Question Has anyone realised a no deal hard brexit means the end of minimum wage?

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Colin Glover

Standard Member
Has anyone realised the above statement about a no deal brexit? If we get a soft brexit with some king of free movement of Labour,(evvin with limits) will mean we'd have to keep NMW, whereas a no deal means we can do as we please and scrap it? Did you realise this?
 

Bl4ckGryph0n

Distinguished Member
Seriously dude? Sounds like you've been "Corbyn'd" hook line and sinker...
 

Squiffy

Distinguished Member
OMG. A no deal brexit means we can scrap all workers rights, all environmental protection laws, and have to sacrifice our first born children.

And it's not like us voters will be able to do anything in response to a government that did this at the following election....:confused:
 

weaviemx5

Distinguished Member
And it's not like us voters will be able to do anything in response to a government that did this at the following election....:confused:
I know where you’re coming from with regards to the other half of your post but the “just vote them out” response is the same old mantra. That’s all very well but what happens in the 5 years between GE’s? Yes, local elections can be seen as an indicator, but recent elections show that Governments can also just ignore them if they choose.

There’s an inherent fear in the Conservative Party at the moment of a Corbyn Government (and in most Labour voters to be fair) but why don’t they just remember that he can just be voted out if the country isn’t happy? Seems simple enough.
 

Squiffy

Distinguished Member
I know where you’re coming from with regards to the other half of your post but the “just vote them out” response is the same old mantra. That’s all very well but what happens in the 5 years between GE’s? Yes, local elections can be seen as an indicator, but recent elections show that Governments can also just ignore them if they choose.
Right now, for most workers rights we are above the EU mandated minimum.

The minimum wage is not mandated by the EU.

So what's to stop rights being reduced and the minimum wage being scrapped right now?

Could it be... The government know voters won't like that?

There’s an inherent fear in the Conservative Party at the moment of a Corbyn Government (and in most Labour voters to be fair) but why don’t they just remember that he can just be voted out if the country isn’t happy? Seems simple enough.
It is simple enough. Not sure what your point is?

Unless you think the Tories should be happy about losing an election?
 

weaviemx5

Distinguished Member
Right now, for most workers rights we are above the EU mandated minimum.

The minimum wage is not mandated by the EU.

So what's to stop rights being reduced and the minimum wage being scrapped right now?

Could it be... The government know voters won't like that?


It is simple enough. Not sure what your point is?

Unless you think the Tories should be happy about losing an election?
That didn’t answer my question though. I’m not really interested in the likelihood of the UK Government suddenly scrapping the minimum wage, because I agree that they probably wouldn’t. My point was about the more simplistic idea that we can just vote out the Government if we’re not happy. If that’s the idea, what happens in the 5 years between GE’s and the Government go ahead and make changes that ‘we’ don’t like over those 5 years?

Ok, as an example, making low level changes might annoy people and not really have a massive effect, or any at all on them, but what if they did decide to scrap something like the minimum wage, after they were elected? There would be 5 years of that, with people at the lowest end of the wage scale being directly impacted and they themselves could do nothing about it for 5 years, and that’s assuming that enough people then voted against the Government at the next GE.

That’s what I meant by the Tories currently fearing, above all else, a Corbyn Government. Why aren’t they just saying what you are about simply voting him out if they’re not happy, at the next election?
 

Bl4ckGryph0n

Distinguished Member
That didn’t answer my question though. I’m not really interested in the likelihood of the UK Government suddenly scrapping the minimum wage, because I agree that they probably wouldn’t.
Yet that is the topic of this thread ;)

My point was about the more simplistic idea that we can just vote out the Government if we’re not happy. If that’s the idea, what happens in the 5 years between GE’s and the Government go ahead and make changes that ‘we’ don’t like over those 5 years?
That is applicable to any policy, not limited to this specifically...What if, what if, what if....How often has that actually happened? The only time in recent history that I can think off was the LidDems and the tuition fee, although in my opinion they were unfairly punished for that as they entered a coalition and you simply can't do everything.

Ok, as an example, making low level changes might annoy people and not really have a massive effect, or any at all on them, but what if they did decide to scrap something like the minimum wage, after they were elected? There would be 5 years of that, with people at the lowest end of the wage scale being directly impacted and they themselves could do nothing about it for 5 years, and that’s assuming that enough people then voted against the Government at the next GE.
What if, what if, what if....

