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HD in Japan - looking good ...

Discussion in 'TVs' started by Laskina, Oct 13, 2005.

  1. Laskina

    Laskina
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    I stayed in Japan last week and thought I would let you know about how they are supporting HD (or Hi-Vision as they call it).

    The house I was staying in had two Sharp Aquos LCD displays (32" & 42" - both had great PQ) and the TV signal was received via cable. The 7 national broadcasters (e.g. NHK (think BBC) and Fuij (think ITV)) transmit in HD and nearly all new programs are HD. There are a load of cable channels (including their equivalent of Sky) and most of the big ones support HD.

    The quality was fanastic and I found myself flicking channels until I get to a 1125i broadcast just to see HD. In the UK I have downloaded HD stuff but it doesnt compare to the seeing it broadcast - and somehow the quality seems to me to be much better.

    Another cool thing is the program info bar (like the Sky one) - it not only tells you all about the program content but also all the broadcast format info, e.g. resolution (e.g. 1125i), picture format (e.g. 16:9), sound format (e.g. 5.1 Digital) and sound codec (e.g. ACC).

    I am now really looking forward to SKY HD and cant wait for the BCC and ITV get their HD act together.

    Some pictures from 32" LCD amd info bar attached ...

    Nick
    aka Laskina
     
  2. Stephen Neal

    Stephen Neal
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    I think that Japanese HD may look better than many of the downloaded HD .ts captures from US HD broadcasts because I think the Japanese run many of their services at higher data rates.

    Additionally, if you were watching the HD downloads on a PC, it may be that the de-interlacing performed by dedicated hardware is better at HD levels.

    Also - if the Japanese stuff you were watching was mainly "TV" - and thus 60i video sourced, when compared to much of the US stuff, which is shot on film or 24p video - the Japanese stuff will appear to have more fluid motion (because 60i sourced material has more motion rendition than 24p material)
     
  3. AML

    AML
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    Ive said this before. Even though the quality of the broadcasting is good, the content is terrible!
    There really is nothing to watch after 5 years of being here.
    They repeat the same programs week after week.
    For Nick it was probably fund coz you dont live here and you were probably enjoying the TV shows since youve never seen them, but trust me, they get really boring.

    Ive downloaded stuff in .ts and I felt that stuff looked just as good as Hi Vision, and at least the programing is good in the US.

    Trust me when I say that no matter how beautiful something looks, if theres nothing to see then its a waste of time.
     
  4. Spacecat

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    its what i have said before , do you really want to see eastenders,xfactor,celebrity love island etc in Hi DEF?
    personally i think they should bring out LOW DEF! that makes the screen blurry
     
  5. Laskina

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    I love Japanese TV - been watching it for 12 years - trust me, UK TV is worse! 200 odd channels and still only watch repeats of Top Gear!!!

    But content aside, it was just refreshing to see the Japanese commitment to HD across the channels, the technology is there and its been used to its full potential.

    Unlike here in the UK were so many of us have invested in the AV equipment but yet still suffer the PQ of 20 years ago :mad:

    Nick :)
     
  6. DanDT

    DanDT
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    Personally i can't wait to see Simon Cowell's make up lines in high resolution. And laugh my ass off.
     
  7. StooMonster

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    Apple announced that this very week with iTunes Video!

    Pay $1.99 per episode of 'Lost' and 'Desperate Housewives' in glorious 320x240 pixels in 4:3 ratio; play it on television via s-video out from iPod, or watch it in tiny window on monitor. At least the music videos are not cropped aspect ratios, but they are even smaller than 320x240 as they're letterboxed.

    StooMonster
     
  8. Stephen Neal

    Stephen Neal
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    Be perfectly happy to watch EastEnders and The X Factor in HD - didn't watch Celeb Love Island so don't care about that!

    I would be surprised if the Beeb didn't shift EastEnders, Casualty and Holby to HD quite early in their HD moves, as they would get a lot of output in HD for quite low levels of hardware investment.

    AIUI EastEnders is now nearly tapeless in production terms (though tapes are used for backup) - so it would be a case of upgrading the on-line NLEs from SD to HD. (I believe that EE digitise live to disc as they shoot)

    The X Factor live shows seem like just the thing for HD - they are big, glitzy, very high-rating, light entertainment, and last year they looked absolutely awful on ITV DSat! (The low resolution - 544x576 not 720x576 - and massive over compression of ITV on DSat is just dreadful)
     
  9. AML

    AML
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    Id like a portable device that allows me to play WMP10, .ts, and any other usefull codec at native resolutions.

