Has the 360's graphical power peaked?

Discussion in 'Xbox Forums' started by Guns_LotsOfGuns, Apr 22, 2007.

  1. Guns_LotsOfGuns

    Guns_LotsOfGuns
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    Everyone would pretty much agree that Gears of War are the best graphics on the 360 right?

    Well given that it was made on the new all singing and dancing Unreal 3 engine, and the game was made by the makers of said engine and the makers of the console running it, is Gears the pinnacle of Grapical goodness we can expect from the 360?

    Most games being developed for next gen seem to be using the Unreal 3 engine, but it stands to reason that Epic and Microsoft would be more likely to get the most/best performance out of it.

    I check out alot of previews for upcoming games, and ive not seen one so far that beats Gears for graphics (can anyone show me one?), not that this is a bad thing as Gears look super amazing so its by no means a low bar.

    My point is if all games are equal to or lesser than Gears has the 360 shown its hand too early, later in the life cycle will we be looking at games and wondering why they dont look so much better than Gears which came out early in the life cycle.

    Or will we be happy still having Gears looking games towards the end of the 360 life cycle?

    Discuss. :)
     
  2. CeeJay775

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    Nope, during its life they will learn new ways to gain more power from it. Look at the PS2 from the 1st games untill some of todays, god of war 2 for one, no one would of thought it possible when the PS2 first came out but with time comes new tecniques for games developers to use. Theres life in the 360 yet and we still have yet to see what it really is capable of, I think that a game will come along for the 360 that blows even GOW out of the water, maybe I am hoping but I think so one day.:)
     
  3. NewBeetle

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    I think they will continue to improve although maybe not in as big steps as previously.

    Programmers learn new skills using existing technology throughout its life and the 360 will be no different.
     
  4. Dave

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    IMHO absolutely not.

    It's only been out for 18 months and it takes devs years to find new ways increasing performance.

    Take Halo CE for example, at the time it was released it was a stunning example of what xbox was capable of, 2 years down the line we had Halo 2 which I think we can all agree was graphically far superior to Halo CE.

    Maybe at some point in the future it may hit a ceiling but that's unlikely to happen for 2 or 3 years yet.
     
  5. NewBeetle

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    By the time they reach the 'ceiling' or close to it, the next generation consoles will be well and truly on the way.
     
  6. Guns_LotsOfGuns

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    Im just wondering what the game will be like! will it make your brain explode:eek: , how much longer is it before we get to the point regardless of power that graphics level out, will it be photo realistic?

    I dont think we will see anything near the jump from early XBOX to late XBOX (or PS2 early titles to GOW2)

    PS anyone got evidence of an upcoming games that look better than Gears or is proof of this development?
     
  7. Dave

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    Why not?

    Not trying to be an argumentative SOB just wondering what makes you think that.

    I can't see any reason why we wouldn't see vast improvements over the lifetime of the console at least equal to what we saw on xbox/ps2.
     
  8. Guns_LotsOfGuns

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    LOL no worries, i love a good discussion.

    I think weve got to the point where graphics (on all systems not just 360) can only improve in relatively (compared to previous jumps) small steps.

    I was playing Gears last night and thinking how could this look better?!, and i had a hard time saying how it could be improve apart from photo realism.

    In previous generations there have always been obvious ways to improve graphics but at this point it feels like were really close to a ceiling.

    I think everyones used to these graphical leaps, but it has to end somewhere.
     
  9. CeeJay775

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    The thread topic question wasn't can anyone show me proof theres a better looking game out there than GOW(coming or present), it was has the 360 reached its graphical power?. Gears is less than 6 months old and I do believe there will be a better looking game one day, and I stick with my first answer. No I dont think that the 360 has reached its graphical power and I have great confidence that the games will go from strenth to strenth as the 360 goes through its life cycle.:)

    Edit: well I hope I am right or it will be way to early in the 360's life cycle for it to have peaked.
     
