HD-DVD and PV500

XdarXideX

Standard Member
Hi,

This is probably more of a Panny PV500 question rather than a HD-DVD question.

I've had my PV500 for over a year now and ever since getting the Xbox 360 I've noticed that, even in high definition resolutions, there has always been a very mild form of picture grain/noise. For instance you can see slightly dark green static amongst a black screen... only from a reasonably close distance from the panel. Cable/DVD has always looked pretty rubbish for noise considering the size of the TV (42") compared to the resolution of the image but upon getting the HD-DVD drive for the 360 and watching some King Kong, I've noticed that the grain is now more visible... especially on flesh tones. It doesn't look like film grain up close either. It's like little darker pixels are dancing around on light colours and it kinda ruins the magic. It's moving static/noise.

Is this normal for the Panny PV500? Has anyone else experienced this? I'm now unsure of the build quality of my TV or whether its a fault or not. Could it be the component leads I'm using from the 360? For the £2400 I spent on this TV I was hoping the picture would pretty much be perfect.

Just so you guys know, i've tried playing with the picture settings and with the noise reduction set to ON the picture quality is downgraded with soft edges, so it's not really a solution I want.

Should I get a new TV?
 

Ekko Star

Distinguished Member
The PV500 can't accept 1080P either but the the grain you mention is probably down to the extra detail and quality. The green tinge doesn't sound right.
 

Andy130

Active Member
im runnin it thu a 42pv500 via component at 720p and the picture is stunning.
are you using a good quality cable?
 

Steve-L

Novice Member
I know exactly what you mean - if you think about the screen you get on an analogue TV when it isn't tuned in - the randomly bouncing pixels - this is the sort of effect you get, but it is only just visible and then only when you are a couple of feet away from the screen. On a solid black screen the noise appears as a slightly lighter shade of black to my eyes.

It doesn't spoil the picture from normal viewing distance but it does detract from it a little when you wander up for a closer inspection.

I have always got this on my PV500/360 - even now when I'm using a Monster VGA. I thought it was just me being overly fussy... obviously not!

I don't know what it is or what causes it but would be interested if any other PV500 owners notice this or can shed a little light on it!
 

damo_in_sale

Well-known Member
It sounds to me as though the brightness and or contrast is set too high. Try using Digital Video Essentials to calibrate.
 

Nic Rhodes

Well-known Member
I would agree with the previous poster. What you are seeing is the limitation of the plasma which can be minimised by correct set up. (Yes I have one as well).
 

Steve-L

Novice Member
That sounds like a very promising avenue for investigation... :smashin:

I've had the HD-DVE disc on pre-order for ages now but it keeps getting pushed back :(
 

Kevo

Well-known Member
Is this normal for the Panny PV500? Has anyone else experienced this?
Certainly not. I have also had the same TV for just over a year now and have DVD, Sky HD, Xbox360 and now HD-DVD connected to it and have NEVER experienced any of the problems you mention. I've heard of this 'green tinge' on games before but have never seen it on my pv500.
In fact in terms of PQ only I have only seen one other make, the Pioneer that matches it.
 

XdarXideX

Standard Member
Hey guys,

Thanks for the replies.

Steve-L - Yeah kinda like that. Like an image that needs fine tuning.

Anyway... I tried watching my amazingly large collection of 3 HD-DVD's at varying settings and viewing distances. I've since discovered that it seems to be that, due to the downscaling of the picture to 720p from 1080p and the fact that my TV's native resolution is 768 vertical, the movies look a little bit worse than they should. The TV is creating a the grain from the pixels left over from the downscaling versus the film grain. It's only the actual movie, not the Menus (or games BTW) and seems to be very much less apparent on scenes that are mostly or entirely CG.

From the recommended viewing distance the grain is hardly noticable unless I'm looking for it or I'm watching an old film such as Apollo 13.

I'm more than happy with the image now. I guess I was expecting it to look perfect anyway. I'll just wait until I get me a nice 1080p Plasma. :)
 

Monty1977

Well-known Member
Happy PV500 / XBox HDDVD owner here too ... is the mpeg noise reduction on the Panny turned on? Got some horrible artifacts on some sources with mine until I turned it off. Otherwise poor cables can cause what you describe.

Cheers,
Adam
 

Steve-L

Novice Member
I get this "noise" effect on the dark/black areas of the dashboard as well. It's not the cable as I'm using a Monster VGA - got it with my old MS VGA too... I'm waiting for my HD DVE disc to see if that will get rid of it.
 

XdarXideX

Standard Member
With MPEG-NR turned on the picture looks horrible, even on Minimum.

I'm comfortable with the picture now. Perhaps I will take a photo of the image and post it here when I can. When you use the TV's hold feature or pause the HD-DVD the grain is visible but not moving... leading me to believe its not my panel being problematic but the downscaling. I'm tempted to hook up my HD-DVD drive to my PC with those hokey drivers to see if there is any grain that way.

