1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

has usa etc set up terrorism?

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by oxygenuk, Oct 22, 2005.

  1. oxygenuk

    oxygenuk
    Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2004
    Messages:
    1,644
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Ratings:
    +13
    got the following from another forum but rewrote some of it see below

    edit: please consider watching all the video first before replying, thnx
     
  2. The Dude

    The Dude
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2004
    Messages:
    4,922
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Beverley, East Yorkshire
    Ratings:
    +1,241
    :rolleyes:
     
  3. KoThreads

    KoThreads
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2005
    Messages:
    2,961
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Ratings:
    +157
    It wouldn't surprise me one bit.
     
  4. Garrett

    Garrett
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2001
    Messages:
    32,273
    Products Owned:
    2
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    167
    Location:
    The best thief you’ll never see.
    Ratings:
    +4,204
    I think there was a TV program where they debunced some of the clames of the vidio also look here.

    I do remeber on docomentry where Oklahoma Bombing was said to be a conspiracy to get more funding for the ATF as it was said most of there staf were out of the federal building but there is a debun site here.
     
  5. Nick_UK

    Nick_UK
    Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2004
    Messages:
    9,748
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Ratings:
    +270
    Terrorism is a "win-win" situation, and a gift for governments.

    The government warns of terrorism, and if it happens, they say "see, we told you that we need more laws to stop it", and if it doesn't happen, they say "see what a good job we're doing".

    Bush's highest point was when he was standing in the ruins of 9/11, vowing to avenge the attrocities. Despite forever harping back to it, his popularity has waned ever since. Maybe people are wising up ?
     
  6. krish

    krish
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2005
    Messages:
    28,940
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    nr. Pinner
    Ratings:
    +9,400
    I do not subscribe to the conspiracy theories discused here, but I would draw your attention to the brilliant BBC documentary by Adam Curtis, The Power of Nightmares: The Rise of the Politics of Fear (more info at www.bbc.co.uk/nightmares & www.imdb.com/title/tt0430484), that intelligently explores how the idea that we are threatened by a hidden and organised radical Islamist terrorist network is deliberately exaggerated by the American neo-conservatives.
     
  7. overkill

    overkill
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2003
    Messages:
    11,778
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Murkeyside
    Ratings:
    +1,194
    Agree with Krish. The original idea that the US cynicaly sets out to create terrorism is too 'x-files' for me. However, as historians have argued, and the BBC took up in the excellent programme mentioned above, the US needs external enemies to hold its fragile union together. Hence the fall of the Berlin wall, and the final collapse of the USSR after twenty years of internal problems, presented them with a dilema. Answer? Overegg terrorism, and get the hawks to provoke the militants as much as possible. Result, an increase in terrorism since the mid 90's culminating in 9/11. Then we have, after a few years of rising internal dissent, a united country, and fully blown patriotic fervour in the post 9/11 USA. Simple really.
     
  8. KoThreads

    KoThreads
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2005
    Messages:
    2,961
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Ratings:
    +157
    And it's the perfect excuse for governments to scare the people and say we need more taxes-money to fund the fight against it. BASTARDS
     
  9. Reiner

    Reiner
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2000
    Messages:
    3,315
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    61
    Location:
    Germany
    Ratings:
    +13
    I do not subscribe to those conspiracy policies, in particular not those that claim the US government has orchestrated the 911 attacks.
    However I would agree that there are a lot of unanswered questions surrounding the attacks. Maybe things are hidden / kept secret from the public or maybe things can't currently be explained (I suspect the former). As well US intelligence has failed badly, on preventing the attacks and of course the WMD issue.
    But Bush & Co. being directly responsible? Nope, I don't think so.
     
  10. Nick_UK

    Nick_UK
    Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2004
    Messages:
    9,748
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Ratings:
    +270
    Too many things surrounding the 9/11 attacks just don't add up. I'm not going into them here, because (a) I don't have the time and (b) there's plenty of web sites dealing with it.

    One of the best "conspiracy" sites I've seen is An Interesting Day : President Bush's Movements and Actions on 9/11 which shows lots of innacuracies surrounding George Bush's movements, actions and reactions in the days leading up to and following the 9/11 attacks.
     
  11. krish

    krish
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2005
    Messages:
    28,940
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    nr. Pinner
    Ratings:
    +9,400
    The US intelligence and security agencies (well virtually all US federal agencies :rolleyes: ) are INCOMPETENT - this has been proven time after time.. too lazy to follow serious pre-9/11 leads because they can't be bothered to carefully translate arabic.. detaining someone as a terrorist because they have the same name as someone they believe to not be a nice person, etc. The Neo-cons revel in this and take political advantage in order to pursue whatever they wish, be it the invasion of Iraq, the Patriot Act. Most acts of incompetence are buried/"classified" under the false umbrella of national security until a congressional or senate hearing forces their disclosure.

    The neocons aren't particularly clever and most of the outside world can see what they're up to; they just enjoy the protection of an ever more conservative broadcast media (especially Fox!!).

    Remember these same corrupt ar$ehole neocons spent countless tax dollars pursuing Clinton for something he was innocent of (he invested in a property business which he and his wife lost money on; that involved some dubious dealings by the person running the enterprise) and because all allegations were baseless they illegitimately pursued him over the private matter of a stain on a dress. Its just a pity that the Democrats have not pursued them and Bush with the same vigour over the more serious crimes of electoral fraud (2000 and 2004); an illegal war, corruption (HALIBURTON; THE CARLYLE GROUP; donations from the petrochemcals, defence and heavy engineering industries in order to destroy protected areas and secure major infrastructure/defence contracts internally and in occupied countries etc...)
     