  10. Guns_LotsOfGuns

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    Dont get the wrong idea here im not trying to rag on the 360, was just kinda thinking out loud really, if Gears is pretty unimprovable (is that a word!?) then it would seem there isnt much more the 360 can do regardless of power i guess, maybe i titled the thread wrong, the power wasnt in question, the potential application of said power was.
     
  11. Dave

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    I'm gonna be all controvertial now, I totally disagree.:D

    I can remember playing on a snes and being gobsmacked by the graphics. Coming from a nes and before that an atari 2600 and a spectrum I thought exactly the same thing you did. How could the graphics possibly get better.

    Look at what we have now, incredible graphics even compared to xbox and ps2. I know what you mean about thinking how can they get better but they do. I forget the name of the law that predicted the increases in processing power but even now it still holds true.

    I think we'll all be surprised at the step up in performance as the consoles get older. It's happened with every single games console ever released so I see no reason why it won't happen with the current crop.

    Another thing to bear in mind is firmware updates. All 3 next gen consoles are updateable, sure the hardware can't be changed but it's efficiency can. If anything the improvements in the current crop of consoles is potentially gonna be better than any we've seen before.

    All IMHO of course.;)
     
  12. CeeJay775

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    I know that mate, I was just answering the question put to us. If I look at it they way your are looking at it, I would still say there is room for improvements, I suppose I agree here that Gears seems ahead of its time and it could be the only real improvemets we see is in the Anti analizing and anastropic filtering side of things. You know like PGR with no jaggies, MOTOGP and saints with no screen tearing that type of thing. But lets just say Gears of war 2 will look better than 1 you would think so maybe theres the answer in itself:thumbsup:
     
  13. chaddy

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    Keep a look out for, Alan Wake, Mass Effect, Stranglehold, Assasins Creed.
    All of them look like Next Gen and on par with GOW.
     
  14. rowedav

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    @ Daerve - I think you mean Moore's Law (scratches head, thinkning back to uni days)

    Anyway, I've read somewhere that the 360 doesn't have much left power to unlock and that Gears of War is pushing close to full power.

    I think the same article also mentioned that as the ps3 is difficult to program for (from what developers say) it'll take longer for them to work out how to utilize it's full power, so it could take longer to 'peak'

    Personally, I'm not too bothered, the 360 seems to have plenty of power.
     
  15. Guns_LotsOfGuns

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    Maybe thats the problem Gears itself is a special case and ahead of its time.

    Exactly "on par" given how late they are arriving, lets say 3rd generation by the time they get here, i would expect them to have surpassed it, is this evidence of the smaller evolutional steps i believe we will begin to see? I think it is.
     
  16. Dave

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    That's the one, cheers.:beer:
     
  17. Pooon

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    I think we may be approaching what is possible graphically in terms of what our eyes can actually notice. I think that games will continue to look a tiny bit more detailed and therefore prettier but where i think the biggest gains in terms of moving games forward will be, will be in physics. Its all well and good having a fantastic looking world with great characters or whatever but if the way in which said character interacts or whatever in that world doesnt 'feel right' then just making it look good doesn't make it a good game. So i expect the physics engine's in almost every genre of game to show the most progress during this generation of hardware
     
  18. Pebb

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    UT03 and Alan Wake will crush Gears of War I reckon.
     
  19. Monkeyspoon

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    Well as far as i see both the PS3 and X360 are still taking their baby steps. You have to learn to walk before you can run.
     
  20. Guns_LotsOfGuns

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    I agree.
     
  21. jammieeeee

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    5 years ago we would have looked at games and wondered how they could get any better (graphically), and i am sure that this ill always be the case. You cannot imagine what new games will look like until we see them, photo realism will surely be a long way off, i personally think for a game to seem photo realistic, the engines powereing the movement of characters will also have to support the graphics.
     
  22. rev happy

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    I think the graphics on Gears of War will be pretty hard to top in the short term, but there's little doubt in my mind that someone will raise the bar again.

    On the 1Up Yours Podcast they briefly discussed how its unlikely Halo 3 will have better graphics than Gears, simply because Halo 3 is apparently going to have big vast battles where as in Gears, the action tends to be in tighter city environments.

