Hd and Grain

Discussion in 'Satellite TV, Sky TV & FreeSat' started by tigertimtim, Jan 25, 2008.

  1. tigertimtim

    tigertimtim
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    At the moment there are a few HD programmes that have been on at the moment that are very nearly ruined by excessive grain in the picture, i have seen this on more than 1 broadcaster so is it just them using low bandwith/bitrate or could the fault lie with the varoius studios using poor or inappriote quality film, seems to me some of the film stock isnt as good as the sort of stuff they used to use when making the old panavision colour westerns in the 50's for example.
    Also anyone else hate the excessive use of colour filters theese days ? all it does to me is make the picture look worse, family type films aside it seems to be rare theese days to find a film that doesnt use this arty farty type filtering. :devil:
     
  2. Starburst

    Starburst
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    Very little wrong with the broadcasting specs used atm, most channels get a very high bitrate with a few of the other averaging lower.

    So we are left with the natural grain that is present in all film stock and with HD is easier to spot than the lower resolution of SD and the softening effect of analogue connections and CRT processing.
    The use of HD video also has inherent noise while grain can be added at the discretion of the director or DP but we have seen in general terms the capability of TV standard HD video has a weakness with low lit scenes and emphasisers noise/grain in an image.

    I think SKY still have a lot of older HD masters basically created from off the shelf 35mm masters but as time has gone on new movies have been very impressive and no doubt older ones as masters are cleaned and restored are replaced with newly minted copies.

    CSI Miami is a good example of filters but in it's case it's backed up with a excellent SD broadcast which makes the colours pop right out at you:)
     
  3. tigertimtim

    tigertimtim
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    Thanks and good point about Csi Miami thats one programme were theve actually got things right re picture quality, interseting point about low lit scenes being susceptible to grain although there were plenty of scenes like that in Tudors and i didnt notice any grain in that although a few of the scenes did look too light which can happen sometimes with HD. :rolleyes:
     
  4. Albion

    Albion
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    Skillfull use of lighting does not render any grain in an image.Look at the lighting cameramen on the original hammer films.They knew how to produce a dark scene with the creative use of light.The original poster is right, arty farty types seem to think grain imparts some sort of psychological impact or other response in the viewer,while most actually think just how crap the picture is.

    Degrading the image seems to be some sort of disease at present amongst certain film makers.The adoption of HD will be set back by its enemy-grain-it just looks bloody awful.Grain can easily be and should avoided.

    Low lighting conditions will always risk being grainy,unless the lighting is set up accordingly.Worse still is to use Telephoto lenses in low light conditions,like on Torchwood,noted for its grainy sections.However the makers of TW don't have an arty farty excuse,there just being idle.

    Telephoto lenses are mis-used and abused my film makers who really should know better.Want a grain free image.Use high quality film,get plenty of light,use it creatively,avoid the use of telephoto lenses,and don't do any extra arty farty processing after.If you need to use filters use them live.

    The original poster is also right in that older films set an example to many modern day directors.Those Vista Vision,Panavision,Cinemascope lenses needed a light of light.And the results have never been surpassed.
     
  5. Starburst

    Starburst
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    It's no surprise that Ross Kemp in Afghanistan looks so good, all natural light and the same can be said for location shooting on Last of the Summer Wine another show which is praised for it's crystal clear production.

    Of course it's hard to criticise the likes of Spielberg and Scott for their artistic choices in movies:)
     

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