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Have I made the right choice of do I send back my HG10?

thejollyboys

Active Member
Guy's,

As per my previous post I now have a Canon HG10. I have a couple of questions that I just want clarifying, to convince myself I have made the right choice for my budget.

1. I got the cam last night so did some shooting indoors under artificial light. I was not overly impressed with the results. But reading on here a lot of the consumer models suffer with low light issues anyway?

2. How do I get the video off the cam and on the PC and edit it and produce a hi def film. I've tried power director and that converts the files from mts to mpeg2 does this mean they are no longer HD?

Thanks

Andy.
 

senu

Distinguished Member
Guy's,

As per my previous post I now have a Canon HG10. I have a couple of questions that I just want clarifying, to convince myself I have made the right choice for my budget.

1. I got the cam last night so did some shooting indoors under artificial light. I was not overly impressed with the results. But reading on here a lot of the consumer models suffer with low light issues anyway?
I agree but while low light shooting is not to be recommended, I wonder what you wish to replace it with that will have more impressive low light ability
Sometimes knowing the limitations of the kit is the key to getting the best from it.
All camcorders love better light and this is no different. Also the format is less sympathetic to low light than SD tape or HDV. Ive however seen some SD tape and HDD camcorders whose low light ability sucks
Have you tried it in better light.. the inclement weather has not been great TBH
Also what menu settings have you tried?

2. How do I get the video off the cam and on the PC and edit it and produce a hi def film. I've tried power director and that converts the files from mts to mpeg2 does this mean they are no longer HD?
No it doesnt. What it means is that on the PC currently no software outputs back to AVCHD after editing. The mpeg2 files are 1080i sama as you get from the ( HDV tape ones). Imovie08 on the mac is said to output back to AVCHD.
In a way AVCHD is thought ( not unreasonably by some) to be a "temporary codec" to allow a lot HI def video to be recorded onto a card or HDD without filling it up rapidly. Im not sure it was ( initially intended to be edited):eek:!
That you now have it as mpeg2 doesnt mean it is not HD ( unless you have not specified HD output and inadvertently converted it to SD mpeg2) but you lose the space saved by AVCHD, nothing else

If you can persevere a bit%2
 

thejollyboys

Active Member
thanks for the reply senu maybe I have a touch of the grass is always greener.

I have tried cine mode which was ok. I then tried night mode which just made things move really jurkey like in slow motion.

You're right though what else is out there to really improve significantly for that price?

Can you recommend an edit package for pc?

I'm going to give the bundled software a go tonight.

Also I have a ps3 how do I play the avchd on it, is there an easy way?

Thanks

Andy.
 

MagicRabbit

Standard Member
I'm looking at the HV20 instead - it's HDV, and I don't think tape is as convenient as hard drive, but the quality (especially in low light) is better.

Interesting that you're experiencing exactly what I feared would happen on an AVCHD based device though!


MPEG2 has no limit on the size or frame rate of the image. It's possible to create footage well in excess of the quality of HD.... just not with a camcorder! I have some MPEG2 clips that are 2048x1536 at 50fps (non-interlaced) which came from an animation package.



I've just been recommended Sony Vegas Studio Platinum, which I am experimenting with at the moment (trial available) and I have to say it looks very good! It's about £60, and says it edits AVCHD as well as HDV.



To play AVCHD on a PS3 you just need to burn it onto a DVD. I've not tried it myself, but I'm lead to believe you can literally just copy the files, no processing required!


Quite a few editing programs say they can create AVCHD format (though not having Blue-Ray or a PS3 I've not tried) including Corel VideoStudio 11.5 Plus, and Sony Vegas (which I'm using now).

Bundled software is almost always a complete disappointment. I have a Canon 20D (DSLR) and the software supplied with that was very poor.
 

alpine101

Active Member
I'm actually quite impressed by the room light output from my SD1. It works very well in my sitting room which is lit by only 2 40watt wall lights and a 40watt table lamp.
The night mode is extraordinary, for someone who hasn't had this on their old camcorders. It does run at a slow 'shutter' speed, so is jerky, but makes our road look like pink daylight! Outside shots at dusk look like midday.
The SD1 is 3 CCDs of course compared to the HG10's CMOS sensor.
 

thejollyboys

Active Member
Thanks guys,

the sd1 sounds good but is out of my price range. I managed to get the canon for 549 at empiredirect which I thought was a great price.