    Personally, I hope developers allocate more of the 360's power towards better computer AI rather than just better graphics. The Gran Turismo series is for me probably the best example of a game where the graphics quality verses AI quality is horribly out of balance. Forza's AI seemed far superior to me and that's why I'm personally not that worried about some of the early screen shots of Forza 2.

    I do hope however, that screen screen tearing in 360 games soon becomes a thing of the past.
     
  23. Guns_LotsOfGuns

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    Surely its impossible for it to always be the case that graphics get better, when we get to photo realism isnt that the end of the line?

    And is the gap between photo realism and what we have now really that big?
     
  24. Rizob

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    Considering Gears Of War spent most of it's development on old dev kits and tools, only exploiting one of the 3 CPU cores until the late stages of development, i think we can expect Gears Of War 2 and other games over the next few years to look far better. The tools for UE3 had a major upgrade towards the end of GOW development too, so the engine will run much more efficiently in the future.

    To be honest though i've had far more many 'wow' moments with games like Dead Rising, Splinter Cell, Table Tennis, R6:Vegas and PGR3 than i've had with GOW. It's still a great looking game though! :smashin:
     
  25. Guns_LotsOfGuns

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    Do you have a link for any of this info mate? i would be really interested to read that. Thanks.
     
  26. ohh_danielson

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    Games i think will beat GEARS, well personally for starters i think COD3 comes even or very close but upcoming games id say Alan Wake i think it is. BioShock, them graphics looks amazing, Mass Effect. I did have few in mind but off top of my head there are ones that stick out.

    Also i think you have to remember that GoW is a third person shooter, so you are looking at things further away. where as in a FPS every wall you can look directly at close range if your with me. i loved the GoW graphics they were superb but on occasions in doors i would looks closely on walls and some of textures were a lil bit blurry or not superbly detailed. Fair do's the close of of faces on GoW were superb you cant deny that.
    But i think FPS graphics will beat GoW, such as Bio Shock and probs Half life 2 episode 2.
     
  27. Jackkk

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    Theres plenty of life left in the 360 yet i remember thinking something similar when mgs2 came out on ps2:eek: and besides graphics arent just about how good one character looks theres different ways of lighting/shading an environment or character, if npcs and objects can be much further improved. The point im trying to make is its not the graphics that will drasticly improve its the way they are displayed and how good some of the smaller deatails look.
     
  28. SquintingBadger

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    I can't understand why GOW is held up as the pinnacle of graphics evolution, something which can hardly be topped. I thought it was quite a sterile looking game, copious amounts of texture mapping but no real detail. Must admit I didn't play it very far though, It's probably in the top list of the current titles graphically, but there is so much more yet to be improved in all of them.

    Where is all the little detail, the dust swirling around, footprints, rubble being ground underfoot, water and mud splashing on the environments and players, environments (and objects) that deform correctly according to damage, rolling smoke, accurate reflections and shadows. The list of things you could add is endless.
     
  29. CeeJay775

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    I think I get what Guns is saying, the games maybe can't get to look anthing more than photo realistic, that time may not be far away. However the games will still get bigger and better, better A.I and NPC intergration, improved pysics engine's ect ect. The future is bright for us gamers and I would be happy to see Gears graphics in bigger and better games, as long as the games keep a big:D on our faces we will allways be the winners, wether that be on the 360, PS3 or a £3000 PC:eek: Also we get 24 players online at a push now, the shooter on the PS3 has 40 players, do we think we could get to the 64 player mark on consoles, if we do with the other things I have mentioned then thats improvement.:thumbsup:
     
  30. Droogie 2001

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    I have been sitting here trying to think of a worthy response as there are some really good points being discussed here.
    I think the answer to the original question is absolutely yes, there will games that surpass GOW. As someone else mentioned Halo 1 was excellent but Halo 2 exceeded it on all counts (ignoring the unresolved storyline issue :D )
    Apparently some in Bungie were not even happy with how Halo 2 turned out as they ran out of time.
    I think also lighting and physics are the way to go too.
    Take the new rally game Dirt. The lighting looks very nice on that as well as the real time enviroment effects.
     

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