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HD Compatible?

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by Dirk_Diggler, Aug 30, 2005.

  1. Dirk_Diggler

    Dirk_Diggler
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    The Themescene H30A is spec'd as:

    "Fully HDTV compatible with 720p, 1080i and DVI-HDCP output for maximum clarity"

    Will there be a big difference in picture quality when compared with an HD Ready machine or should it perform to a pretty high standard as well??? :confused:
     
  2. Dirk_Diggler

    Dirk_Diggler
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    Anyone????
     
  3. Liam @ Prog AV

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    The HD ready bit adds the requirement for the 720 or greater verticle line resolution. So compared to say the H79, asides from contrast/colour differences the same image will appear sharper on the true 720p panel of the H79. But of course the H30a is a third the price of a H79.

    It's resolution is an exact 2/3 downscale from 720p so doesn't suffer much in the way of downscaling artefacts and still gives a HD image that looks much better than normal DVD does on the projector.
     
  4. Dirk_Diggler

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    Many thanks Liam. You are the man! :D
     
  5. PJTX100

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    But it's still scaling down whichever way you paint it... which sorta defeats the object IMHO...PJ :)
     
  6. cybrey

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    Its a bit like saying my old CRT telly is HD comptiable provided I stick a scaler in between.
     
  7. Liam @ Prog AV

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    By the same logic then your TX100 isn't fully HD compatible as it needs to downscale 1080i signals so therefore its pointless!!!

    What I'm saying is you will see significant benefit in displaying HDTV on a 480 line display even if the line resolution doesn't match. The higher quality of the signal makes loads of difference, the higher resolution makes even more on a higher resolution display but if you don't have a 720p screen don't feel all is lost. The age old example is of VCR and DVD technically having the same resolution (576i) but one most certainly looks better than the other...
     
  8. PJTX100

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    And there's me thinking 720p was HD...PJ :rolleyes:
     
  9. DEANO-B

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    VHS machines were 200 to 250 lines. Hidef is classed as 720P and above and nearly all programmes are made at 720P, so saying a TX100 isn't fully HD compatible is being a bit picky.
     
  10. fallwood

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    Thats exactly the kind of drivel id expect from a sales rep at currys/dixons etc, vhs has the same res as dvd , HA HA HA, as dean points out vhs was at best 250 lines with the exception being supervhs which was about 400 lines at best. There will always be a huge difference in quality when viewing hi def material on a high def pj compared to viewing on a non hi def pj, otherwise whats the point of hi def pj's.
     
  11. scumball

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    The vertical resolution of VHS is 576 lines as with all PAL material - the horizontal resolution is where the difference lies.
     
  12. fallwood

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    True, but horizontal lines is normally whats stated when referring to resolution of an image, therefore dvd has more than 3 times the horizontal resolution of vhs, not the same resolution . 720p refers to horizontal lines not vertical lines (not to be confused with 720 vertical pixels).
     
  13. Dirk_Diggler

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    And there's me just wanting to know if my picture would be significantly improved not being an HD Ready machine. You gringos know too much. :confused:
     
  14. Liam @ Prog AV

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    720p is indeed 720 horizontal lines, which is therefore the *vertical* resolution. The lines go accross, you count 'em from top to bottom... Now if we were talking total resolution figures then where does 1920 x 1080 (i or p) pixels fit into a 1280x720 display??? Exactly. It doesn't without downscaling. I've said it time and again, it's not just the resolution of the signal that makes it better.

    Look, the distinction I'm making (again) is this:

    HD on a HD Display best, say 10 points (for arguments sake)
    HD on SD Display we'll give that 7
    SD on SD Display can have a 4/5

    So while it's not getting the best, I'm saying there's certainly more to it than just matching a HD resolution display to a HD resolution signal. So for the original poster it might be nice to know that the £1,000 H30a will still give him a very good picture should he not happen to have 3 grand to get something with higher res.

    As for the petty High St drivel comment, surely I would be arguing the opposite in order to gain a sale rather than giving some honest advice? And I never said HD would look the same on SD and HD displays either - take a good look over my posts and see the one small point I'm trying to make. The point of HD displays is to have the best, but it's not to say you can't get very good without one.

    Jeez, try and give a little honest advice and what do I get....
     
