Have an issue with my MA RX6 / Should I upgrade or ?

atoprak

Standard Member
Dear All,

I am having an issue with my setup and not sure what to do ...
I am not sure even if I have an issue or not either...

I am running my Monitor audio Rx6 with Creek evolution 50A integrated amp and using BlueSound Node as a streaming device. I also have a Marantz Cd67mk2 cd player as a source component as well. If it matter, all cables are solid enough :)

The problem I am having is the low frequency output of my speakers. They do provide a decent amount of base but in order to get these, I need to stand up at my listening position... the base is always there when I stand up and even walk at in my listening room but got lost when I sit my listening position. The speakers are well aligned, pulled away from the wall at back about 50cm ...the side wall are not not closer than 1m and they are well toed in to my listening position (sorry for poor lighting conditions, and mess around... the last picture is my "ideal" listening position) ... I am not sure .. I think these speakers are fine as well regarded in almost all reviews... no ones says that they are light on base either ... and so, I am not sure if and upgrade to something better would resolve my base output problem...probably not.... but I may have some other gains If I upgrade to something like Sonus Faber Luminas, Focal Aria 926 .. or bit out of budget but Dynadio Evoke 30 (even Evoke 20 sounded very nice in the shop) .. or even bookshelf versions of these and a small sub...

I bought Rx6s five years ago.... actually, I can’t say that I am not happy but sometimes you are looking for some change :) I am just wondering If I change my speakers with something new and different sound profile to satisfy my "change" desires... or should I add a small subwoofer to fill the room with more base notes and keep using Rx6s ...

Yes... It is bit complicated .. what would you do ?
 

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Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Ok so there is some bass if stand up, meaning at least the metal rings connecting HF/LF are tightened on each speakers and you have connected wires correct on speaker/amp side.
So the bass is stronger if you move behind couch? Can you move the couch at all if you sit in null? How much space you have behind the couch? If you aren`t sitting in null you could push the speakers closer to front walls to get a help from boundary, but would it then affect negatively other areas. It´s easy to try.
 

atoprak

Standard Member
Ok so there is some bass if stand up, meaning at least the metal rings connecting HF/LF are tightened on each speakers and you have connected wires correct on speaker/amp side.
So the bass is stronger if you move behind couch? Can you move the couch at all if you sit in null? How much space you have behind the couch? If you aren`t sitting in null you could push the speakers closer to front walls to get a help from boundary, but would it then affect negatively other areas. It´s easy to try.

Well, first of all my couch is in the middle of the room … so i have almost same distance with the wall back as with the front. If I listen from behind the couch, i get more or less same sound ..I have moved my speakers, pulled then closer to my couch but it didn’t changed the output.. basically whatever I do, I can’t get the base when sit in front of them.. and when and i get the base when I stand up… in addition to that, i get a similar base output when I sit very close (but not infront) to them as well.. may ben you can understand what I am trying to say with the attached picture… if i listen from here, I get decent amount of base, but not when i sit infront … but of course i loose all stage and stereo image if I sit next to speaker like that..
 

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Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Well, first of all my couch is in the middle of the room … so i have almost same distance with the wall back as with the front. If I listen from behind the couch, i get more or less same sound ..I have moved my speakers, pulled then closer to my couch but it didn’t changed the output.. basically whatever I do, I can’t get the base when sit in front of them.. and when and i get the base when I stand up… in addition to that, i get a similar base output when I sit very close (but not infront) to them as well.. may ben you can understand what I am trying to say with the attached picture… if i listen from here, I get decent amount of base, but not when i sit infront … but of course i loose all stage and stereo image if I sit next to speaker like that..

If you have nearly square room and sit dead middle of it, that should explain it some degree cause it typically has bass suck out. If you read some hifi articles they always say not to sit dead centre of room. You have listened behind the couch closer to back wall or front wall (like you would be sitting) either in the centre seat or the at the other seats and if it doesn´t make much difference then perhaps you are just expecting too much from the RX6s. Tough to say. Moving the speakers closer to front wall and you sitting closer to rear wall should make the bass stronger. You would need to spread them more apart too if sitting further back, aiming for equilateral triangle (L to R to listener).
 