Do I just burn the mts files to a normal DVD disk and put it in the ps3?
 

senu

Distinguished Member
To play on the PS3 just burn the files as a data DVD disc and play them off the disc
I believe only the imovie 08 (MAC) ans not the Vegas or Ulead software can output AVCHD as HD. Some software can output H.264 for say PSP but not hi def resolutions
It is actually worth disabling some of the Menu enhancing features of the HG 10 to see how the camcorder works without them
I would suggest that the Low light performance is above average although as stated in previous post still has a long way to go compared to SD or HDV
Im not sure how 3ccds compare with 1CMOS. i thin it is a limitation of implementation of the technology and format. The ecxellent Sony HC1,5,7, and Canon HV10 and 20 dont have 3CCDs but work very well for coluor and low light
Off Topic
I have the Canon30D DSLR and to be honest Digital Photo Professional ( bundled with it )is very good although it seems to present a Bland GUI.Althouh I now use Lightroom i still use DPP fairly frequently. DPPis now in ver 3.02 worth trying alpine 101
Im not a great fan of Zoombrowser but It is way more than Nikon supply with thier DSLRs
Zommbrowser will not replace Photshop or elements but it is definitely better than most camcorder bundled software
 

thejollyboys

Active Member
thanks again guys

I don't think I want to write back in avchd I just want to produce hi def movies of our new baby to arrive in April.

I'll have a good play tonight and update you tomorrow. Trouble is it's dark when I get home.

What would I do without this site?

thanks

Andy.
 

senu

Distinguished Member
I would have rated it as passable... but then I'm a Photoshop CS2 fan.;) :D
To be fair though DPP is more for processing RAW files and isnt pretending to replace Photoshop
In addition to emulating Picture styles in software, its noise reduction, Sharpness and WB controls are very subtle but effective, and as a RAW converter, it is quite fast
Extending this analogy to Camcorder bundled software would be like Sony bundling a lite version of Vegas Movie Studio with their camcorders.. ( Never going to happen!):devil:
 

thejollyboys

Active Member
Ok maybe the writting is on the wall, or I've cocked up in the creation of the movie.

I filmed some footage in our back garden this morning. This video it captured was quite impressive and has great colour and brightness.

I transfered these to my pc and imported them in power director.

I then produced a simple movie and asked it to be output in HD 1080i mpeg 2.

It did render this in about 10 minutes for 5 minutes vid.

I then went to try and play the vid...oh dear, it stutters and stops and starts on the PC. Is there something I'm doing wrong?

My PC is an Athlon AMD sepron 3300 2gig 512meg of ram.

It was never this hard to produce a vid with my trusty old Panasonic NV-DS77.
 

senu

Distinguished Member
AVCHD is hard on PCs ..
Do the Non edited files play fine?
If so, even m2t files from an HDV camcorder will struggle on your PC
Will VLC play your mpeg2 1080i files
 

thejollyboys

Active Member
The mpeg converted unedited files will not play without jerking through.

Sorry for my ignorance what is VLC?

Also tried vegas but that will not import the files from the cam says unrecognised file.
 

senu

Distinguished Member
Vegas 8 or its Movie Studio version should.
VLC doesnt like AVCHD but doesnt mind mpeg2
The jerking is due to the PC struggling:eek:
 

thejollyboys

Active Member
Senu,

Thanks for your continued help.

Sony Vegas 8.0 Movie Studio will not import the files from the cam even if I rename them to m2ts extension.

It's a shame that I cannot edit the video, maybe I should stick to standard def cam as it seems I will not be able to work with High def.

If I stick with standard def which cam should I go for about the same price?
 

senu

Distinguished Member
You need Sony Vegas Movie Studio Platinum ver 8 or trial the full version.
However if your PC is struggling you may need to consider upgrading or giving up on avchd but I wouldnt say go back to SD
HDV can be used as SD until your hardware catches up
 

thejollyboys

Active Member
Guy's,

My wife said the same thing don't go back to Standard def.

I was just looking at PC upgrade to AMD64 5000 and motherboard £119 from Maplin.

Then some mem 1 gig for £60. Would this be enough?

She has conviced me to upgrade pc.

Also found some info on vegas and the files from the cam. If i use the corel app which came wih the cam it transfers them and renames them so you can use them in Vegas.

I'll try the above and let you know.

Thanks again for contiuned patience and help.
 

DrMekon

Active Member
I would avoid maplin.. way too expensive... theyve gone awful since they hit the high streets...

Try www.novatech.co.uk they do upgrade bundles..

http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/bundles.html

ANywhere but maplin..!!!

Then some mem 1 gig for £60. Would this be enough

2gb would be better..but not at them prices... what type is it DDR2 I assume, what speeds???

These are great value at the moment...

Shop about.. I personeally never use local stores for anything these days.... youre almost paying a premium to walk around the store and to get same day....

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/productlist.php?groupid=701&catid=8&subid=813

Judt to prove a point about price..

Corsair 4GB DDR2 XMS2 PC2-6400C5 TwinX (2x2GB) £72

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MY-136-CS&groupid=701&catid=8&subcat=813

The choice is yours at the end of the day.. but at least give yourself the choice..!!
 

alpine101

Active Member
I was just looking at PC upgrade to AMD64 5000 and motherboard £119 from Maplin.

