Has the 360's graphical power peaked?

Guns_LotsOfGuns

Moderator/Games Reviewer
Everyone would pretty much agree that Gears of War are the best graphics on the 360 right?

Well given that it was made on the new all singing and dancing Unreal 3 engine, and the game was made by the makers of said engine and the makers of the console running it, is Gears the pinnacle of Grapical goodness we can expect from the 360?

Most games being developed for next gen seem to be using the Unreal 3 engine, but it stands to reason that Epic and Microsoft would be more likely to get the most/best performance out of it.

I check out alot of previews for upcoming games, and ive not seen one so far that beats Gears for graphics (can anyone show me one?), not that this is a bad thing as Gears look super amazing so its by no means a low bar.

My point is if all games are equal to or lesser than Gears has the 360 shown its hand too early, later in the life cycle will we be looking at games and wondering why they dont look so much better than Gears which came out early in the life cycle.

Or will we be happy still having Gears looking games towards the end of the 360 life cycle?

Discuss. :)
 

CeeJay775

Well-known Member
Nope, during its life they will learn new ways to gain more power from it. Look at the PS2 from the 1st games untill some of todays, god of war 2 for one, no one would of thought it possible when the PS2 first came out but with time comes new tecniques for games developers to use. Theres life in the 360 yet and we still have yet to see what it really is capable of, I think that a game will come along for the 360 that blows even GOW out of the water, maybe I am hoping but I think so one day.:)
 

NewBeetle

Distinguished Member
I think they will continue to improve although maybe not in as big steps as previously.

Programmers learn new skills using existing technology throughout its life and the 360 will be no different.
 

Dave

Distinguished Member
IMHO absolutely not.

It's only been out for 18 months and it takes devs years to find new ways increasing performance.

Take Halo CE for example, at the time it was released it was a stunning example of what xbox was capable of, 2 years down the line we had Halo 2 which I think we can all agree was graphically far superior to Halo CE.

Maybe at some point in the future it may hit a ceiling but that's unlikely to happen for 2 or 3 years yet.
 

NewBeetle

Distinguished Member
By the time they reach the 'ceiling' or close to it, the next generation consoles will be well and truly on the way.
 

Guns_LotsOfGuns

Moderator/Games Reviewer
Nope, during its life they will learn new ways to gain more power from it. Look at the PS2 from the 1st games untill some of todays, god of war 2 for one, no one would of thought it possible when the PS2 first came out but with time comes new tecniques for games developers to use. Theres life in the 360 yet and we still have yet to see what it really is capable of, I think that a game will come along for the 360 that blows even GOW out of the water, maybe I am hoping but I think so one day.:)

I think they will continue to improve although maybe not in as big steps as previously.

Programmers learn new skills using existing technology throughout its life and the 360 will be no different.

Im just wondering what the game will be like! will it make your brain explode:eek: , how much longer is it before we get to the point regardless of power that graphics level out, will it be photo realistic?

I dont think we will see anything near the jump from early XBOX to late XBOX (or PS2 early titles to GOW2)

PS anyone got evidence of an upcoming games that look better than Gears or is proof of this development?
 

Dave

Distinguished Member
I dont think we will see anything near the jump from early XBOX to late XBOX (or PS2 early titles to GOW2)

Why not?

Not trying to be an argumentative SOB just wondering what makes you think that.

I can't see any reason why we wouldn't see vast improvements over the lifetime of the console at least equal to what we saw on xbox/ps2.
 

Guns_LotsOfGuns

Moderator/Games Reviewer
Why not?

Not trying to be an argumentative SOB just wondering what makes you think that.

I can't see any reason why we wouldn't see vast improvements over the lifetime of the console at least equal to what we saw on xbox/ps2.

LOL no worries, i love a good discussion.

I think weve got to the point where graphics (on all systems not just 360) can only improve in relatively (compared to previous jumps) small steps.

I was playing Gears last night and thinking how could this look better?!, and i had a hard time saying how it could be improve apart from photo realism.

