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HD Judder

Discussion in 'Televisions' started by tim k, Aug 9, 2005.

  1. tim k

    tim k
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    After sourcing a lot of large .ts files im finding alot of judder in slow pans. when the camera goes from side to side it judders alot, the front is in focus but the back image will be juddering. is this normal for .ts d/ls? is this how it would appear on hdtv cable in america or part of the compression?

    also i havent seen this on wmv hd.
     
  2. Rimmer

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    There are two likely explanations:

    1. Your computer doesn't have enough horsepower to decode HD video and is frameskipping.

    2. 3:2 pulldown. 3:2 pulldown is the technique used to convert 24Hz film to 60Hz video used in the US, Canada, Japan etc. Every other film frame is held for 3 video fields resulting in a sequence of 3 fields, 2 fields, 3 fields, 2 fields, etc. The 3-2 cadence causes slight juddering which is most noticeable during horizontal pans and during the scrolling end credits of films.

    Most films in TS format are actually stored at 24fps but flagged 60i (1080i) or 60p (720p) - the repeat frames/fields are added by the decoder.

    As I understand it WMV-HD material is stored and encoded at 24fps and when played back syncs to the refresh rate of the monitor, so when set to a compatible refresh rate there shouldn't be any judder - in theory.
     
  3. tim k

    tim k
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    interesting. this would make sense, i know its 100% not a horsepower issue as im running a 3gig p4 with 6800gt goes like hell. and it plays anything i put at it.

    i think its just the way the americans are encoding the hd stuff. can anyone else confirm judder on pans in hd sourced movies i.e. .ts files??
     
  4. kenji-san

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    i have the same problem with alot of my movies too, very annoying. :(
    is there some way to do 3:2 pulldown with some software or movie player? There's no 3:2 pulldown option of sorts in windows media player or vlc player.
     
  5. Muf

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    To add to Rimmer's post, there is also the case of interlaced source material.
    If your file is a general TV show or documentary, it may have been shot in 1080i. Most codecs do a poor job with this type of file in my opinion, they seem to discard one field from each frame and construct a complete frame from the remaining field. This effectively halves the frame rate and makes fast panning shots un-watchable. If this is true in your case then there are some solutions. The easiest thing to try, since you have a powerful PC is download and install the trial version of Elecard MPEG player 3.0. Go into the video settings and change the deinterlace mode to "Double Rate", this will play both 50Hz and 60Hz interlaced HD files showing both fields.

    Jim
     
  6. Steve.J.Davies

    Steve.J.Davies
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    If you are not stuck on windows try XINE player. (or KAFFEINE).
     
  7. Stephen Neal

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    nVidia's MPEG2 decoders also allow field->frame conversion giving fluid motion when converting 50i or 60i native material to progressive for PC display. Not sure how fast they are with HD stuff though.

    The Elecard stuff is pretty good - I've used the trial versions. How much are they to buy?
     
  8. Muf

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    Only 20 US$ Stephen for the player including H264 codecs. They are now doing a full DVD player as well.

    Jim.
     
  9. Stephen Neal

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    Thanks for that - sounds like a good deal.
     
  10. DrunkenDuck

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    I too get bad judder with panning on most HD movies in .ts format. I have tried several different decoders and the likes of Reclock and Powerstrip and nothing has cured it . Using Judder test always confirms the lost frames and for now i have decided to give up for the sake of my sanity.
     
  11. Stephen Neal

    Stephen Neal
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    What processor, video card and installed memory do you have?
     
  12. DrunkenDuck

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    Sempron 3100, 6600GT card and 1GB ddr400 crucial memory
    Tried Media player 10
    Videolan (seems to work best)
    nvidia pure video
    ffdshow
    powerstrip etc

    any suggestions ?
     
  13. Ronan

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    That improved it a lot for me. Had to disable 'Hardware Acceleration' as well (ATI graphics card).
     
  14. tim k

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    using a p4 3.0gig 1gig ddr and 6800gt with nvidias pure video decoders. bad judder panning using elecard, wmpclassic, mce and wmp10.

    RAR!
     

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