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Having trouble selling

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by AndyFov, Mar 21, 2005.

  1. AndyFov

    AndyFov
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    I have my NEC 9PG on the classifieds board for £600, but have been figuring I'd accept anthing over £400 should it be offered for it. With a few days and a few hundred views, I've had no response whatsoever.

    I'm left wondering whether it's:

    a) Horribly over-priced
    b) Completely unwanted
    c) Unsaleable.

    I really don't have a clue what it's worth, I just know it's a damn fine pj properly setup, well, it is for a 7incher, and it knocks spots off my old Seleco 400 when run with the HTPC.

    I'm left with a bit of a dilemma, I had planned to take the leap to LCD, as the NEC is currently floor-mounted, and the kids are encroaching on its floorspace, also bearing in mind I'm a fairly light user of AV kit now compared to a couple of years ago, it kinda made sense to put it up for sale.

    Now I'm coming to terms with the fact that no one seems to want it, I'm leaning towards keeping it, maybe even ceiling mounting it - that depends on whether my ebay bid for a ceiling bracket isn't outbid. :)

    Just wondered here whether anybody here could advise me on what it's worth, (1300hrs, no burn that I'm aware of) and whether I'm likely to find anyone who'd give it a good home if I persevere. My reasons for wanting to defect to the LCD camp are still valid, but I had been banking on my NEC being worth enough to help me on my way - anyone know whether it is?

    TIA

    Andy
     
  2. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Basically I think you've just found out that the value of s/h CRT's is not high...especially ones where the spares are not plentiful or cheap. If it's all working then it's a bargain at that price though.....imho. I think you should just persevere.

    Gordon
     
  3. AndyFov

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    Yes, it's all working glitch free. Just needing a bit of a loving touch - a dust of the lenses, a paint of the case, that sort of thing.

    I can now add "Bargain", says Gordon ISF Fraser to my sales pitch. If that doesn't shift the thing I don't know what will.

    I bought it from CogPaul last year. He was having similar problems finding a buyer, and it seemed like a lot of projector for the cash in my own unqualified opinion, so I jumped on it. Now a year on, I'm in the same boat.

    Thanks very much for the appraisal Gordon, much appreciated... But a 4 minute response time? What kept you? ;)

    Andy
     
  4. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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  5. AndyFov

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    Yes, come to think of it you did greyscales for him. I'd forgotten that.
     
  6. helipilot

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    Sorry to hear of your plight Andy,

    It appears to be the state of the market. I think we might have to face that the majority of people no longer want CRT's. I am in a similar position to yourself, having bought a couple of Barco 701 projectors from a friend who has emigrated. I was hoping to get £400-£500 for the best one and around £100 for the spares machine. I too have had barely a sniff of interest despite having the projectors advertised on the forum for several weeks.

    I might be interested in your projector as a spares machine as I already run a NEC 9PG.

    Another possibilty is that we might see a projector swap market appear as few people seem to value them anymore.

    Interetesed in a swap ? Barco 701 S + Barco 701 spares machine = Nec 9PG ? :devil:

    Seriously though, we might be able to come to some arrangement.
     
  7. AndyFov

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    Hmm, not too sure about that arrangement, I just see myself ending up with 2 CRTs to offload instead of just the one. :)

    If you are interesting in swagging the 9PG though, it's perhaps for the best if we trash something out on the relevant board.
     
  8. helipilot

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    agreed, but I really don't want to "trash" your NEC :)
     
  9. GagHalfrunt

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    I think that one of the problems is a lot of people who still want to go with CRT would probably go for a 8 incher or bigger.

    I am currently in the dilemma of being projector-less. I am deciding between a digital or 8+ inch CRT. The jury's still out.
     
  10. AndyFov

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    I think that's partly it. Though size isn't everything. I also think NEC is a brand few appreciate this side of the Atlantic. They've a cult following on AVSforums that simply doesn't seem to exist over here.

    I funny how I was prepared to exploit the lack of demand for CRT to swag a real bargain when I bought the NEC, and now I'm the seller I'm hit by the injustice that it's worth less still. I suppose I just want to be glad that I didn't pay £10k for the thing! :)
     
  11. crteaman

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    Trust me guy's, At this point in time the crt market is not in decline,last week alone I worked 107 hours and covered 1250 miles from saturday morning to the following saturday evening :suicide:
    As pointed out by Gaghalfrunt the market has simply shifted upwards,six years ago a mint 808s made around 4-6000 quid today guess what they make....the very same amount,I know a guy who sold a 8500,G70,8110 and a runco 992 last week alone,fair enough I know by saying i'm very busy may not stand for much as i'm in an incredibly niche area,its just that my work schedule has not changed at all over the last few years,its just constant.
    BTW andy,hope to get the 9500 built up any day now,with reference to the mini event.

    james
     
  12. Vince M

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    I agree with this,Older 7" crts are a tougher sell-though I could sell Runco DTV 943`S(Cine 7) with low hours and good tubes every day of the week-if I could get `em! :) ..D50`S are still quite popular.as are Runco variants of the PG series and the Zenith 900..
    Quality 8" have indeed held their money rather well-again I speak of low hour/good tubes,excellent condition examples.

