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Has no one got a decent 23"?

Discussion in 'LCD & LED LCD TVs' started by markino, Aug 3, 2005.

  1. markino

    markino
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    Really?

    Mind you it wouldn't surprise me, having seen threads on here with people not considering anything below 26" for their bedrooms :)

    Personally I find even 26" too large for my living room, as the TV starts to dominate everything. But I am picky about the picture quality.

    I'm looking for something with good black levels and contrast, a clean crisp picture without too much processing, and a PC input with 1:1 pixel mapping - for starters. 1280x768 native res is also near the top of the list, as I've tried another TV in 1360x768 and although my video card driver could be updated to run at this, I found the system slowed down slightly - as though it was having to do some work in software that was previously done in hardware.

    So far I've tried the Sharp Aquos 26" (too big, too square, but to my eyes a very nice picture with about the best blacks I've seen - unfortunately they don't do a 23"), and the Samsung 23" (just the right size, but the blacks looked rubbish to me, and it whined - also see mention of PC slowing down above).

    That narrows the field considerably.

    I'm looking at the Toshiba 23WL46 at the moment, as all the others I've researched have something that doesn't work for me (often they don't have 1:1 pixel mapping, which is an immediate no for me). But I have no idea what the PQ/blacks are like - not that many places stock it, so it's hard to just go somewhere and have a look (eg Currys), and the spec is not the same as the larger models (ie 26" and up) so I can't just check them out standing further away and get any kind of idea.

    So, does anyone have any direct experience of this, or any other good 23" set (bearing in mind the above criteria), or am I stuffed?
     
  2. Kilburn

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    I'm in exactly the same position, looking for a 23” LCD because that is the best size for my room IMO, and is a better size for displaying standard 576 line PAL TV images without them appearing too bad.

    The Samsung seems the best of the current models out there for my needs, but I am concerned about the whining noise (how loud is it?). The Toshiba has no PC input, so I’ve ruled that out. I also considered the Philips 23pf9956, but this is passed on an oldish panel now. The other one to maybe consider is the JVC LT23D50.

    What I am waiting for currently is the new Sony KLVS23A10 – due out next week. Unlike previous Sony 23” in has a PC input, although annoyingly has not got HDMI unlike the 26” & 32” in the same range. With it being one of Sony’s brand new range, I have high hopes for improved picture quality.
     
  3. markino

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    I think the whining is something that either bothers you or it doesn't, and I think it's something to do with the backlight.

    It bothered me. It isn't really loud, but to both me and my wife it was clearly audible whenever there was a picture showing, but cut out if there was no feed (which is why I think it's the backlight). Mind you, it didn't bother me as much as the black levels.

    Unless we're talking about different models, the Toshiba DOES have a PC input, and as far as the manual goes it can take a signal in native resolution (1280x768). But according to the manual for the Philips, although it can take a PC input, it can't take a PC input at native res (only at 1024x768 or something, which brings up sharpness and aspect ratio issues). As far as I know, the JVC falls into the same category - no PC input at native resolution.

    The Sony sounds interesting, but I'd be interested to see the specs on it.
     
  4. Kilburn

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    Thanks for that info on the Toshiba, and the problems with PC input on the JVC and Phillips. I can definitely rule out those last two on that basis, as I definitely want native resolution for PC display. Anything else on an LCD looks terrible.

    There is a very positive review here on the US version of the new Sony 23" - http://www.lcdtvbuyingguide.com/lcdtvreviews/sony-klvs23a10-review.shtml

    If you look on the 'new sony' thread, there is more info and pics of the range, and an idea of the price for the 23" - £899 from John Lewis (hopefuly a lot cheaper online!).
     
  5. markino

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    Thanks for that. The review does look quite positive, although obviously you can never tell until you clap eyes on these things :)

    I also tracked down a manual for the US version, and it looks like it does support an input at full (1366x768) resolution. Although I don't know how it would fare with 1360x768 which is the closest output most graphics cards seem able to manage.

    The thing that worries me slightly though, is that in the new sony thread you mentioned there is a suggestion that the whole new range will not have PC input, as they do (at least some of them) in the US.

    That would be poor...
     
  6. spickee

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    Next door neighbour bought a Digix, I think it was, from Currys last weekend. 23" for £399. It has excellent connectivity options, composite, scart, component, VGA and RF.

    On initial setup with a weak aerial signal it was crap, after a bit of playing with the wiring things improved dramatically. Picture is excellent, he isn't using the built in speakers, but they would be more than adequate for a small room. The only problem the screen has is wall mounting, you would probably end up having to make something yourself, as it isn't vesa compatible at all, there are some likely screw holes on the back but you would have to have a go yourself.

    For £400 though it was a steal and looks great in his lounge.
     
  7. markino

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    Although I just called the Sony customer info centre and they say it will have PC input...
     
  8. Kilburn

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    Good news. Sadly no HDMI input though, which is a shame.

    Did they confirm the release date for the set by any chance?
     