    Screen size shold be at least 10".
    2.5" just doesnt cut it for me, thats the size of my digital cameras screen for goodness sake!

    Still, with the ipod video coming out, im sure lots of other makers will start pumping out similar players.
     
  10. meansizzler

    meansizzler
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  11. Drew2

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    Nick,
    Were you watching satellite channels? I know you said the signal was fed by a cable but these TVs have built in satellite decoders, in fact they have a total of four decoders - BS,110,terrestrial digital & analogue.

    Most terrestrial HD is upscaled 4:3 with added side bars! As for 5.1 sound NHK have only just announced that they will be introducing this feature in the near future :) .As demo'd at CEATEC

    However, I will admit that nearly all true 1080i signals are simply 'stunning' :cool: .
    Natural history being my favorite, HD on baseball - what a waste! :devil:

    Glad you enjoyed your time here though! :smashin:
     
  12. Stephen Neal

    Stephen Neal
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    Out of interest - are BS and 110 two different satellite systems, or just two different orbital locations (and thus usually fed from two different dishes or LNBs)?
     
  13. RecordablDVDfan

    RecordablDVDfan
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    You never will, he won't be in the next series !
     
  14. Drew2

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    They are separate systems with different orbital locations but share the same dish, which is rather handy! Sky Perfect uses its own dish, but you can receive some of the service via 110 if you swap to digital.

    Was watching the Kashima Antlers game in HD today so hope Germany get their act together to bring us the world cup in 1080i. I'm already a "HD Junkie" and get withdrawl symptoms everytime I switch to an analogue broadcast - but have to suffer it to watch MotoGP.
     
  15. Stephen Neal

    Stephen Neal
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    Are they based on the same transmission system and conditional access system, and different orbital slots, so require dish with twin LNBs arranged so that one dish receives different orbital slots (a bit like an Astra 1, Hotbird dish over here)?

    The World Cup is being covered ONLY in HD in Germany. The host broadcast coverage is being originated in HD - there is no "second class" additional HD (as was the case with the Olympics). The main match feeds fed to 4:3 and 16:9 SD broadcasters will be downconverts of the 1080/50i 16:9 HD match coverage.

    If the Japanese station that holds the rights for WC2006 is HD, and can arrange for backhaul and on-site production/presentation in HD (if appropriate) then you should get it in HD.
     
  16. Drew2

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    The two systems use the same B-CAS card so your TV or HDD recorder only has one slot, if I upgrade my Sky-perfect package to digital its analogue card will become redundant(STB). I just tell them my cards ID and the service will get switched on. Hope that answers your question!

    That's a bit "pants" about the HD broadcast for Germany only!! :eek:

    I am hoping that because of the good relations between Japan and Germany that they will allow separate HD coverage otherwise I wont be paying for the package! I'll just "hang-out" in my local electrical shop - which will no doubt be showing it on all of its displays with my "carry-out"! :devil:
     
  17. Stephen Neal

    Stephen Neal
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    You misread what I said - though I could have phrased it better.

    I didn't mean that ONLY Germany will get it in HD, I meant that there is only HD coverage!

    They aren't covering it in SD with sub-standard HD bolted-on in poorer camera positions and with fewer cameras - the core match feed is being originated in HD - with the SD feeds being derived from it. This was also the case for Euro 2004 from Portugal - though the HD and 16:9 SD feeds were more difficult to source than will be the case for WC 2006 I believe.

    If the Japanese broadcast rights holder for WC2006 is HD capable and can arrange for HD backhaul, then they should be able to convert the 50i to 60i and show it in HD in Japan. Potentially good news for you!

    (AIUI WC 2002 had secondary HD coverage from Japan and Korea - though this was "bolt on" not "core" - but it does suggest that if the same rights holders have the rights this time around they will be interested in HD?)
     
  18. Drew2

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    Nice one!!

    Already looking forward... :smashin:
     
  19. AML

    AML
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    The last olimpics were shown in HD in Japan.
    Im pretty sure they will show any other major sporting event in HD from now on. Even if only the Germans have the right to film all the games, they will no doubt use HD cameras.
     
  20. Stephen Neal

    Stephen Neal
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    Only some events at Athens were covered in HD, and apart from the athletics, the HD coverage was separate to the SD coverage, and had poorer camera positions, fewer cameras, and fewer special cameras (like minicams etc.). The Athletics was slightly different, as it was covered using HD cameras. These worked SD into 5 or 6 SD trucks to create the various simultaneous track and field mixes, with a single HD truck also mixing the cameras in HD to produce a single "athletics best of" HD feed.