    By the same token,iffy tubed,average condition and/or high hour models can be picked up for peanuts -as they could last year.
    Same as ..same as..

    At the other end of the spectrum top quality 9" are very..very hard to come by, mainly because people that have G90`S,Marquee 9501LC`s, Cine 9`s or Runco 1200`s dont sell `em!
    As an example,last week worldwide ,there were only 8 - 9" crt`s available on the s/hand market from private individuals.
    Only 5 of these were worth a look -only 2 of them would I have considered worth buying.

    So where are ALL these 9" crt`s IF people are moving towards 3 chip dlp etc.?(Id like to know:)

    By contrast,look at the thousands of DLP`s and LCD`S available for sale weekly.

    The evidence suggests the contrary. :thumbsup:

    A good 9" crt under 10k is a bargain because what else at that price equals it-let alone beat it?

    And maybe thats the answer in a nutshell,when the time to buy a high end digital?,,When you start seeing loads of 9" crt`s for sale!!! :smashin:
     
  13. AndyFov

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    Well, I've given up trying to sell it for the minute. I had lowered my asking price to £325 at one point.

    If it was an old RCF or video grade Seleco or something I could understand it, but it's hi-def capable with colour corrected lenses, low-hours, good tubes, with remotes and service manual - I'd have thought that there are people out there with ultimate aspirations of owning a g90 or whatever, but willing to give a good home to a decent stepping-stone. I suppose it's supply and demand - too many good but not outstanding crts available to a decreasing set of people who are prepared to accomodate them.

    I'm now torn between keeping it and giving ebay a whirl. The long and short of it is that it throws out a better image than the Sony HS10 I bought to replace it... I'm beginning to think that I have perhaps had the wrong projector for sale. :)
     
  14. guyvert1

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    Andy,

    I had the same problem a few months back trying to sell a couple of mint, well sorted Electrohome Marquee 7500's, around 2k hrs on clock, like new... Though £1300 odd was a bargain, but very little interest.. Ended up putting them in storage for a rainy day :)
     
  15. Vince M

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    Andy,
    Dont panic mate! the 9PG is a cracking machine,but with no disrespect to HCC,their classifiied section doesnt have a huge audience :)
    That is the main reason your 9PG is not selling,the other KEY point is that NEC is not that well known in the u.k..
    The last point is that sometimes something can be TOO cheap-people think theres something wrong.
    What I would do in your shoes,is-(pardon the expression)-go the other way..by which I mean-trade in you 9PG for an 8"-then -as a tip,I wouldnt accept any less than 500 quid for the 9PG.
    As a private sale on E-Bay? I would start it at 750 and see what happens..
     
  16. Vince M

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    Was that 1300 each..or for the two?
     
  17. guyvert1

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  18. Vince M

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    One big thing against you with these-age of the model-thats all..potential power supply probs on pre 8000 Marquees..needs the mod..
     
  19. guyvert1

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    James @ CRT told me on the year mine were (1997) there were no PSU issues!.. In fact I had him service both of them, to which they got a clean bill of health :)
     
  20. PsychoDogBeast

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    Hi there all

    Deleted, because i have no interest in arguing!!!!!!

    All the best

    James
     
  21. Vince M

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    James,
    Let me try and explain,you cannot base the market worth of an item on a similar poor condition item sold by a private seller,
    Thats not to say that all private sales are rubbish-there are a few true bargains to be sifted out.-But this has been covered before-one needs to determine this by SEEING THE ITEM,seeing video through it,looking at a whitescreen,checking the hours.asking to look at the actual tubes if not a crt seller.
    NO picture is a replacement of the reality-it can be indicative thats all-and at best a representation of the reality.
    I would certainly not buy off a private seller without determining in person the actual status of given crt.

    I have tried to make the point many times that if someone thinks they have a bargain because its £500-then they find it needs two tubes-it aint much of a bargain!..because dependant on the model-you could then be looking at a cost coming right upto 3k!

    NOW in those circumstances wouldnt it have been better to buy one with three mint tubes from someone reputable?..and in fact have paid less?
    I KNOW as a crt buyer/seller how difficult it is to track down TRUE good examples to sell at a reasonable price..but things like 701`s..700`s,older Selecos like 195`s etc..I wouldnt touch with a bargepole-and when I have its been on PX if they have been decent examples-then I have knocked them out for a couple of hundred quid..

