much bigger, the colours are far better, contrast better, no artefacts, etc etc Being fed by a Toshiba SD-9500 - which is one of the better non-HD dvd players.

I've compared vs my friends 1080p Sharp Aquos 42 inch LCD, and for both DVD, AND HD via Virgin (we both have Virgin V+ boxes) - I much prefer my Plasma.

Even my wife -at the cinema the other day ( who is normally one of those people that says "so you've bought this amp and it improves what exactly .... ?" )- said wow - the picture at home on the Plasma is so much better, and the cinema is only 5 years old or so - so a decent screen.

If my PWD8 broke down and it wasn't under warranty (which it is) - then I'd in a flash go out and find another 2nd hand one, vs buying a new HD plasma - I'm that impressed.

Mark.
 

brad

Active Member
Hi Guys,

I have a 42"PW5 which I paid £3900:eek: for nearly 4 years ago. How the prices have fallen:clap: :clap: This screen has seen over 8000 hours on it and has been 100% reliable. I have it fed from Sky HD over component at 1080i. I am in the market currently for a 50" screen (Lcd not for me) & the only screens I would entertain would be from either Panasonic, Pioneer or Fujitsu. I have not seen the Fujitsu screens so can't comment on them but from what I have read so far they appear to get very good reviews. I was most interested when a friend of mine purchased a 42"PX70 as this was one model on my short list. I took my Sky Hd box with me & my first impressions where no dramatic improvements with SD infact I favoured my trusty old PW5:thumbsup: so then to HD which I was expecting a huge leap in picture quality. I was only slightly impressed yes I did see an improvement but not the huge difference I was hoping for. Then we viewed Black Hawk Down on a Denon 1930 with 1080p upscaling it didn't compete on PQ with my DV27+ but with the Denon costing £250 not a fair comparison really. So I am back to waiting for the Panasonic & Pioneer new models & finding a local (ish) dealer that has the Fujitsu models on demo. So the old saying "they don't make em like they used too" seems about right.I really only want a screen only no speakers & teletext etc would rather be paying for a quality panel than all the extra crap that i don't want nor need. Can anyone recommend any screens for my shortlist??








Panasonic PW5, Arcam AVR300 ,Arcam DV27+, Sky HD, M&K Sw95 Custom fit Inwalls M&K 851 centre M&K MX125 Mk 11 sub, Nordost cables & Merlin Iec Leads
 

pjskel

Well-known Member
First one springing to mind then is the AV Sales special deal on Panny PH9 - £1330 inc. HDMI, VGA, and Composite/S-Video, and a calibration DVD.
See the link at the top of this (sub) forum.
Alternatively, Full HD TV next month - 50PZ700 for £2468 (currently)
Of course, Pioneer's 8G should be launching at the same time, so you'll be able to see if the hype is warranted or not. May, June, July are certainly going to be interesting months for a lot of fence sitters.
 

hornydragon

Distinguished Member
Alternatively, Full HD TV next month - 50PZ700 for £2468 (currently)
Of course, Pioneer's 8G should be launching at the same time, so you'll be able to see if the hype is warranted or not. May, June, July are certainly going to be interesting months for a lot of fence sitters.

TH-50PF9 1920x1080 Plasma monitor already available slightly higher price and far less pointless bits.

50PH9 is stunning and stupidly cheap i remeber when the PW7 SD 42" was this money and people clammered to buy it
 

pjskel

Well-known Member
Don't know about pointless bits - that'll be wholly subjective between users, but I find the only 3 inputs on the PH9 being a hindrance rather than ingratiating me to them.
Still might, but it's a case of having to make do rather than having what I need. 4 interchangeable inputs, and I'd be sold.
Can you use Component without the Composite/S-Video or is the sync on green issue only with the SCART terminal?
If so, then I could do HDMI and twin Component.
 

hornydragon

Distinguished Member
Don't know about pointless bits - that'll be wholly subjective between users, but I find the only 3 inputs on the PH9 being a hindrance rather than ingratiating me to them.
Still might, but it's a case of having to make do rather than having what I need. 4 interchangeable inputs, and I'd be sold.
Can you use Component without the Composite/S-Video or is the sync on green issue only with the SCART terminal?
If so, then I could do HDMI and twin Component.

with the 42 50 and 65 panels you have a Fixed VGA connection that accpets RGBHV, RGBS, YUV and RGsB if i recall correctly you then have 3 bays which you can fit termainal boards to HDMI, DVi, VGA, Component, SDi, WiFi, Video and more you can use component via VGA D-sub or component board without S-video/composite board an S-vidoe composite board comes fitted but can be removed so you can have 2 HDMI and 2 component inputs or 4 VGA inputs you can mix and match (there are some limitations)
 

oldnewbie

Active Member
Hi all, have an intresting one for you. I have recently sold my Panasonic TH-42PV500 as I have a Panasonic TH-42PX700 due in this week, so I have fitted as a temporary measure an old Panasonic 6 Series Pro Panel non HD. Out of curiosity I ran some pre recorded HD content through it and to my surprise I have found the results almost as good as an HD screen. It has taken me 3 days to discover the deficiencies of the 6 series panel over an HD panel and to be honest they are very marginal. So my question is; are we all being conned here by the manufacturers?

I am a very fussy TV watcher and also involved professionaly with Home Automation but I am; as a test going to run in my showroom an SD panel against an HD panel to see if my clients notice any major differnce. I will let you guys know the results. This discovery has not changed my mind in regards to my upcoming new toy but it certainly is food for thought if your budget does'nt permit an HD screen, just stick with a quality SD unit as the gains are only apparent if your used to the end result of the HD screen.

Sorry to ramble but me and a few other local dealers are starting to wonder if all that HD offers is near CRT quality but on large screens. My observations above would add credibility to this premis.

completely agree, I have a pe50 and a r73lcd, and they are both really good at different things, I think for gaming hd is really the way to go but for films I can hardly tell the difference to be honest, I think its because with films the majority of the time the only thing that is in focus is the main character in the centre of the screen so there really isn't that much difference except with animation and then there really is a big difference between sd & hd because everything is in focus at the same time, but as you point out if I feed hd to my sd plasma then I am hard pushed to tell the difference between an sd and hd panel:thumbsdow
 

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