Oh by the way I've tried both VGA and component (my preference) and they both give the same effect.

If you have a PV500 and the HDDVD drive, look at the picture from a couple feet away on fleshtones and darkish scenes in King Kong. You might see what I mean... then amplify that for Apollo 13. It's distracting but you get used to it. I just hope there is some HD-DVD animated features on the way as they will look incredible.
 

dino2021

Active Member
Mine is also fine.

Had mine calibrated a couple of days after I got it and it looks gorgeous now with HD DVD player, you should not have MPEG noise reduction on or colour management.
 

Steve-L

Novice Member
Mine is also fine.

Had mine calibrated a couple of days after I got it and it looks gorgeous now with HD DVD player, you should not have MPEG noise reduction on or colour management.
Could you just confirm that on the dashboard (say on the default theme) in the black areas you have solid black and no moving pixels at all - even when you are about a foot away from the screen? :lease:
 

XdarXideX

Standard Member
I just hope there is some HD-DVD animated features on the way as they will look incredible.
Wow check out my awesome grammar!!

Anyway I meant 2D animated features! :D


Those who are saying their image is perfect on a PV500... what size is your screen? Games run fine on mine and I've played around with the visual settings on mine to the point where I'm satisfied while playing games. It's just HD movies I notice grain on. Maybe it's just my vision picking up the imperfections! :p

EDIT:please can you guys also tell me how your PV500 is currently set up? What mode and what percentages of Contrast, Brightness, Colour, Sharpness and all that stuff?
 

dino2021

Active Member
I have put it on carbon theme and had a look at about 6 inches away and can see on the xbox live bar at the very top I can see pixels changing between a lighter and darker black but not green, but to the left of that in the very top left it is solid black. No pixel movement.

And non of it is viewable past 1 foot, and had my eyes checked the other day and i am wearing new glasses HD DVD just got twice as sharp :)

Something is seriously wrong if you can see it from over say a meter
 

dino2021

Active Member
EDIT:please can you guys also tell me how your PV500 is currently set up? What mode and what percentages of Contrast, Brightness, Colour, Sharpness and all that stuff?
Totally pointless as they can vary so much, you could well end up with a worse picture using some one else settings.

To give you an idea RGB via scart has massively different settings to component on mine
 

XdarXideX

Standard Member
Totally pointless as they can vary so much, you could well end up with a worse picture using some one else settings.

To give you an idea RGB via scart has massively different settings to component on mine
Ok then I'll specify with "Using Component what is your setup?"
 

dino2021

Active Member
I am not getting in to it, its how long is a peice of string type stuff, your tv could well be right with the settings off my RGB AV1 source, if you want your screen done, splash the cash and see Piers if you can't afford it by a DVE disc
 

XdarXideX

Standard Member
I am not getting in to it, its how long is a peice of string type stuff, your tv could well be right with the settings off my RGB AV1 source, if you want your screen done, splash the cash and see Piers if you can't afford it by a DVE disc
If you're not getting into it then why are you posting? And who or what is "Piers"? The HD DVE disc isn't out until January.

Do I need to get even more specific?? What settings are you guys using to get your image perfect for the PV500 when watching HD-DVDs over component from the Xbox 360 HD-DVD drive add-on?

It's not like I'm going to complain that they're wrong... I just know trying setups that have proven to be good to others is worth a shot. Is that Ok??
 

rooster-x

Novice Member
I'm sure its just the limitation of the Plasma, I havn't taken the plunge with HD-DVD yet but on SD-DVD the picture can be awesome on some DVD's and totally pants on others, as always it depends on the source, also the viewing distance makes a lot of difference, we sit 11 - 12 ft away. If you get with in 2 - 3 ft the picture is full of noise and dot crawl.

On another topic, did you feel getting HD-DVD was worth it on this size/ type of screen? I still can't decided whether to get HD-DVD or wait until I get a projector instead. There are only about 3 films I want on HD-DVD as well :confused:

Rooster-X
 

XdarXideX

Standard Member
I'd like to think my 42 inch PV500 is worth the price I bought it for... :(

Though I don't see how it's at its limitations when games look perfect and it's just on HD movies that I get this dancing-pixels effect.
 

rooster-x

Novice Member
I'd like to think my 42 inch PV500 is worth the price I bought it for... :(

Though I don't see how it's at its limitations when games look perfect and it's just on HD movies that I get this dancing-pixels effect.
Have you tried connecting up a PC and playing some High Def from that? We watched Lost Season 3 from the PC, and it looked a lot better than the broadcast version we used to watch before Sky bought it off Ch4 :mad:

When you connect to the PV500 using VGA there are quite a lot of options for changing the colour, refresh rate, Gamma etc Perhaps you could use a PC to test whether it is your screen or your source?

Rooster-X
 

XdarXideX

Standard Member
No I don't have a VGA cable long enough. I tried the VGA cable for the 360 but it produced the same effect only with a slightly lower image quality.
 

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