    Crt prices on cheaper models are as cheap as last year..and many are being dumped for silly money..older Barco 8" are being dumped for the 1k ish mark..

    But try and find a prisitine,low hour Marquee 8501LC ..or a G70..or a 135LC..or a Runco DTV 992 ULTRA for 1500 squid...you wont.. :)
     
  22. Vince M

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    What was James assesment on the tubes?
     
  23. Boris Blank

    Boris Blank
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    I would certainly not buy off a private seller without determining in person the actual status of given crt.

    But hang on a minute, you bought an NEC XG from a private Ebay seller in the US not so long ago - did you see these tubes in person before purchasing?

    But try and find a prisitine,low hour Marquee 8501LC ..or a G70..or a 135LC..or a Runco DTV 992 ULTRA for 1500 squid...you wont.. :)

    Apart from the G70, the rest are as rare as hen's teeth in the UK so would attract a premium price by default - if you could find one that is, pristine or (more likely) not. G70's are appearing more frequently now though and £1500 for a decent model could very well be acheivable. I sold my NEC XG last year on Ebay for well over £2k, your own current identical Ebay XG is priced to buy at just over £1500. Surely as a professional reputable seller, by your own crtiteria your XG should be selling at a higher price than my own did?

    Paul
     
  24. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Incidentally for those interested....Runco 992Ultra was OEM'd by Barco and is based on Cine8

    Gordon
     
  25. Vince M

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    Last year I sold about 80 crt`s-I could have sold double that easily,this year already I have smashed last years first qtr,I sold 5 last week! With no disrespect intended I think I have a fair idea of what the value of crts in the marketplace is! :smashin:
    Now If i bought a duff `un in that 80-I would take the hit,its not the same for a private buyer that cant afford to make one bad purchase-nor can I ,but at least I could offset the "loss".
    Fortunately yet I havent bought a duff `un-thats because of very-very careful selection.I spend thousands of hours searching and I have 12 years worth of contacts to draw from-to the extent that if i wanted a Marquee i know exactly where to source..If i wanted a G70..same scenario etc..etc..
     
  26. Vince M

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    I sold my NEC XG last year on Ebay for well over £2k, your own current identical Ebay XG is priced to buy at just over £1500. Surely as a professional reputable seller, by your own crtiteria your XG should be selling at a higher price than my own did?

    ..As a bit more background to this Paul, the NEC on E-Bay sold for £2250 first time around..as I took it back as an upgrade to a 9501LC-I decided to knock it out..then I had a guy press the BIN and not complete-turns out to be a nutter with no money!-This is the first crt in almost 2 years thats been around longer than a couple of weeks-most crts I have are sold in UNDER two weeks-
    So for me,it was hanging around a little long-so someones going to get one heck of a bargain because its a cracker for the money!
     
  27. Boris Blank

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    I think I'm going to stop now as every reply in this thread seems to end up being a sales pitch for non-private sellers!

    Best of luck with the sale Andy, looks like Ebay is your best bet. Shame that no-one here is interested, sign of the times I suppose.
    Paul
     
  28. Paul D

    Paul D
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    I agree the market has moved up, newbies now buy mainly digital and not the 6"/7" like they used too.
    But the NEC 9/10 both punch well above there weight, and should still be in great demand.(parts problems a side)
    I tried to buy a NEC10PG from Gordon, but alas it was promised to someone else.
    Maybe if i had managed to get that one, i would still be with CRT.

    High-Def availability means people need a projector capable of displaying a sharp "High-Def" image, meaning 8"+.

    But your price seems amazingly low, so seems odd that someone wanting to dip their toe doesn't take a chance with it.

    Although CRTs are still selling well for now, and James is very busy i feel it is still a shrinking pond.
    Gordon would be a better judge as to the true state of the market trend.
    He isn't tied to any of the available projection methods, and if he says he is starting to see a shift, then i believe him.

    My Barco 808s was a high hours, but very good condition unit(unmarked tubes). It was expertly setup by Roland(B4 projection).
    I paid about £2500 and sold it for £1000 with a new paint job and scaler/leads. I would have gotten a better price had i traded in with Roland, but i will explain below why i didn't do this.
    New tubes may have given me more sharpness (for a while), but a 9" model would have been needed to get me even close to what i wanted.

    Certain people keep stating that only people with worn/tired 8" change to digital projectors. And that those with pristine 9" models have yet to swap.

    The reason for this might be that there is very little difference between an average 8" CRT and HD2+(DC3) DLP in picture quality terms.
    Crt scores in some areas, DLP in others.

    I have a worn/tired 8" so i :-

    A: Spend £4,000 to £7,000 on a brand new, hassle free super sharp DLP. (i admit you lose some picture qualities, but gain others)

    B: Spend £1000-£2000 for "new" tubes, but still suffer haloing(non LC models), 8" limitations and other "used" equipment problems.

