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HD football in sunlight

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IanMerseyside

Guest
Does anyone know why the PQ for football matches looks much worse when they are played in bright sunshine, e.g Villa v Newcastle over the weekend. The detail just seems lost and it is almost impossible to pick out who the individual players are. On the contrary, golf and cricket look absolutely stunning in bright conditions.
 

wednesday83

Active Member
Ive often wonfdered the same. Was the same for the play off finals this weekend. Noticable that the replays of the championship plays off looked better.

Also wildlife shows and Ross Kemp look great in bright sunny conditions. My guess must be the fact football is fast moving and encoders cannott process the movement and light change quickly enough.

Football looks far better under flood lights.
 

RostokMcSpoons

Novice Member
Personally I suspect the problem is most footy stadia have high stands around them, which leads to shadows on the pitch. The unfortunate cameraman has to try to balance the contrast for the shadowed parts of the pitch and the bright areas, without making such big changes that either area loses all detail. And that compromise means neither gets perfect exposure.
 
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IanMerseyside

Guest
The problem was very apparent during the ITV HD coverage of the FA Cup Final today. I guess the sun/shadow issue is just something we have to live with.
 

Legendary

Active Member
Could filming in opposite side of stadium improve this ? or they are too used to working on one side.
 

RostokMcSpoons

Novice Member
I watched a program about the building of the stadium: all the cabling is built into the infrastructure and would be too big a job to swap over. I also suspect, given how much computer simulation they did of the views from all the seating, that in fact swapping sides wouldn't help, or they'd have done it 'right' in the first place.

The contrast issue is something that bugs me in SD, even on a CRT, so at least it's not a special problem for flat-screen or HD, which hopefully makes it a bit easier to live with?
 

SASSBS

Standard Member
watched the scottish cup final on Saturday, lovely sunny day and the HD picture looked superb compared to the SD One. Very clear picture and you could see every detail.
 

hdsport

Well-known Member
I also suspect, given how much computer simulation they did of the views from all the seating, that in fact swapping sides wouldn't help, or they'd have done it 'right' in the first place.
Apparently they asked the broadcasters for their input then promptly ignored it. Although ITV (backed by Setanta/SKY) got them to move to the new lower main camera position this year.

It's also been said that ITV asked for the roof to be closed on Saturday (as far as it can) to help and were told no! I'd guess we're stuck with it unless they knock the stadium down and re-orientate the whole thing!
 
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Silver Serpent

Well-known Member
Does anyone know why the PQ for football matches looks much worse when they are played in bright sunshine, e.g Villa v Newcastle over the weekend. The detail just seems lost and it is almost impossible to pick out who the individual players are. On the contrary, golf and cricket look absolutely stunning in bright conditions.
What make of box do you have and what is the contrast setting on, i.e. Low, Medium or High?

If you have an Amstrad whos contrast setting is stuck on High, then matches on Sunny Days are going to be unwatchable due to clipping take place in the image.

If you have any other make of box whos contrast control works correctly, then try switching to Low when watching such content and it should help matters greatly.

Some are of the opinion that Low is the correct setting for a Sky HD receiver anyway, as they see Medium as clipping white, so try Low and see if you are of that opinion.

I have a feeling you were using Medium all along.

Also, make sure the contrast setting on your TV isn't excessive, as this may also contribute to the problem you're experiencing.
 
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IanMerseyside

Guest
What make of box do you have and what is the contrast setting on, i.e. Low, Medium or High?

If you have an Amstrad whos contrast setting is stuck on High, then matches on Sunny Days are going to be unwatchable due to clipping take place in the image.

If you have any other make of box whos contrast control works correctly, then try switching to Low when watching such content and it should help matters greatly.

Some are of the opinion that Low is the correct setting for a Sky HD receiver anyway, as they see Medium as clipping white, so try Low and see if you are of that opinion.

I have a feeling you were using Medium all along.

Also, make sure the contrast setting on your TV isn't excessive, as this may also contribute to the problem you're experiencing.
It is a Thomson box and the contrast is set to low. The TV contrast is at 29 (out of 60 max) as per ISF callibration a couple of years ago. I will try lowering this setting next time there are similar conditions.
 

Silver Serpent

Well-known Member
It is a Thomson box and the contrast is set to low. The TV contrast is at 29 (out of 60 max) as per ISF callibration a couple of years ago. I will try lowering this setting next time there are similar conditions.
Well, if you have had it ISF calibrated then the image should be optimum so no adjustment should be needed.

The problem must be at the broadcast side.

I presume it's a Pioneer Kuro you have?

Was the Low contrast setting used when calibrating?
 

choddo2006

Novice Member
I had the white-out effect in the Cup Final on SSHD but once the camera had adjusted after a couple of seconds, the detail visible in the sunny areas was fine.
 
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IanMerseyside

Guest
Well, if you have had it ISF calibrated then the image should be optimum so no adjustment should be needed.

The problem must be at the broadcast side.

I presume it's a Pioneer Kuro you have?

Was the Low contrast setting used when calibrating?
It's a Pioneer 436PE (probably extinct now!) and I think low contrast setting was used during the callibration.

I watched the England Scotland U19 match on Setanta the other night and whilst the PQ was obviously not HD and not great quality generally, the match was much more "watchable" despite being played in sunny conditions with a lot of the pitch in shade. I think perhaps the fact that the sun was not directly overhead (7pm kick off time) lessens the effect of the sun/shade factor. I must admit before the match I thought it might be almost unwatchable having seen some really poor offerings from Setanta this season in perfect conditions, both day and night games.
 
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IanMerseyside

Guest
Sorry to bring this old chestnut up again but I watched the England Sweden U21 match yesterday and despite being played in contrasting sun and shade conditions the PQ was very good. I don't know who the host broadcaster was but maybe they used different encoders than are used for the PL games.
 

Starburst

Novice Member
It was good picture and certainly seemed to handle the transition between shaded and non-shaded areas of the pitch quite well. Mind you I always prefer the smaller stadiums for TV coverage anyway, they seem to come across much better than the larger grounds/mulit-purpose stadiums in the same way the closer in coverage of Rugby benefits that presentation.
 

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