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HD 720p v 1080i?

Discussion in 'Televisions' started by crank, Aug 13, 2005.

  1. crank

    crank
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    :hiya: Ive just bought a denon 2910 to pair with my panny 42pv500 but when it comes to HD im a bit of a novice.The thing is my denon upscales to either 720p or 1080i and although i am a novice i do realise this is not true HD but having asked around most people seem to regard the 720p picture better than the 1080i,WHY?.Like i said i am a bit of a novice but i thought when it came to HD the higher the better as this produces more detail! :confused: .Now im not sure i know anything at all , so please can anyone out there explain to me in simplified terms whats the difference between the two and why some people seem to regard 720p better than 1080i when its much lower :oops: Can i also appologise to all you experts out there who are probably sick to the back teeth of explaining the same simple things about HD over and over again to people like me"NEWBIES!" :(
     
  2. neil c

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    The extra detail (pixels) will only be visible if your TV can display them.

    I've got a Sanyo Z3 projector with a 1280 x 720 native resolution, so I use a 720p picture wherever possible.

    The projector can't show any more pixels over 1280 x 720, so in theory 720p is my best bet because the picture is already in progressive scan and the projector has has a minimum amount of processing to do to get the picture to fit its native resolution.

    But because this isn't a perfect world, sometimes your AV kit may not adhere strictly to these rules. For example, the 2910 may have a scaler (the processor that sizes the images) that produces a better 720p picture than a 1080i picture.
     
  3. Lionheart

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    Hiya Crank...I have the same tv as you but I have a Panasonic s97 dvd player... which also upscales via HDMI to 720p and 1080i....I must admit im pushed to tell the difference between the 2...both look amazing...I leave it on 1080i cos I think or fool myself into thinking its just a hairs breadth better (probably cos 1080 is a bigger number lol)..so my advice...whatever you think looks best (even if u r kidding yourself lol) is the one to use...as for the technical reason behind it all...im afraid i dont know...plenty of clever guys on here do though and always seem happy to explain it or point u in the right direction
     
  4. AML

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    As lionheart said, choose something according to what your eyes say is best.

    I have a Fujitsu plasma (1024X1024) and a 3910 set to 1080i through DVi-D.

    I also feel 1080i looks slightly better than 720p.

    Even though I know technicaly my plasma cant show that resolution.

    You should always consider the technical specs of a product, but ultimately its your eyes and ears that tell you what you like.
     
  5. Rasczak

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    Not 100% sure but doesn't the Panny 42pv500 have a native resolution of 720? In which case you should get the best results with 720p as 1080i will simply be scaled down. That said if you can't tell any difference it's a bit academic :)
     
  6. binbag

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    The extra detail (pixels) will only be visible if your TV can display them.



    And your source has them to begin with...
     
  7. Rob20

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    TBH, I can't see the point of 1080i 50/60hz, (1080i 25/30) at the moment. The only tv I know off that has the full 1920 by 1080 res to actually display it is the £5,000 45" Sharp LCD. Most HDTV's have a res of 1366/768 or less. Meaning that 600 odd horizontal pixels per line, and 300 lines of info have to be removed. Add to this the fact that a number of 1080i shows are actually 1440 by 1080i not 1920 by 1080i, and the benefits may not be as great as they initially seem. Especially as 720p pictures are made up of whole frames, rather than half frames. i.e. 720p 50/60 rather than 1080i 25/30. My tv has 1366 by 768. I'd far rather it scaled 1280/720p 50/60hz material than have 1920/1080i 50/60 scaled down to 1366/768i 50/60. If you get my point.
     
  8. Lionheart

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    Thanx guys re the 720p being the being the better system on the 42pv500...Im gonna give it a closer look
     
  9. Stephen Neal

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    Hmm - surely it is good to have room for improvement without having to launch new transmission systems and receivers.

    AIUI 1920x1080/24 or 25p is the US/European HD drama production standard. Yep - first generation HDCams down-resed to 1440x1080, but HD-D5 and new HDCam-SRs run at the full 1920x1080, and I think it would be a good idea not to hobble a new broadcasting system with a lowest-common denominator resolution.

    Sure 1280x720p will be a major improvement over 702x576i, but 1920x1080i/p will be a further improvement...