  9. markino

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    All they had was October, and they said they seldom know until just beforehand when actual release will be.
     
  10. markino

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    And just complicate things further (from my second post) I've just had a reply from Philips (only took a week or so) to say that, contrary to the information in the manual for the 23pf9986, it does support PC input at native resolution through DVI-I only (not the VGA, which is limited to 1024x768), and so does the 23pf4310.

    I assume this means that they will accept native resolution from the analogue portion of the DVI-I signal, not only from the digital portion..?

    I'll mail them back to ask, so that'll be another week then.
     
  11. Kilburn

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    I would guess that it is DVI-DVI connections that would be native resolution, although I have read reports elswhere on these forums about people having problems getting any picture at all from a PC via the DVI input.
     
  12. markino

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    It is the DVI-I input they are talking about, but DVI-I has the capacity and pins for both digital and analogue inputs. You just get a little VGA-to-DVI adapter and the monitor should accept the signal. The question is, whether this monitor accepts native res on this analogue signal, not just on the digital signal.

    The reports of DVI being problematic seem to be due to the way many of these monitors communicate with the graphics card when polled for their capabilities - some don't respond with any information, so the graphics card will not send a signal! I can't remember now if this would be a problem for VGA-to-DVI (as it can be for a straight DVI-DVI connection).
     
  13. shreddieeddie

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    I have been trawling through the posts over the last couple of days to try and find a recommendation for a decent 23" LCD TV. I like the look/sound of the Samsung LE26R41BD as it seems to do everything I need at a decent price - just I dont want a 26" version as I think its too big for a bedroom (replacing a 14"/15" CRT).

    Doesnt look like samsung so a 23" version with freeview which is a shame, I would settle for just a normal tuner (a I assume all LCD TV's have at least a tuner in??) at the right price, even one thats not HD ready as I dount I will ever use/notice the difference in the bedroom.

    Any advice? You guys managed to find a decent screen yet ?
     
  14. Kilburn

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    I have had a Samsung LE23R41B delivered today, so I will post back in a couple of days with my views on it once I have set it up and tested it.

    Lack of freeview built-in didn't bother me, because I already have a good-quality freeview box, that I suspect is better than the built-in tuner would have been.
     
  15. shreddieeddie

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    Cool, can you confirm from the manual then the resolution, is it 16:9 and not 15:9 ! Some confusion in a few posts and online stores. Also is it HD ready ?

    Where did you get it from if you dont mind me asking?
     
  16. Kilburn

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    I got it from DigiUK, for £499 delivered. I chose them because, as well as being cheap, they are an authorised Samsung solution centre, so if there are any problems they will hopefully be OK at dealing with them.

    I will check that it is true 16:9 (1366x768) - it had better be, as I chose it on that understainding.

    It is supposedly HD ready via component, but has no HDMI (why??). I couldn't find any 23" TV with HDMI though.
     
  17. shreddieeddie

    shreddieeddie
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    I hope it is true 16:9 like you say, have found some websites stating 1366x768 and other 1280x...

    I think this is the one I will go for.
     
  18. ims3ola

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    Doesn't the review say it does have an HDMI input though?
     
  19. Kilburn

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    No review that I've seen says that it does have HDMI, althouth the 26" and 32" versions do. I would be delighted to find that it did though!

    I will post back tomorrow to confirm.
     
  20. ims3ola

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    Kilburn - taken from the review you posted:

    "The Sony KLV-23A10 LCD Television's features compliment its picture quality. Strong sound reproduction, clean packaging, a well-designed remote control, and clear menus make using the device a pleasure. There is a way to connect just about any device to the LCD TV thanks to the included HDMI, VGA, coaxial, composite video, and component video jacks".

    "This LCD display has only one set of RCA-type component inputs and two sets of composite inputs (where either S-Video or RCA can be used). However it does include an HDMI input for HD cable and satellite box input, as well as a rare VGA 15 pin input for computer use".

    :)
     
  21. Kilburn

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    Sorry, that review was for the US version - the Uk version has Scarts instead of HDMI.

    I have been watching my new LE23R41B tonight forthe first time, but I'm going to test it some more and have a play with the settings before posting my views on it.
     
  22. ims3ola

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    :mad: why do we always get short changed :mad:
     
  23. Ginz

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    What are your thoughts then on the TV Kilburn, I'm looking at the 23" Samsung too at £499 delivered it looks a steal.
     
  24. Kong

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  25. Ginz

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    Personally the 23" is the perfect size for where I want to put it and I see £499 as being a reasonably good price.
     
  26. mpats1

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    I am thinking of purchasing this model and wold like opinions.

    Thanks
     
  27. markino

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    Don't know if you caught my comments at the beginning of the thread, but I had one of these and sent it back.

    It was pin-sharp, quite nice styling (a subjective issue, obviously), nice menu system, and I got it working using a d-sub input from my pc at 1360x768 - it made a pretty good monitor.

    BUT it whined when showing an active input, and for me the black levels were nowhere near good enough. Probably not much better than my old Relisys 17" set, actually.
     

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