ShanePJ

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
I'll say that for the RX6 or even todays 200, this is the one area where they do lack for stereo ability (which is why they're great for cinema as the sub takes control of that part) and in fact the newer 300's with the mini mid-range driver transforms how the Silvers sound with music. There are effectively the same size as the RX8's which used to pump to much bass masking some of the mid-range, but as mentioned, the new driver array (to my ears) really is the sweet spot of the Silvers. So if you enjoy the sound, which seems to come across, then you should really try the latest 300's. I'm quite confident that they will have the extra depth you are looking for as the Creek (even though it's the 50a and not the 100a) is quite a musical gem

Now if you want a wild card throwing in, you could look at the Revel Concerta2 F35 which have a massive saving and for the price are a significantly more musical speaker than the Silvers could ever be and they're both same price at the moment
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
I'll say that for the RX6 or even todays 200, this is the one area where they do lack for stereo ability (which is why they're great for cinema as the sub takes control of that part) and in fact the newer 300's with the mini mid-range driver transforms how the Silvers sound with music. There are effectively the same size as the RX8's which used to pump to much bass masking some of the mid-range, but as mentioned, the new driver array (to my ears) really is the sweet spot of the Silvers. So if you enjoy the sound, which seems to come across, then you should really try the latest 300's. I'm quite confident that they will have the extra depth you are looking for as the Creek (even though it's the 50a and not the 100a) is quite a musical gem

Now if you want a wild card throwing in, you could look at the Revel Concerta2 F35 which have a massive saving and for the price are a significantly more musical speaker than the Silvers could ever be and they're both same price at the moment

I just fear the Silver 300s aren´t going to be much of upgrade in terms of bass quantity which is the main issue here, otherwise OP seems happy. If you look the RX6 it has dual 6" drivers similar to Silver 300 and the cabinet size is not that much different and the frequency response is fairly similar too. Silver 200 has smaller cab and 5,25" drivers so it`s not going to be RX6 level in the bass department. There was youtube comparison from dealer with the 5G Silver 6 showing this.

If the speakers satisfy otherwise then adding one or two subwoofers optimally placed could be all what is needed to bring that weight and depth.
 

ShanePJ

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
You might be surprised by them, I've done some demo's on them in the past and the depth was far more apparent than it shows on paper and really shows the smaller floorstands up for their inability
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
You might be surprised by them, I've done some demo's on them in the past and the depth was far more apparent than it shows on paper and really shows the smaller floorstands up for their inability

Fair enough. They are certainly good speakers, but people also have quite different tastes when it comes to bass so it´s hard to imagine is something similar sized/specs enough then or would one have to look something bigger. Silver 500 would be alternative option or decent subwoofer(s). :)

First is to really make sure one the issue isn´t related to position of MLP as this can be real issue, but also easy to test. And moving the speakers closer to walls is easy to try.


From MA Silver RX6 manual:

For use in a 2 channel system, the listening position and the loudspeakers should form an
equilateral triangle. The speakers should be positioned approximately 6 - 10 feet (1.8 - 3m)
apart. They ideally need to be between 8 - 18 inches (20 - 45cm) away from the rear and
3 feet (1m) from the side walls.

Experimentation is strongly advised when initially setting up your speakers, as environments
and personal preference differ with each installation. If there is not enough bass, for
example, then try moving your speakers closer to a wall.
The opposite, if there is too much
bass.
 

atoprak

Standard Member
If you have nearly square room and sit dead middle of it, that should explain it some degree cause it typically has bass suck out. If you read some hifi articles they always say not to sit dead centre of room. You have listened behind the couch closer to back wall or front wall (like you would be sitting) either in the centre seat or the at the other seats and if it doesn´t make much difference then perhaps you are just expecting too much from the RX6s. Tough to say. Moving the speakers closer to front wall and you sitting closer to rear wall should make the bass stronger. You would need to spread them more apart too if sitting further back, aiming for equilateral triangle (L to R to listener).

I will try seating way back, just close to rear wall... but this will just be for an experiment as this our living room and the layout is that... It is almost impossible for me to change the layout just becouse lacking base output from my speakers... in short, wife factor :)

by the way this is more or less what my room looks like from top
.. It is something like an L shape room ... I put our dining table there to give you an idea... so the right hand side is almost open
 

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atoprak

Standard Member
Fair enough. They are certainly good speakers, but people also have quite different tastes when it comes to bass so it´s hard to imagine is something similar sized/specs enough then or would one have to look something bigger. Silver 500 would be alternative option or decent subwoofer(s). :)

First is to really make sure one the issue isn´t related to position of MLP as this can be real issue, but also easy to test. And moving the speakers closer to walls is easy to try.