AMDs aren't flavour of the month any more. The Intel quad core 6400 is the best bangs per buck at present. Make sure you get the G0 stepping processor which runs cooler than the older versions. This of course may change in a few months time but both AMD and Intel are reputed to have some yield problems with their next generation cpus and are delaying them.
 

senu

Distinguished Member
I would avoid maplin.. way too expensive... theyve gone awful since they hit the high streets...
Try www.novatech.co.uk they do upgrade bundles..

http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/bundles.html

The choice is yours at the end of the day.. but at least give yourself the choice..!!
Thanks this certainly beats handpicking all over the place
However presumably the MBs may have built in sound but you will still need to source a Graphics card..

:offtopic:While trying not to go too far into HTPC territory I notice from the Power DVD ultra that even if you get a Drive to play BD ect, the graphics card may not pass the compatibiity test:rolleyes:
 

thejollyboys

Active Member
Guy's,

Back to the cam. It is a great day (sunny for a moment then over cast and dull) today so decided to go out and try and do some filming.

The pics the cam produces were stunning. I filmed some quick moving objects (my dogs) and the sea washing up on the shore. But not a hint of the issues suggest with other cams, or the breaking up of the image on panning and fast moving objects.

I filmed some plants in the back garden which came out really crisp with superb reproduction of the colours on the holy tree we have.

Played the images through the supplied composite cable. I take it if I buy a HDMI cable the images would be better on the bravia?

All in all the cam is superb at capturing images and sound is great under any daylight conditions, dull or bright. And after some more research which involved comparing the night time shooting to other models in the same price range and similar specs, it performs better than most and is at the top half of the cams I looked at.

The only issue I have is editing which I’m addressing at the moment looking for a cheap pc that is capable of the job.

Thanks everyone for your help, I'm now going to keep the cam, as there is no other cam (I’ve not found one) that is streets ahead of the HG10 in the price bracket of £550.

Andy.
 

senu

Distinguished Member
Guy's,

Back to the cam. It is a great day (sunny for a moment then over cast and dull) today so decided to go out and try and do some filming.

The pics the cam produces were stunning. I filmed some quick moving objects (my dogs) and the sea washing up on the shore. But not a hint of the issues suggest with other cams, or the breaking up of the image on panning and fast moving objects.

I filmed some plants in the back garden which came out really crisp with superb reproduction of the colours on the holy tree we have.
It is impressive and well built . I similarly played back some daylight test footage through HDMI to a 46" 1080p Samsung yesterday and share your sentiments regarding quality and better implementation of fast moving and panning footage

Played the images through the supplied composite cable. I take it if I buy a HDMI cable the images would be better on the bravia?
Way better by far, youve been watching it as SD AFAIK composite doesnt carry HiDef .Component is quite impressive too

All in all the cam is superb at capturing images and sound is great under any daylight conditions, dull or bright. And after some more research which involved comparing the night time shooting to other models in the same price range and similar specs, it performs better than most and is at the top half of the cams I looked at.
I would agree but only insofar as you havent really compared it to the Sony HC3,5, and 7 and its own stable mate the HV20 ( which I have done a cursory comparison with) but you did say similar specs and price range
Thanks everyone for your help, I'm now going to keep the cam, as there is no other cam (I've not found one) that is streets ahead of the HG10 in the price bracket of £550.
The HG 10 is the best of the Pack for AVCHD ATM . I wouldnt pitch it directly against the HDV models costing similar though ,They would be either at par, or better.
Streets ahead..?? Maybe not but it isnt as good as the HV20 for PQ although It is as good for build an egornormics and better in some cases for layout ,
Similarly with the HV20 though there us nothing less than £1700 that is better although I consider th HC7 to be fairly similar. Sony didnt do themselves any favours by removing some of the more useful features the HV20 has. The HC7 isnt actually cheaper as a result
I hope to do an HG 10 user review thread shortly and hope you can post in it
ATM I have one little bone to pick with Canon:It has No SD ability :nono: and in common with all current AVCHD camcorders it cannot output downconverted SD in hardware on the fly like HDV models. Given that DVDs are the format a lot of the video will end up in I think it is a big oversight
It is the case that even those without "AVCHD friendly" hardware would be happy to buy it now and move to using AVCHD later instead of not being able to do much right now
And there is the little matter of playback and editing on PC but nothing , I guess a little Hardware upgrade of your PC and software purchase wont address
 

thejollyboys

Active Member
I would agree but only insofar as you havent really compared it to the Sony HC3,5, and 7 and its own stable mate the HV20 ( which I have done a cursory comparison with) but you did say similar specs and price range

I agree Senu, sorry should have put HDD in the statement.

I would willingly post in a user review just let me know when and where. If I don't spot it.

I'm really pleased with the cam but not sure I know enough about the other settings to start going manual on it. Maybe a weekend playing with the settings and seeing what comes out the other end would help. But I'm not a great photographer any ways.
 

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