We have the lowest level of unemployment since a long time. A company makes money by producing products/services that add value and can be sold. Not having any staff would not be very useful to fulfil that purpose.

I can't see it happening.
 

weaviemx5

Distinguished Member
Yet that is the topic of this thread ;)


That is applicable to any policy, not limited to this specifically...What if, what if, what if....How often has that actually happened? The only time in recent history that I can think off was the LidDems and the tuition fee, although in my opinion they were unfairly punished for that as they entered a coalition and you simply can't do everything.


What if, what if, what if....

We have the lowest level of unemployment since a long time. A company makes money by producing products/services that add value and can be sold. Not having any staff would not be very useful to fulfil that purpose.

I can't see it happening.
Again, ignoring my question. I've already agreed that the Government wouldn't scrap the minimum wage, twice, so your "what if, what if, what if" posts were irrelevant.

I know where you’re coming from with regards to the other half of your post
I’m not really interested in the likelihood of the UK Government suddenly scrapping the minimum wage, because I agree that they probably wouldn’t.
 
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nheather

Distinguished Member
Has anyone realised the above statement about a no deal brexit? If we get a soft brexit with some king of free movement of Labour,(evvin with limits) will mean we'd have to keep NMW, whereas a no deal means we can do as we please and scrap it? Did you realise this?
And you know this how? Do you have insider information from the government? Or are you a visiting time traveller?

We have no idea what will happen. Many countries that are not in the EU have a minimum wage, why do you think that the UK would not have one.

Chances are, the UK will continue to operate all the good legislation that it has inherited from the EU, including minimum wage. But I'll hold my hands up and admit that I don't know for sure, because unlike you, I do not have a fully functioning crystal ball.

Cheers,

Nigel
 

Cliff

Distinguished Member
Has anyone realised the above statement about a no deal brexit? If we get a soft brexit with some king of free movement of Labour,(evvin with limits) will mean we'd have to keep NMW, whereas a no deal means we can do as we please and scrap it? Did you realise this?
Why do you suppose that? Why would we want to scrap it?
Can I ask where you got this scare story from?
 

Squiffy

Distinguished Member
That didn’t answer my question though. I’m not really interested in the likelihood of the UK Government suddenly scrapping the minimum wage, because I agree that they probably wouldn’t. My point was about the more simplistic idea that we can just vote out the Government if we’re not happy. If that’s the idea, what happens in the 5 years between GE’s and the Government go ahead and make changes that ‘we’ don’t like over those 5 years?
And?

This is how our politics works. We vote for a Government. If they don't deliver what they said they would, or make unpopular changes that were not in their manifesto then the electorate can throw them out.

I'm not sure what alternative you are suggesting? We could have referendum for everything, but given they don't seem able to implement one from three years ago that would see government grind to a halt.

Ok, as an example, making low level changes might annoy people and not really have a massive effect, or any at all on them, but what if they did decide to scrap something like the minimum wage, after they were elected? There would be 5 years of that, with people at the lowest end of the wage scale being directly impacted and they themselves could do nothing about it for 5 years, and that’s assuming that enough people then voted against the Government at the next GE.
And if not enough people vote against them, that's democracy and maybe the small changes weren't as big a deal as you think.

That’s what I meant by the Tories currently fearing, above all else, a Corbyn Government. Why aren’t they just saying what you are about simply voting him out if they’re not happy, at the next election?
I really don't think you understand how political parties work. They want to win every election. They aren't going to just shrug their shoulders and say "maybe next time".
 

weaviemx5

Distinguished Member
And?

This is how our politics works. We vote for a Government. If they don't deliver what they said they would, or make unpopular changes that were not in their manifesto then the electorate can throw them out.

I'm not sure what alternative you are suggesting? We could have referendum for everything, but given they don't seem able to implement one from three years ago that would see government grind to a halt.


And if not enough people vote against them, that's democracy and maybe the small changes weren't as big a deal as you think.


I really don't think you understand how political parties work. They want to win every election. They aren't going to just shrug their shoulders and say "maybe next time".
It's just an observation. Tories, both in Government and party members, have shown that they fear a Corbyn Government more than they simply want to win the election. Recent polling has put Labour in 4th place yet the spectre of a Corbyn led Government seems to be the biggest concern.

Yet, the most common answer to concerns raised by, usually non-Conservative voters, is just to vote them out if you're not happy. I'm not denying that's how our voting works, just pointing out the exact same shrug of the shoulders response when it comes from someone who supports the party in power.
 

