Have my speakers blown or is it my amp.

[clarky78]

I put this in hifi speakers because my speakers are Stereo speakers but used in an average system.

I have a Marant SR7010 and my main speakers are Amphion Argons 3S. Centre is MA Radius 225 and 45 rears. I recently added some Dali C-1 Atmos speakers and recently after that I was watching Ready Player One and during bass scenes my speakers now go 'whup' and it's like they are reaching full excursion, cones move massively. This happens at most volumes down to -45db on the amp. Now it happens any time there is low frequency.

But, if I listen in stereo it doesn't happen. I tried running frequency samples from 2hz upwards and nothing. There is a small crackle sometimes as the frequency changes..

What is it? I presumed my speakers blew, but they are fine for music. I'm thinking my amp can't cope, but it's still a decent av amp.

 

[Stinger69]

It sounds like your surround speakers are receiving the lfe (low frequency effects) channel which is why they're ok with normal stereo. Are you running a sub? What is the crossover point for the speakers having the issue? Are they set up to receive the lfe channel? If they are, normal speakers aren't great at dealing with bass like that. It tends to cause massive excursion without any audible output, apart from the "wup" sound that you describe.

Edit: If you have got a subwoofer, set all the other speakers to "small" there is usually a setting for this somewhere.

Andy

 

[clarky78]

It sounds like your surround speakers are receiving the lfe (low frequency effects) channel which is why they're ok with normal stereo. Are you running a sub? What is the crossover point for the speakers having the issue? Are they set up to receive the lfe channel? If they are, normal speakers aren't great at dealing with bass like that. It tends to cause massive excursion without any audible output, apart from the "wup" sound that you describe.

Edit: If you have got a subwoofer, set all the other speakers to "small" there is usually a setting for this somewhere.

Andy

No sub, I bought the Argon 3S instead of Argon 1 because I don't run a sub. Never have though, and never had this problem...

 

[Stinger69]

Is it all speakers that suffer from the large excursion?

Andy

 

[BlueWizard]

... I recently added some Dali C-1 Atmos speakers and recently after that I was watching Ready Player One and during bass scenes my speakers now go 'whup' and it's like they are reaching full excursion, cones move massively. ...

Did you re-run the Setup Program after you changed the speakers?

Also maker sure the system is set to SMALL, assuming you have a Subwoofer. Especially on the ATMOS speakers. SMALL diverts the bass away for the other speakers and pushes it onto the Sub where it belongs.

The Setup Program (Audyssey or whatever) apply EQ to the System. The EQ for the Dali might be very different than the EQ for the Original speakers.

Also, if you have not Run the Setup Program, and adjusted the Amp, it might be treating the ATMOS Channels as standard Surround Channels. The Amp has to know that those specific channels are ATMOS not Surround.

Also - " ... during bass scenes my speakers now go 'whup'..." What does that mean? What Speakers? All Speakers? ATMOS Speakers? Front Speakers? Other?

Steve/bluewizard[/QUOTE]

 

[Rockets]

No sub, I bought the Argon 3S instead of Argon 1 because I don't run a sub. Never have though, and never had this problem...

You do realise in reality that av receiver probably isn't capable of putting all the difficult to drive watts out that the sub would take up normally for low frequency. Never mind the hi-fi speakers are never mean't to take up the sub effects - it's way beyond what they are designed for (I know you can set to but just don't).
Not only that even with large speakers the current thinking is set them to small and let the sub take up the brunt.

 

[John7]

He hasn’t got a sub in his system....

 

[Rockets]

He hasn’t got a sub in his system....

Which is the problem and the question is just why? Makes no sense.

The recipe for ruining every single speaker you have running.

 

[BlueWizard]

He hasn’t got a sub in his system....

If the Amp/Receiver allows it, you still need to limit Low Frequencies to all the speaker except the Front. I would speculate 10hz above the rated low end of all the speakers, except the Front.

The Amphion Argons 3S while good are not large speakers. There is only so much they can do.

https://amphion.fi/enjoy/products-home-audio/argon3s-bookshelf-loudspeaker/

Drivers -
1" titanium tweeter
6.5" aluminum woofer

Frequency response -
38 – 25.000 Hz -6dB

Frequency response is good for a Bookshelf Music speakers, but straining for deep movie sound tracks.

By the way, those Amphion speakers are listed at US$1345 EACH. How did such expensive speakers get into this system, and into a system without a Sub?

Steve/bluewizard

 

[clarky78]

Which is the problem and the question is just why? Makes no sense.

The recipe for ruining every single speaker you have running.

Have never run a sub, in 20 years, never blown a speaker, Mission 733i, Kef IQ7, MA GX200, and now Amphion. NEVER blown a speaker. I don't run subs because I never live in detached houses.

