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HD ALIS technology=Good thing?

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by Rob.Screene, Jul 25, 2003.

  1. Rob.Screene

    Rob.Screene
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  2. Easy2BCheesy

    Easy2BCheesy
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    I'd do a search on these very forums - this topic has already been covered extensively. I think the upshot is, by all means give the ALIS panel a progressive scan source, but the improvement in image quality will be negligable.
     
  3. tbrar

    tbrar
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    Rob,

    Its me !!!!!!! :clap:

    I owned a Hitachi 42PD3000 prior to my MXE. It is an Alis Panel as you describe; I have attached a quote from a previuos thread that I responsed to on the same subject, refering to its ability to handle progressive scan inputs:

    The panel has 1024 x 1024 discrete pixels, though the way ALIS works means it can only display half (vertical) at any one time. Conseuqently, its actual resolution at one one time (60th Second in an example of a PAL60 signal) is 1024 x 512, whereby it would firstly display all even lines, then the odd lines.

    However, although I have not seen it, for 1080i sources it would appear to be pretty good, and will display 1080i as 1024i (no downscaling, rather cuts a few lines from picture top & bottom).

    How about this weekend?, send us a mail.


    Tony:smashin:
     
  4. Geeseman

    Geeseman
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    Hi Tony,
    What happens to progressive scan signals that run at more than 30 frames per second?
    Does that mean that this panel scales each frame down to 512 pixels and then displays?
     
  5. tbrar

    tbrar
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    Geeseman,

    Yes is the answer if I follow you correctly.

    Just to reiterate, everything that the panel displays is interlaced.

    So all progressive feeds put into the panel are scaled to panel resolution, whether that scaling is up or down.

    This is then converted back to 1024i interlaced, prior to being displayed at two fields of 512 feilds, regardless of input.

    Cheers


    Tony
     
  6. tbrar

    tbrar
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    Geeseman,

    The 'every 60th second', was just an example to illustrate.

    Tony
     
  7. manc

    manc
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    I have seen your helpfull posts over in the HCPC forum Rob.Screene - I actually own an alis panel (Hitachi pma400e) and am constructing a HCPC at the moment, I would be interested to hear a few views on the best input resolutions on this screen as I am a reletive HCPC noob :)

    As to whether its a good thing - when i was looking for a plasma the picture spoke for itself and the price was best avaliable, at the moment it seems there are good and bad points of all plasmas.

    The hitachi has 2 vga , s-video and component inputs, pretty good for a HCPC :)
     
  8. Geeseman

    Geeseman
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    Ok,
    So accepting a 576i image the panel will:
    1. Convert to progressive scan frame using whatever method the panel uses (2:2 etc)
    2. scale to 1024 X1024
    3. Interlace frame to 1024 X512
    4. Display each field at 50hz (PAL, 60HZ NTSC)

    In case of progressive 576P
    1. Scale to 1024X1024
    2. interlace to 1024X 512
    3. Display each field at 50hz (480P NTSC at 60hz)

    This is *assuming* that the panels pause to receive 2 interlaced frames before displaying anything.

    From what I read, I guess the issue is dealing with signals that are Above 512 pixles at 60hz. Typically this would involve any VGA signal above 1024 by 512 pixels as the panel would have to combine 512 pixels from frame A with 512 pixels from frame B (where A, B, C are frames 1-60 of a normal VGA signal) in its order of displaying a single imterlaced frame. For web surfing that's fine, but for games where the screen is updated at 60hz it would get messy, much like TVs do when handling 60Hz console graphics o VGA out from PC.
    In short, they seem suited to Video display, including HD, but do not seem as competant at VGA signals as progressive scan panels
     
  9. manc

    manc
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    I dont know a great deal about it, but my pc looks great with games at 1024 768 60hz.
     
  10. ggp159

    ggp159
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    Hi i just have a question for the new Philips 42PF9965 that has HD ALis technology. I have not been able to find anywhere on the web if this plasma supports the following modes: 480P,576p,720p,1080i. The resolution of the panel is 1024x1024. On the US side of philips there is the same panel with the same specs but different model number and states clearly all the modes. I called Philips UK and they did't know. On the second call they told me that it only supports 480p and 720p which is something i think they told me to get rid of me because how can the Hitachi plasma mentioned above can handle 1080i but the Philips can't? They have the same resolution 1024x1024!!! Anyone can help please?
     
  11. tbrar

    tbrar
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    As far as I am aware, it will support all of the resolutions; 480p,576p,720p,1080i.

    The only thing to be aware of is that it will display all of them as 1024i - that is two feilds of 512 displayed in an interlaced manner.

    Another point to remeber is the maximum resolution at any instant (depending on refresh rate) is 1024 x 512.

    Have you tried any dealers? - sometimes far more knowledgeable than the customer responders from manufacturers.
     
  12. Geeseman

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    Yeah, that's the problem. running 1024X768 at 60hz on the ALIS will, as it seems, only produce 1024X512 per field.
     
  13. ggp159

    ggp159
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    thanks tbar for the input. another thing that i noticed on the us model which has exactly the same specs as this is the full 1080i resolution. does this mean displaying all 1080 lines or it stills converts it to 1024i to display it? also will i benefit from a progessive scan dvd player and this plasma?
     
  14. tbrar

    tbrar
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    There is a difference in the way 1080i is handled. The 1080i picture is displayed at 1024i. The panel actually cuts, as opposed to downscales, a few lines of picture from each frame in order to display. (ie 1080i = 2 x 540 fields / 1024i = 2 x 512 Fields. Hence (540-512=28) 28 lines cut from each feild in order to display the 1080i as 1024i)

    Hope that make sense :rolleyes:

    See the third from top post above, in my experience no not really "!"!
     
  15. ggp159

    ggp159
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    also another question if u please tbar. is it a bad thing that the panel will upscale all singls to 1024i? be it a 480p from DVD or 720p from Xbox?or is it better?thanks
     
  16. cybersoga

    cybersoga
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    Well, it produces higher percieved resolution and brighter images compared with non alis panels. The scaler in my screen isn't perfect, but it still looks better with a progressive DVD player (480p and 576p) as opposed to an interlaced one. If you look close on some high resolution static images (such as when it's connected to the PC) you can see the flickering that is associated with interlaced images, but it's nothing like as bad as an interlaced CRT. It also reduces the risk of screen burn.

    Idealy I would have liked a 30-35" flat screen with 1080p resolution (non interlaced), at least 1000:1 contrast ratio, built in high quality scaler, DVI input (and DVI output on the DVD player), built in DVB-T tuner, small border, thin and light, produces little heat and has no risk of screen burn, but the technology just isn't with us yet... i'll be kicking myself when it is tho :)
     

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