In previous generations there have always been obvious ways to improve graphics but at this point it feels like were really close to a ceiling.

I think everyones used to these graphical leaps, but it has to end somewhere.
 

CeeJay775

Well-known Member
The thread topic question wasn't can anyone show me proof theres a better looking game out there than GOW(coming or present), it was has the 360 reached its graphical power?. Gears is less than 6 months old and I do believe there will be a better looking game one day, and I stick with my first answer. No I dont think that the 360 has reached its graphical power and I have great confidence that the games will go from strenth to strenth as the 360 goes through its life cycle.:)

Edit: well I hope I am right or it will be way to early in the 360's life cycle for it to have peaked.
 

Guns_LotsOfGuns

Moderator/Games Reviewer
The thread topic question wasn't can anyone show me proof theres a better looking game out there than GOW(coming or present), it was has the 360 reached its graphical power?. Gears is less than 6 months old and I do believe there will be a better looking game one day, and I stick with my first answer. No I dont think that the 360 has reached its graphical power and I have great confidence that the games will go from strenth to strenth as the 360 goes through its life cycle.:)

Edit: well I hope I am right or it will be way to early in the 360's life cycle for it to have peaked.

Dont get the wrong idea here im not trying to rag on the 360, was just kinda thinking out loud really, if Gears is pretty unimprovable (is that a word!?) then it would seem there isnt much more the 360 can do regardless of power i guess, maybe i titled the thread wrong, the power wasnt in question, the potential application of said power was.
 

Dave

Distinguished Member
LOL no worries, i love a good discussion.

I think weve got to the point where graphics (on all systems not just 360) can only improve in relatively (compared to previous jumps) small steps.

I was playing Gears last night and thinking how could this look better?!, and i had a hard time saying how it could be improve apart from photo realism.

In previous generations there have always been obvious ways to improve graphics but at this point it feels like were really close to a ceiling.

I'm gonna be all controvertial now, I totally disagree.:D

I can remember playing on a snes and being gobsmacked by the graphics. Coming from a nes and before that an atari 2600 and a spectrum I thought exactly the same thing you did. How could the graphics possibly get better.

Look at what we have now, incredible graphics even compared to xbox and ps2. I know what you mean about thinking how can they get better but they do. I forget the name of the law that predicted the increases in processing power but even now it still holds true.

I think we'll all be surprised at the step up in performance as the consoles get older. It's happened with every single games console ever released so I see no reason why it won't happen with the current crop.

Another thing to bear in mind is firmware updates. All 3 next gen consoles are updateable, sure the hardware can't be changed but it's efficiency can. If anything the improvements in the current crop of consoles is potentially gonna be better than any we've seen before.

All IMHO of course.;)
 

CeeJay775

Well-known Member
Dont get the wrong idea here im not trying to rag on the 360, was just kinda thinking out loud really, if Gears is pretty unimprovable (is that a word!?) then it would seem there isnt much more the 360 can do regardless of power i guess, maybe i titled the thread wrong, the power wasnt in question, the potential application of said power was.
I know that mate, I was just answering the question put to us. If I look at it they way your are looking at it, I would still say there is room for improvements, I suppose I agree here that Gears seems ahead of its time and it could be the only real improvemets we see is in the Anti analizing and anastropic filtering side of things. You know like PGR with no jaggies, MOTOGP and saints with no screen tearing that type of thing. But lets just say Gears of war 2 will look better than 1 you would think so maybe theres the answer in itself:thumbsup:
 

chaddy

Banned
Dont get the wrong idea here im not trying to rag on the 360, was just kinda thinking out loud really, if Gears is pretty unimprovable (is that a word!?) then it would seem there isnt much more the 360 can do regardless of power i guess, maybe i titled the thread wrong, the power wasnt in question, the potential application of said power was.

Keep a look out for, Alan Wake, Mass Effect, Stranglehold, Assasins Creed.
All of them look like Next Gen and on par with GOW.
 

rowedav

Distinguished Member
@ Daerve - I think you mean Moore's Law (scratches head, thinkning back to uni days)

Anyway, I've read somewhere that the 360 doesn't have much left power to unlock and that Gears of War is pushing close to full power.