    Yes 1080p sets are quite expensive at the moment - but surely the fact that they are available in the UK before we even have an HD broadcast system must mean that they will be commonplace in less than 5 years?

    (If we had stuck with "good enough" we'd have gone with 405 line NTSC in the 60s, as ITV wanted...)
     
  10. Rob20

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    AFAIK, there is no tv in the Uk that will accept a 1080p 50/60hz signal. The Sharp 45" LCD while having the necessary resolution will only accept a 1080i picture. The same is true of Sony's $30,000 Qualia SXRD projector. It merely takes a 1080i picture and converts it into a 1080p picture. It won't accept 1080p 50/60. I wonder if it's the same with the rest of the Qualia range!? As for 1080p broadcasts being commonplace in 5 years, I think that's a tad optimistic.
     
  11. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    crank

    Its Watts Per Channel all over again :)

    The marketers do love bigger numbers - though I remember back in the 80's when Marantz (I think it was) released a 1-bit CD player and told the world it was better than a 16-bit or whatever was flavour of the month at the time; now that was fun!!!

    Its not 100% clear what exactly goes on inside many of these 'up-scaling' DVD players - how they arrive at 1080i is a particular mystery and not many manufacturers give out details of what process they use to arrive at these signals.

    If you send your PlasmaTV a 720P signal it has a lot less work to do to display the signal on its 1024x768P pixel array over sending it a 1080i signal.

    As some folk say its possibly not immediately obvious which signal is best with your PlasmaTV - though I'm sure when you start to play discs that include lots of horizontal panning shots, buildings with diagonal lines, staircases etc you will start to see artefacts in the 1080i signal you may not see in the 720P signal.

    Best regards

    Joe

    Rob20 - not really a TV as such but you can stick 1080P into the Fujitsu LPF-D711 3LCD Projector; I believe Sony are making 1080P a $3K retro 'upgrade' on some of the Qualia products!!!
     
  12. Stephen Neal

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    I didn't say 1080p broadcasts would be commonplace - I said that 1080p sets would be. This is simply because 1080i CRTs won't be - because CRT is the only realistic 1080i technology - and won't be commonplace...

    If you want to exploit the full resolution of 1920x1080i broadcasts, then a 1920 horizontal screen is required. Sure there might be 1920x720 screens - but in square pixel arenas, 1920x1080p is more likely?

    It is also possible that 1080p will be used (in 24p or 25p modes) for pre-recorded material, and (in 50p or 60p modes) for PCs and games consoles.
     
  13. Stephen Neal

    Stephen Neal
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    Though this isn't the end of this subject.

    1080i and 720p material downconverted to 576i can often look better than 576i native material.

    It is therefore possible that 1080p sourced material (delivered 1080i but with no movement between fields in the case of 24p/25p/30p stuff) will look better downconverted to 720p than 720p native - for the same reasons.

    Oversampling and other issues can't be ignored.

    Whilst D1 and 1" VTRs both outperform VHS - you can tell the difference on VHS copies made from the different sources.
     
  14. richard plumb

    richard plumb
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    720p is great for sport and fast moving stuff.

    Move up to 1080i for movies and content requiring more 'detail'. Ideally combine this with a deinterlacer to get 1080p/25 (really ideally 1080p/24 if the screens supported it)

    Then for movies and documentaries etc, we have the benefits of resolution and no nasty interlacing.

    Nothing should be shot truly interlaced IMO.

    then eventually, slowly, you move to 1080p/50 for sports etc, once everyone has 1080 panels.
     
  15. binbag

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    I'll not argue that Stephen but the OP is talking about upscaling a DVD and it doesn't matter how hard you shake the bottle there ain't enough info in that signal to call it HD. Now (unlike many) he has grasped this but is still applying what he has read here and elsewhere to the figures that he sees on his menus. And if he wasn't clear at the start of the thread the tonnage of lines / frames / fields thrown out so far will mean he's even more muddled.


    My advice to the OP (with apologies for the assumptions) is simply to try as many variants of settings on both source and display with a good quality example of what you usually watch. When you've found the one you like best, sit down, open a can and enjoy your purchase. Don't worry too much about the figures - it's the picture that counts.
     
  16. Stephen Neal

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    Ah - I didn't think the OP was talking about the settings for his upscaling DVD player - I thought he was asking about the differences between the two common HD formats he could expect to feed into his new display when HD sources became available!
     

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