 

[clarky78]

If the Amp/Receiver allows it, you still need to limit Low Frequencies to all the speaker except the Front. I would speculate 10hz above the rated low end of all the speakers, except the Front.

The Amphion Argons 3S while good are not large speakers. There is only so much they can do.

https://amphion.fi/enjoy/products-home-audio/argon3s-bookshelf-loudspeaker/

Drivers -
1" titanium tweeter
6.5" aluminum woofer

Frequency response -
38 – 25.000 Hz -6dB

Frequency response is good for a Bookshelf Music speakers, but straining for deep movie sound tracks.

By the way, those Amphion speakers are listed at US$1345 EACH. How did such expensive speakers get into this system, and into a system without a Sub?

Steve/bluewizard

They replaced Monitor Audio GX200... which were more... I have no idea how the cost matters! The amp was almost top model, so I don't see the mismatch, the rest handed over from the match with the MA prior. Dali added for Atmos and testing purposes.

 

[BlueWizard]

Did you re-run the Setup Program after you changed the speakers?

...

The Setup Program (Audyssey or whatever) apply EQ to the System. The EQ for the Dali might be very different than the EQ for the Original speakers.

Also, if you have not Run the Setup Program, and adjusted the Amp, it might be treating the ATMOS Channels as standard Surround Channels. The Amp has to know that those specific channels are ATMOS not Surround.

Also - " ... during bass scenes my speakers now go 'whup'..." What does that mean? What Speakers? All Speakers? ATMOS Speakers? Front Speakers? Other?

Steve/bluewizard

 

[John7]

You need to go to your receiver's settings menu and set the subwoofer option to "No" or whatever the option for no subwoofer is. Then run the receiver's calibration mode and let it set all the speakers correctly.

The reason you don't get the extreme excursion in stereo mode is because most receivers disable LFE in that mode and run the main speakers at their standard crossover points. So, it seems you have your receiver set incorrectly (IMHO).

 

[Rockets]

You need to go to your receiver's settings menu and set the subwoofer option to "No" or whatever the option for no subwoofer is. Then run the receiver's calibration mode and let it set all the speakers correctly.

The reason you don't get the extreme excursion in stereo mode is because most receivers disable LFE in that mode and run the main speakers at their standard crossover points. So, it seems you have your receiver set incorrectly (IMHO).

So setting the receiver to send more bass through the speakers would cure this problem in what way??

Anyway he already has it set to no sub which is probably where the problem is coming from. Too much bass from a film sound track or the amplifier is clipping trying to muster the cruuent and watts required.

 

[Rockets]

Have never run a sub, in 20 years, never blown a speaker, Mission 733i, Kef IQ7, MA GX200, and now Amphion. NEVER blown a speaker. I don't run subs because I never live in detached houses.

So lets look at this. On previous speakers if they simply can't output that frequency they won't. This would also give your receiver a break.

But now your new speakers can extend far more, no full sub woofer but close to that frequency suddenly you are using a lot more watts/current.

Also because these new speakers can capture these lower frequencies (which the previous ones could not) you are getting into the real danger zone of chucking the mid/main clean out the cabinet.

Movie sound tracks simply are not designed to run the sub channel on normal stereo speakers nor power from the av receiver. It is fair to brutal.

Anyway a simple answer to this is probably run the av on night mode which will limit the low range and impact massively.

 

[John7]

So setting the receiver to send more bass through the speakers would cure this problem in what way??

Anyway he already has it set to no sub which is probably where the problem is coming from. Too much bass from a film sound track or the amplifier is clipping trying to muster the cruuent and watts required.

No, it's the opposite. If the receiver is set to "NO SUB PRESENT" and the calibration properly run, only bass that the speakers can handle will be sent to them, i.e LFE will not be passed through.

"Anyway he already has it set to no sub" - he hasn't explicitly stated that he has set it correctly, so the advice given is to check for correct settings. Mistakes happen...…...

 

[lindsayt]

BlueWizard has hit the nail on the head.

Film sound tracks, especially modern ones have a lot of low frequency sound effects. For immersion in the film, to send a physical shock wave through the cinema / AV room.

I don't run a sub woofer in my AV system, but my main fronts have 15" bass drivers. I have them set to "Large" in my AV receiver's settings.
I'm looking at making a pair of DIY subs from professional 18" drivers.

I would strongly recommend that Clarky78 gets a sub. Even if it's a cheapo 2nd hand or DIY one. And then sets all his existing speakers to "small" in his AV receiver.

 

[clarky78]

Did you re-run the Setup Program after you changed the speakers?

...