  12. mrtbag

    mrtbag
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2002
    Messages:
    3,509
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Anywhere I want
    Ratings:
    +395
    I think people who post conspiracy site URLs, are involved in a conspiracy against the governments of the world. :D
     
  13. shadowritten

    shadowritten
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    As ever, we'll only discover the truth (in part, at least) about such world events long, long after they took place ... and when no one can be held responsible. That such events are 'orchestrated' in some way is beyond question. If you think world politics is in any way without corruption, you're holding on to a romantic, naive view. It's this corrupt element that's usually to be found lurking somewhere behind the scenes of such major global tragedies ...
     
  14. Ed Selley

    Ed Selley
    AVF Reviewer

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    10,848
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +3,221
    One minute Bush and his government are being descibed as thick, bigoted pro-lifers, the next they're masterminding some enormous right wing conspiracy.

    I do wish people would make up their minds about this.
     
  15. Steven

    Steven
    Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2005
    Messages:
    36,436
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +6,222
    I remember reading there's a difference between America and americans ;)
     
  16. shadowritten

    shadowritten
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Ignorance can be a very dangerous thing ...
     
  17. Ed Selley

    Ed Selley
    AVF Reviewer

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    10,848
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +3,221
    Whose ignorance though?
     
  18. shadowritten

    shadowritten
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Nice retort :D

    Anyone's ignorance. As is often said in metaphysical circles, the only human sin is ignorance.
     
  19. The Dude

    The Dude
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2004
    Messages:
    4,922
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Beverley, East Yorkshire
    Ratings:
    +1,241
    here's a conspiracy theory for you... Conspiracy theory websites are actually setup by Governments as part of a global mis-information conspiracy, in order to make a complete mockery of any potentially damaging information which may make it into the public domain.

    they post the top secret info on a conspiracy theory website, and we all sit back and laugh at how naive you must be to actually believe any of that rubbish.

    This is how they keep getting away with it. :lesson:

    (it's true, I read it on www.conspiracytheorywebsiteconspiracy.com )
     
  20. Ethics Gradient

    Ethics Gradient
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2003
    Messages:
    3,680
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    aka Billy Science - Suni ojna Tas
    Ratings:
    +432
    then we are all sinners

    each and everyone of us is ignorant - unless someone claims to know everything .... and even I don't claim to know that muc ;)

    I disagree with the idea that ignorance alone is bad ignorance of your own mortality for example could be rather a good thing..... it is ignorance in relation to specifics that is bad.

    ie - being ignorant of how to run a countries social and ecconomic policies ... or even the english language when you happen to be president. :eek:

    People profering advice or opinions on subjects they are ignorant in drive me mad......
    its the sort of thing you hear in a pub when someone is discussing how one ethinic group have 'taken all the jobs' etc.
     
  21. shadowritten

    shadowritten
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Y'know, EG, me and you haven't always seen eye to eye on here, but on this one, I agree. Looked at from a certain angle, I'd say you're right. From another angle, I might well take a different view.

    But hey, the point is: Do governments actually orchestrate this stuff? I'm not sure they do, but I feel they're certainly involved in provoking the causes of it.
     
  22. The Dude

    The Dude
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2004
    Messages:
    4,922
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Beverley, East Yorkshire
    Ratings:
    +1,241
  23. overkill

    overkill
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2003
    Messages:
    11,778
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Murkeyside
    Ratings:
    +1,194
    Too right. What makes me laugh most of all is this what you hear 99% of the time in pubs in deepest, darkest country areas where they have never, and most likely never will, see a single immigrant! :D

    Ignorance is bliss they say................... but if you're the pres it's bloody dangerous! :eek:
     
  24. pragmatic

    pragmatic
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2004
    Messages:
    12,120
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +1,678
    So is that a square or a triangle to mathematicians :D
     
  25. Nick_UK

    Nick_UK
    Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2004
    Messages:
    9,748
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Ratings:
    +270
    It's also very easy to claim - especially if you are George Bush. Bush is an ignorant t***pot, but he surrounds himself with clever people.
     
  26. Steven

    Steven
    Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2005
    Messages:
    36,436
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +6,222
    Yeah...clever people who thought Iraqis would line the street waving US flags....

    Look Bush is oviously ignorant and crazy. God told him to start a war? Hearing voices is the 1st sign of madness. Thinking you're God is the 2nd
     
  27. overkill

    overkill
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2003
    Messages:
    11,778
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Murkeyside
    Ratings:
    +1,194
    Alas, they too are totally off their trolleys. Anyone who tells me those two fanatic's, Rumsfeld, and Cheney are 'normal' needs a visit to the laughing academy themsleves! ;)
     
  28. derelictdustin

    derelictdustin
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    thats great. i agree, bush is nuts and is doing much damage to america that he won't be around to have to clean up.

    i live in america and i watched the logic of this country be totally lost to irrational fear since 9/11.

    and do i think that the gov't has something to do with using terrorism as a form of control and mobilization? completely.
     
  29. Nick_UK

    Nick_UK
    Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2004
    Messages:
    9,748
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Ratings:
    +270
    Well, it seems ours are just as bad.....

    "London bomber Mohammed Sidique Khan featured in a surveillance operation by intelligence services last year, a BBC investigation suggests.
    Khan was secretly filmed and recorded speaking to a UK-based terror suspect, according to a well-placed source.

    A Radio 4 File on 4 and BBC Two Newsnight investigation also suggests he was in contact with al-Qaeda activists for the last five years."


    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4375598.stm
     
  30. mrtbag

    mrtbag
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2002
    Messages:
    3,509
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Anywhere I want
    Ratings:
    +395
    Im not saying it's wrong but there are a few key words to be pointed out here.

    and

    Now I know the government and intelligence service aren't squeeky clean. However, I'll take their word over a terror suspects anyday. If actual proof arrives, I'll be more than happy to re-consider.
     

Share This Page

Loading...