I think the same article also mentioned that as the ps3 is difficult to program for (from what developers say) it'll take longer for them to work out how to utilize it's full power, so it could take longer to 'peak'

Personally, I'm not too bothered, the 360 seems to have plenty of power.
 

Guns_LotsOfGuns

Moderator/Games Reviewer
I suppose I agree here that Gears seems ahead of its time

Maybe thats the problem Gears itself is a special case and ahead of its time.

Keep a look out for, Alan Wake, Mass Effect, Stranglehold, Assasins Creed.
All of them look like Next Gen and on par with GOW.

Exactly "on par" given how late they are arriving, lets say 3rd generation by the time they get here, i would expect them to have surpassed it, is this evidence of the smaller evolutional steps i believe we will begin to see? I think it is.
 

Pooon

Distinguished Member
I think we may be approaching what is possible graphically in terms of what our eyes can actually notice. I think that games will continue to look a tiny bit more detailed and therefore prettier but where i think the biggest gains in terms of moving games forward will be, will be in physics. Its all well and good having a fantastic looking world with great characters or whatever but if the way in which said character interacts or whatever in that world doesnt 'feel right' then just making it look good doesn't make it a good game. So i expect the physics engine's in almost every genre of game to show the most progress during this generation of hardware
 
Well as far as i see both the PS3 and X360 are still taking their baby steps. You have to learn to walk before you can run.
 

Guns_LotsOfGuns

Moderator/Games Reviewer
So i expect the physics engine's in almost every genre of game to show the most progress during this generation of hardware

I agree.
 

jammieeeee

Active Member
5 years ago we would have looked at games and wondered how they could get any better (graphically), and i am sure that this ill always be the case. You cannot imagine what new games will look like until we see them, photo realism will surely be a long way off, i personally think for a game to seem photo realistic, the engines powereing the movement of characters will also have to support the graphics.
 

rev happy

Active Member
I think the graphics on Gears of War will be pretty hard to top in the short term, but there's little doubt in my mind that someone will raise the bar again.

On the 1Up Yours Podcast they briefly discussed how its unlikely Halo 3 will have better graphics than Gears, simply because Halo 3 is apparently going to have big vast battles where as in Gears, the action tends to be in tighter city environments.

Personally, I hope developers allocate more of the 360's power towards better computer AI rather than just better graphics. The Gran Turismo series is for me probably the best example of a game where the graphics quality verses AI quality is horribly out of balance. Forza's AI seemed far superior to me and that's why I'm personally not that worried about some of the early screen shots of Forza 2.

I do hope however, that screen screen tearing in 360 games soon becomes a thing of the past.
 

Guns_LotsOfGuns

Moderator/Games Reviewer
5 years ago we would have looked at games and wondered how they could get any better (graphically), and i am sure that this ill always be the case.

Surely its impossible for it to always be the case that graphics get better, when we get to photo realism isnt that the end of the line?

And is the gap between photo realism and what we have now really that big?
 

Rizob

Active Member
Considering Gears Of War spent most of it's development on old dev kits and tools, only exploiting one of the 3 CPU cores until the late stages of development, i think we can expect Gears Of War 2 and other games over the next few years to look far better. The tools for UE3 had a major upgrade towards the end of GOW development too, so the engine will run much more efficiently in the future.

To be honest though i've had far more many 'wow' moments with games like Dead Rising, Splinter Cell, Table Tennis, R6:Vegas and PGR3 than i've had with GOW. It's still a great looking game though! :smashin:
 

Guns_LotsOfGuns

Moderator/Games Reviewer
Considering Gears Of War spent most of it's development on old dev kits and tools, only exploiting one of the 3 CPU cores until the late stages of development, i think we can expect Gears Of War 2 and other games over the next few years to look far better. The tools for UE3 had a major upgrade towards the end of GOW development too, so the engine will run much more efficiently in the future.

Do you have a link for any of this info mate? i would be really interested to read that. Thanks.
 

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