  15. Liam @ Prog AV

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    The TX100 not being compatible comment was more an example based on the logic being thrown around this thread. If a 848x480 display simply can't be seen as HD compatible at all due to downscaling, then by the same logic how can a 1280x720 display be when so much HD content is 1080i and much more will be 1080p with HD-DVD and PS3 etc. I obviously don't believe this myself otherwise I wouldn't have posted my original post (saying 480 lines is OK just not the best).

    I don't really want to turn this into an argument of semantics though. I for one think throwing around the term HD could be dangerous when it only really means a higher resolution version relative the current norm. i.e. when we get to 2160p signals, 720p becomes distinctly low def!!!! Can you imagine the lawsuits in ten years time when Pioneer XDE owners go up to Pioneer, HD Ready stickers in hand wondering why it doesn't work with the new signal when it clearly says HD ready on the panel!!! Same for the phrase "Future Proof" - I will never, ever sell a product as future proof. It's impossible! Can you see into the future? Anyway, enough on that tangent/rant or i'll be posting here all week!
     
  16. cybrey

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    Dirk to answer the original question.. if you found ( and they don't exist) a 720P H30A and compared with yours when playing 720 source you'd notice ( hopefully) a distinct improvement in the 720 H30A.

    As the amount of 720 source material is lacking in the uk I suspect when you demo'd your PJ against other similarly priced PJs (AE700, Z3, 4805) you used a dvd, or a SD signal from an aerial. Which is all well and good if you intend on using you PJ in the current UK environments. Personally I took along some 720 source on a laptop and compared all 4 PJs with 720 source, 1080, dvd and terrestial. With the advent of SKY HD at the end of this year I was particularly looking for a 'HD' ready PJ and I preferred the extra detail available with the 2 LCD PJs. The H30A still displayed the HD signal and did a good job.

    As for direct comparisons its not possible. When comparing on similar priced PJs your inevitably comparing LCD to DLP which is a non issue as some people prefer DLP and some people prefer LCD. When comparing on a 720 DLP to the H30A your comparing a PJs which are twice as expensive so again its not a fair comparison.

    So back to the question, when comparing like for like ( ie on price) yes it performed to a high standard but not ( imo) as well as the the two LCDs PJs.
     
  17. fallwood

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    Hi, I don't want to get argumentitive here either but 720P is hidef. Just saying 'well it doesn't natively show 1920x1080 so therefore can it be considered hidef' is completely beside the point. The definition of hidef is as everyone knows 1280x720 or above, as thats the industry standard. Im sure in years to come when 2160P material is released they will change the name - for example SHD super high def. As far as hidef material on a SD display goes - well I personally think it sucks. Yes its better than DVD but the missing detail is evident straight away, and the WOW factor you get when viewing hidef on a hidef PJ doesn't hit. The level of detail you can see, and the clarity of the picture on hidef really is amazing and makes DVD look pathetic. There really is that much difference.

    P.s this was posted by deano-b on my username by mistake. I do however agree with what he says about hd looking poo on an sd display, seen it many times on 480p projectors and it just looks poor in comparison, more of a 5 than a 7 (dvd being a 4). I was looking at a 42" dlp rear projection "high def ready" tv in currys the other day and it was clearly not a true 720p high def display as the image was no where near as sharp or detailed as the images from my true 720p projector. The point im trying to make is that there is a big difference in quality and I think it would be a serious mistake to invest a large amount of cash in a pj/tv that was not at least true 720p, as you say 1080i/p material is becoming more readily available and the 720p units will become classed as low/standard def units within a few years, hows a 480p unit gonna look then.
     
  18. PJTX100

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    Can I ask a stupid question?

    When these mythical HD players appear and all this HD-DVD and Blu-Ray material is released, will it be 720p, or 1080i, or both?

    ...PJ :)
     
  19. Liam @ Prog AV

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    Probably 1080p too for HD-DVD/Blu-Ray and PS3. I reckon we'll get a mixture of resolutions, with players that can convert one to another for output (but potentially intoducing errors in the process!).

    CEDIA USA is this month, should shed some light on a few things...
     
  20. DEANO-B

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  21. cybrey

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    The Xbox 360 is 1080i or 720P, the PS3 will do upto 1080P.
     

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