The Setup Program (Audyssey or whatever) apply EQ to the System. The EQ for the Dali might be very different than the EQ for the Original speakers.

Also, if you have not Run the Setup Program, and adjusted the Amp, it might be treating the ATMOS Channels as standard Surround Channels. The Amp has to know that those specific channels are ATMOS not Surround.

Also - " ... during bass scenes my speakers now go 'whup'..." What does that mean? What Speakers? All Speakers? ATMOS Speakers? Front Speakers? Other?

Steve/bluewizard

Yes I ran it, only the front right channel is doing it. It's the channel, not the speaker, changing speaker still does it.

 

[clarky78]

So lets look at this. On previous speakers if they simply can't output that frequency they won't. This would also give your receiver a break.

But now your new speakers can extend far more, no full sub woofer but close to that frequency suddenly you are using a lot more watts/current.

Also because these new speakers can capture these lower frequencies (which the previous ones could not) you are getting into the real danger zone of chucking the mid/main clean out the cabinet.

Movie sound tracks simply are not designed to run the sub channel on normal stereo speakers nor power from the av receiver. It is fair to brutal.

Anyway a simple answer to this is probably run the av on night mode which will limit the low range and impact massively.

Makes no sense, the previous 3 speakers I mentioned are all floorstanders and capable of going lower than my bookshelfs..

It's only one channel, and not the speaker at fault.

 

[clarky78]

Video displaying the right channel going mental watching Monsters University, The event is just dance music playing not explosions so nothing to do with needing a sub.

 

[BlueWizard]

...

Video displaying the right channel going mental watching Monsters University, The event is just dance music playing not explosions so nothing to do with needing a sub.

So, the problem is in one FRONT Speaker Channel, and is not related to the Speakers. That is, you can place any speaker on that channel and observe the same problem?

Is that correct?

Go into the menus and check the setting on the two front speakers, and make sure they are relatively the same. Setup Programs usually get pretty close, but they don't always get it right.

Assuming, you can do this, and with the Marantz should. See if the level compensation is the same on both speakers. For example, when balancing the speakers, the SetUp might set one to +2 and the other to 0 (zero). But if it has set one Front channel to +6 and the other to -3, then clearly there is a problem.

Also, if the information is available, check to see if any crossover has been applied to the Front Channels. There really shouldn't be any, but you don't know until you check.

Various aspects of the room could cause the SetUp Program to make imbalanced setting. You might be getting a reflection of a nearby wall or table or whatever, that is causing it to lower that channel. The other channels might be more in the open, and it might set that level higher. Or an assortment of other reasons.

Check the channel level compensation setting and see if they make sense. Like I said, for various reasons, the SetUp doesn't always get it right. Also consider if there is anything about the placement or the room that could cause SetUp to mistake or misinterpret the channel volume measurement, which is what it is using to set the Channel Level.

If you have a perfectly symmetrical system, with no obstructions or reflecting surfaces near by, the channel level compensation should be identical.

Just trying to work through the possibilities.

Steve/bluewizard

 

[clarky78]

Yes right CHANNEL only. Amp had a full reset. No setting is causing it. It's a physical fault somewhere.

 

[BlueWizard]

Yes right CHANNEL only. Amp had a full reset. No setting is causing it. It's a physical fault somewhere.

Does this happen regardless of the Input Source - Radio, Turntable, CD Player, BluRay, other?

If you can pick up a good quality radio station, that would be a good test because it doesn't require any external Cables. If you can duplicate the problem with the Radio, then likely something has gone wrong with the Amp.

However, if you can not duplicate the problem with the radio, then that pushes the usual suspect toward cables and interconnects.

If it is a Cable problem that likely isolates the problem to a single Input Source. For example, if the CD cable has a problem, then that is only going to show up on the CD.

Make sure all connections are clean and tight. If this is a digital connection, the same. Make sure no dust or lint has infiltrated. Make sure the cable's internal wires are sound.

You just have to work out a logical process of testing that will allow you to isolate the problem down to a specific component.

Steve/bluewizard

 

[clarky78]

It happens on mostly Blu-ray's, and Netflix via TV arc. Also on Xbox. No way all the cables are faulty. As mentioned it didn't happen with music (except from movies)

 

[BlueWizard]

It happens on mostly Blu-ray's, and Netflix via TV arc. Also on Xbox. No way all the cables are faulty. As mentioned it didn't happen with music (except from movies)

"No way all the cables are faulty." Which is exactly the point I was making.

Try NOT using ARC, instead take the Optical/Coaxial Digital Audio Out of the TV and go into the appropriate DAC connection on the Amp.

Again, it is about the process of elimination. You have to try every option to isolate the problem.

Steve/Bluewizard