From MA Silver RX6 manual:

For use in a 2 channel system, the listening position and the loudspeakers should form an
equilateral triangle. The speakers should be positioned approximately 6 - 10 feet (1.8 - 3m)
apart. They ideally need to be between 8 - 18 inches (20 - 45cm) away from the rear and
3 feet (1m) from the side walls.

Experimentation is strongly advised when initially setting up your speakers, as environments
and personal preference differ with each installation. If there is not enough bass, for
example, then try moving your speakers closer to a wall.
The opposite, if there is too much
bass.

Yes I read them and applied as well... the sound signature changes as expected (when you move them closer to wall) but it is still no where close when I stand up..

As for the bass performance... It is may be a stupid comparison and most importantly they were not in my listening room but the Gold 300 has a way better bass definition / quality... I have compared them with Dynadio Evoke (20-30) and also B&W 704 s2 .. and MA Gold 300s are miles better than both .. well.. totally out of my budget though...
 

atoprak

Standard Member
I'll say that for the RX6 or even todays 200, this is the one area where they do lack for stereo ability (which is why they're great for cinema as the sub takes control of that part) and in fact the newer 300's with the mini mid-range driver transforms how the Silvers sound with music. There are effectively the same size as the RX8's which used to pump to much bass masking some of the mid-range, but as mentioned, the new driver array (to my ears) really is the sweet spot of the Silvers. So if you enjoy the sound, which seems to come across, then you should really try the latest 300's. I'm quite confident that they will have the extra depth you are looking for as the Creek (even though it's the 50a and not the 100a) is quite a musical gem

Now if you want a wild card throwing in, you could look at the Revel Concerta2 F35 which have a massive saving and for the price are a significantly more musical speaker than the Silvers could ever be and they're both same price at the moment

I will take this into consideration but I have a feeling that I need a small, sealed subwoofer to boost up my bass performance dramatically ... but (big but ..) I am also looking for a change in as well (just got bored... ) so may be a pair of nice bookshelf plus a sub... or a decent pair of towers makes sense again...

yep... confused :)
 

ShanePJ

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
Well if you run down the route of a woofer, you will be fine. I've been running a woofer stereo floorstand configuration for years and would never go back. Just ensure you get one that has great timing as Creek are in my opinion quite special for rhythmic ability and instrumental positioning and if it's not up to the job, it could slow the soundstage down
 

atoprak

Standard Member
Well if you run down the route of a woofer, you will be fine. I've been running a woofer stereo floorstand configuration for years and would never go back. Just ensure you get one that has great timing as Creek are in my opinion quite special for rhythmic ability and instrumental positioning and if it's not up to the job, it could slow the soundstage down

Yes, thats why I am looking for sealed box ... I found them a bit more musical ... or least better for music than movies... may be I take one subwoofer ... live with that for a while.. and when I want to change, I can then go for either bit more musical bookshelf or towers again.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Yes I read them and applied as well... the sound signature changes as expected (when you move them closer to wall) but it is still no where close when I stand up..

As for the bass performance... It is may be a stupid comparison and most importantly they were not in my listening room but the Gold 300 has a way better bass definition / quality... I have compared them with Dynadio Evoke (20-30) and also B&W 704 s2 .. and MA Gold 300s are miles better than both .. well.. totally out of my budget though...

There is few cheaper Golds available, but you would also need to have the sub budget (~450£ min).




Perhaps just start with subwoofer and see how you get on. :)
 

ShanePJ

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
Yes, thats why I am looking for sealed box ... I found them a bit more musical ... or least better for music than movies... may be I take one subwoofer ... live with that for a while.. and when I want to change, I can then go for either bit more musical bookshelf or towers again.
The easiest way to see if a woofer is the right way to go is try out home trial option. That way, it will answer the question once and for all, just give the staff a call to find out more information :smashin:
 

atoprak

Standard Member
The easiest way to see if a woofer is the right way to go is try out home trial option. That way, it will answer the question once and for all, just give the staff a call to find out more information :smashin:

Well, not sure If you can help me though :) ... I am living in Netherlands :)
but I will do a shortlist of some small, not eye catching (wife factor again) sub and will be asking them for trial .. let see how our local dealers behave :D .... or can buy 2nd hand sub for half the price.. try it .. and keep it ıf I like or sell it without to mush loss... ..