    There were many Athens 2004 events NOT covered in HD.

    The Turin Winter Olympics, originally touted as being 100% HD production, are now looking to be a mix of HD and SD. However the HD coverage will be core at the events that are covered in HD, there will be no dual SD/HD coverage as was the case in Athens, as most facilities required for decent coverage (super slow motion high frame rate cameras, radio camera links, miniature cameras etc.) are now becoming available in HD - or it is practical to upconvert SD variants into an HD mix.

    There still look to be a couple of SD-only events at Turin - though hopefully they will be 16:9 SD not 4:3.

    It isn't a case of "The Germans have the right to film all the games" - instead the World Cup authorities appoint or create a "Host Broadcaster" organisation, to provide coverage for all rights holders. This is now common for most large sporting events. It isn't always the domestic state broadcaster, nor is it always a broadcaster from the country the event takes place in, or even just a single broadcaster, or even always a broadcaster at all!

    In Barcelona 1992 for instance, the BBC were the Host Broadcasters for the Tennis coverage (because of their experience covering Wimbledon), and thus the BBC worked to the Barcelona Host Broadcast organisation. In Lillehammer 1994, the BBC were Host Broadcasters for the Bob/Luge events, because of their industry-leading expertise in miniature TV cameras and mountings, and because of their experience covering Formula 1 at the time (believe it or not!)

    You are right that any major sporting event that is stadium based is likely to be shot in HD. However not all sporting events are as easy to cover in HD (or SD for that matter) as stadium team sports - where you have 15-20 cabled cameras and just one or two radio cameras. If you consider long-distance skiing or cycling, or a marathon, the requirement for long cable runs, radio links etc. makes HD coverage still much more difficult - SD coverage of these kinds of events is still far from easy!
     
  21. Laskina

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    Hi - pretty sure is was cable with a cable decoder box.

    5.1 was supported on a number of channels - particularly wowwow movies.

    And agree - baseball in HD looked great but still puts me to sleep within minutes! :)

    Nick
     
  22. probedb

    probedb
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  23. Jimbo73

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    Get a PSP. 4.3" of 16:9 goodness. The screen is far better than the iPod's. If you dont like paying for Sony UMDs (and lets face it, who would pay another 24.99 for a cut-down, regionalised version of a film they already own on DVD?) ... and own a 2Gb memory card then you can pretty much watch anything you want.

    Oh, and the latest official firmware has support for "location free TV" for movie streaming over the internet too..
     
  24. Stephen Neal

    Stephen Neal
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    Yep - be interesting to see if "Location Free TV" gets marketed in PAL regions. The US Location Free encoder - which seems to be a similar concept to the Slingbox, but using MPEG4 rather than Windows Media - costs US$349.

    Given that the PSP seems to be universally based around 29.97fps media (I think European UMDs are not 25fps but also 29.97fps) it will be interesting to see whether a PAL 50Hz variant of the Location Free encoder is marketed - and whether it does a crude 25->29.97 conversion, or whether the PSP is modified to support 25fps properly?
     
  25. CKNA

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    Here is the website for WC 2006 Host Broadcaster. http://www.hostbroadcastservices.com/
    You can find out everything you need to know about TV production for WC 2006.
     
  26. Kevo

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    DEAD RIGHT.

    They've gonna have a hard time getting the UK public to buy into Hi-Def when the content quality is so poor across the board. They've struggled to convince them about standard DTV, so they're not likely to want to change again so soon....and who can blame them.

    Same goes for DVDs and Hollywood films.

    It could well join the likes of Laser disk/SVHS/DVD-Audio/SACD et al as just another..'Yeah very nice, but i'll stick with what i've already got thanks'.

    Personally I think it will remain a niche market at a price for a long time yet.

    It's easy to forget that enthusiasm in forums like this respresnt just a 'micro atom' of the general populous.
     
  27. Laskina

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    Location Free - its cool :) Another gadget bought in Japan!

    Setup in the in-laws (in Japan) connected to standard TV & a new Sony HDD recorder. TV channels can be selected using the LF software. An IR blaster and the LF remote control software allows me to control the HDD recorder - I use the recorders PRV to search the schedules and record the programs I want (and watch them back at my leisure).

    PQ is alright - its streaming all the way around the world (home broadband to home broadband) - so its not perfect. Definately not HD!!!!

    As for using LF wireless in your home - hmmm .... dont see the point really - would rather hardwire a TV. Unless you want to sit in the garden and watch Eastenders - well, its perfect weather for it! :rolleyes:

    Nick
     

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