    C: Spend £8-10,000 (plus scaler) on a pristine but used 9" like say a 1209s with all the bells(CC filters etc)

    My original preference was to go with "C", from B4 projection/CRTprojectors. Cheaper deals could be had, but their expertise and back up are second to NONE! (i couldn't help searching elsewhere, and realised very very low hour 1209s could be had for over £4000 less :eek: )

    What was the main reason that stopped me?(other than practicalities)
    Well it wasn't picture quality!

    It was reselling a few years down the road.
    I felt like i was buying a Vauxhall. Get a lot for your money now, but in a couple of years, be prepared to have your pants pulled down!
    I watch lads at work who are caught in this trap. One by one they all turn up a in a new Vauxhall, even though they hate them. But they re-buy because Vauxhall give them the only reasonable trade in price.

    So the thought of planting £12,000(1209s+Scaler), and maybe even £25,000(Cine 9) on a CRT (as i very nearly did), terrified me.
    I did reason that once i bought one of these, that i wouldn't want anything else digital or CRT... :)

    So this maybe answers the second question of why not many High end CRT owners have defected to digital yet.
    Before people with a "vested" interest in CRT jump down my throat, i agree the main reason is CRT picture quality still hasn't been totally surpassed.
    But imagine how many have invested serious amounts of cash in their high end CRTs, and must be very reluctant to take a big hit. Especially when most of their advice will be from the very people who deal/service their projectors.

    People in the know, who want the best on a small to medium screen will still buy CRT. And they will be prepared to give it the time and effort it requires.

    But others won't, and those that want/need large screens won't even see CRT as an option.

    It was the news of SXRD and Eclipse technology that finally made my mind up.
    I didn't want to get stuck in the CRT trade-in cycle.
    I knew i wanted to be able to enjoy the new machines, and their qualities only digital can give(pin sharp focus/brightness/colours corner to corner) when using a PC, and yet give a cracking picture for films as well.

    I spent £7000 on a fit and forget ie "watch movies machine", which is perfect for my PC.(Multi-Media Machine)
    When the time comes to move up to 1920x1080, it will be an easy sale to friends. (i will still probably lose a bundle though!)

    Things happening this year:-

    1920x1080 DLP (single and 3 chip)

    SXRD/S-Lcos finally filtering down in price.

    Dynamic Iris technology maturing/evolving, and hopefully the emergence of the long awaited Eclipse technology.

    A general downward trend in all digital projection prices, or at least an upgrade in spec for the same price.

    -----------------------------------

    What will happen to used CRT prices over the next couple years?....nothing? (sorry i don't buy it :rolleyes: )

    Ps
    Andy
    sorry if my post comes across as a little frank/abrupt, but i get tired of the same responses from certain (not all) people who have a vested interest in CRT.
    Who seem to take an "Elitist" stance whenever CRT is mentioned.
    They just seem to insult my (and others) opinions, stating i either need my eyes/sanity testing, or that my CRT was a dog.(directly and indirectly)
    I studied long and hard, having countless demo's before choosing to move on.
    In fact i'm surprised you haven't been insulted yet for even considering going digital! :D
     
  29. Vince M

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    Paul,
    If your referring to me-I think you better stop-because trying to explain the market value of crt and using examples to try and show it, is NOT a sales pitch.
    Sign of the times? I think we have covered why Andy may be having difficulty selling a certain crt and I think there have been some decent suggestions to assist.
    But I assume you no longer have a crt-so why the almost "holy crusade" to damn crt `s and their worth?
     
  30. guyvert1

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    +8
    Crikey, lots of chat!...

    I agree with alot of what 'PaulD' says, albeit in a more backseat stance. I dipped my toe in CRT after trying LCD (HS10), then stumbling upon a chance to get into CRT.

    I must say I was blown away by James 9501LC with D-VHS, but who wouldnt, proper high-end.

    My main problem was the sheer size of the beasts, I thought I could live with it, but sadly not.

    Its very obvious to anyone who's got on eye on places like ebay etc to see CRT's are a plenty, with some real bargains to be had by the shrewd ones.

    However, as stated above, DLP/LCD's are getting better, and quickly, not to mention prices.

    A big percentage of AV guys will be into projectors, a very small percentage will know or have seen a high-end CRT, those who do know will either have one, or have considered but rejected for various reasons.

    Therefore whether or not CRT prices are tumbling, I really don't think it will attract alot of new buyers, apart from the h/core who are waiting patiently for the top 3 9" ones to come into sight.

    I'm sitting on my two E/Marquee 8" ones as I know at some point I'll come across some one who really wants them, or I'll find another use for them :)

    PS. Vince, never remember James talking about numbers on the tubes, just that one was VERY good, the other only slightly under the 1st...But very good for non LC :)
     

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