well, lets see :)
 

ShanePJ

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
Well, not sure If you can help me though :) ... I am living in Netherlands :)
but I will do a shortlist of some small, not eye catchin (wife factor again) sub and will be asking them for trial .. let see how our local dealer behave :D .... or can buy 2nd hand sub for half the price.. try it .. and keep it ıf I like or sell it without to mush loss... ..

well, lets see :)
That's a shame you're over the water :( It would've helped you for sure
 

atoprak

Standard Member
There is few cheaper Golds available, but you would also need to have the sub budget (~450£ min).




Perhaps just start with subwoofer and see how you get on. :)
ah... you are lucky... that damm things are costing a fortune in NL... bu I liked the Gold 300s that time... not really impressed with high frequencies (I was expecting magical things but may be not my style) .. liked the tweeters of much more modest Dynadio Evoke series more.. strange.. but me :D
 

atoprak

Standard Member
Quick update…

I did some tests with bass heavy songs and even with tone control on unbearable sound levels(for a short time) …

By using the cat family analogy , If I stand up on my listening position I have a lion … If i change my listening position and move as close as the back wall get lower almost the listening level, I have a tiger … but If i go back and sit my existing listening position (which is in the middle of listening room) I have kitty cat … By saying that If I really crank up the volume, Rx6s have a decent bass excursion and output… so I am more or less convinced that this is all about my listening position…

Question…
Considering that the change of listening position is almost impossible for my living room, if a subwoofer would fix my problem or not… I would be happy if it does as I may consider other type of speakers later in time to change the general sound signature .. What do you think ?
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Yep that´s what i thought. I fear it`s not going to be easy with the sub either if you sit in spot with big suckout. It would require free hands with the sub location and would one sub be enough as it may locate as own source if it needs to be placed in odd spot far away from mains.

Any chance swapping the room order around and perhaps then having the couch more ideal? Just trying to think way how you would sell this for wife. 😄
 

atoprak

Standard Member
Yep that´s what i thought. I fear it`s not going to be easy with the sub either if you sit in spot with big suckout. It would require free hands with the sub location and would one sub be enough as it may locate as own source if it needs to be placed in odd spot far away from mains.

Any chance swapping the room order around and perhaps then having the couch more ideal? Just trying to think way how you would sell this for wife. 😄

Well… no chance to sell this 😅 … at least in rhe mid term… and actually, even if i decide to spend more than my hifi, I don’t know how should I re arrange the living room .. I may end up bu changing the house which is, you know..at least crazy :)

What bothers is not buying a sub but the possibility of not helping much either… I can keep some of my arguments by changing the speakers but adding a sub for no reason (to my wife for sure) and not solving the problem is hard to tell .. even to myself …

May be creating a listening place in attic sounds another option… really frustrating… puff …
 

Conrad

Moderator
Can you provide a plan of the room indicating wall lengths? Can you also add the seating position and sub position, including the distance from the side wall and front wall to each?

That'll help model the room and see if there is a small change you can make that'll make things better.
 

atoprak

Standard Member
Can you provide a plan of the room indicating wall lengths? Can you also add the seating position and sub position, including the distance from the side wall and front wall to each?

That'll help model the room and see if there is a small change you can make that'll make things better.

Hello,

You can find the plot of my living room with almost exact measurements (in ft) attached one of my message above.

There is no sub for now.. thats what I am considering to add.
 

Conrad

Moderator
Ok thanks, sorry, I missed that.

Can you provide distances to the listening position from at a side wall and either the front and back wall?

Also speaker locations including distances from the back and side walls?
 

tony cosgrove

Well-known Member
OP I have a SVS Micro 3000 sub and a pair of Totem minis which are, er, mini and I mean mini but when I listen to music you would swear blind you are listening to huge floor standers bass is amazing only problem is the sub is nearly a grand (£900) but worth every penny.

As the guy above said I'd never go back to not having a sub the thing with a sub is it allows the speakers to really shine in the higher frequencies.

I struggled with a pair of Elac BS 312 bookshelves for about two years and frankly they sounded pants but when I added the sub they were like different speakers the mid range and treble were unbelievable like completely different speakers.

The Totem minis are incredible BTW especially for music.
 

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