Squiffy

Distinguished Member
Is anyone saying anything other than we would have to wait till the next election to throw the government out?

If labour wins the next election, I won't like it but I'll accept they are in power and get to implement their manifesto.

You still haven't said how you expect it to work otherwise? Referendums on everything? Elections every six months? What?

I'm happy that we have elections as the opportunity to change government. I don't see the need for the electorate to have any other levers to influence government other than the power to throw them out at the next election.
 

weaviemx5

Distinguished Member
Is anyone saying anything other than we would have to wait till the next election to throw the government out?

If labour wins the next election, I won't like it but I'll accept they are in power and get to implement their manifesto.

You still haven't said how you expect it to work otherwise? Referendums on everything? Elections every six months? What?

I'm happy that we have elections as the opportunity to change government. I don't see the need for the electorate to have any other levers to influence government other than the power to throw them out at the next election.
I haven't commented at all on how our elections work, or how I think they should be different? I was making an observation on your blanket response which, whilst democratically true, is easy to say when the party you support is in power. That's all, I'm not debating a change in British parliamentary process.
 

Squiffy

Distinguished Member
I haven't commented at all on how our elections work, or how I think they should be different? I was making an observation on your blanket response which, whilst democratically true, is easy to say when the party you support is in power. That's all, I'm not debating a change in British parliamentary process.
I thought this was your point?

My point was about the more simplistic idea that we can just vote out the Government if we’re not happy. If that’s the idea, what happens in the 5 years between GE’s and the Government go ahead and make changes that ‘we’ don’t like over those 5 years?

If you aren't happy with how our parliamentary democracy runs with up to 5 years between elections, what would you like to see replace it?
 

Cliff

Distinguished Member
Where is the OP? Succeeds in getting an unrelated discussion going and disappears.
 

weaviemx5

Distinguished Member
I thought this was your point?

My point was about the more simplistic idea that we can just vote out the Government if we’re not happy. If that’s the idea, what happens in the 5 years between GE’s and the Government go ahead and make changes that ‘we’ don’t like over those 5 years?

If you aren't happy with how our parliamentary democracy runs with up to 5 years between elections, what would you like to see replace it?
Nope, still not getting (or ignoring) my point. I’m not trying to change parliamentary process, I’m saying that it’s so simple to just tell people that they can just vote out the Government if they’re not happy (for example, with the theoretical removal of minimum wage). If that’s the case, why are Tories terrified of a Corbyn Government when they can just vote him out if they’re not happy.
 

Squiffy

Distinguished Member
Yes I'm not getting your point.

The electorate getting to vote on whether they want to change a government is different to career politicians wanting to stay in power.

I'd not want Corbyn in power for 5 minutes, let alone 5 years. But it it happens I'll wait till the next election. Even though whatever he does could be undone, I'd rather not suffer the damage in the meantime. But I'd accept it if he wins.

I won't spend my time bemoaning how our parliamentary democracy works. It's just the way it is.

Do you think that I don't accept how our democracy works? You think I should just shrug about the prospect of a government I don't support getting in? Or should I be free to advocate for policies I prefer from people I'd prefer to implement them?
 

Pacifico

Distinguished Member
Chances are, the UK will continue to operate all the good legislation that it has inherited from the EU, including minimum wage.

But having a minimum wage is not an EU mandated policy - several countries inside the EU have no minimum wage including Sweden, Finland, Denmark and Austria
 

Greg Hook

Moderator & Reviewer
New member joins an AV Forum and immediately starts posting in the Politics forum. Hmmm.

I'm a remainer, but to say that if we had a no-deal hard brexit we are suddenly going to remove the minimum wage is nonsense. This kind of rubbish does no good to anyone at all.

It won't ever be a no-deal hard brexit anyway, anyone that thinks this is a possibility has clearly been living under a rock for the last 4 months.
 

Goooner

Distinguished Member
“Sorry Mr Corbyn, the experts have decided a Labour government will destroy the country, I’m afraid we’re just going to have to overturn the result” :rotfl:
 

richp007

Distinguished Member
New member joins an AV Forum and immediately starts posting in the Politics forum. Hmmm.

I'm a remainer, but to say that if we had a no-deal hard brexit we are suddenly going to remove the minimum wage is nonsense. This kind of rubbish does no good to anyone at all.

It won't ever be a no-deal hard brexit anyway, anyone that thinks this is a possibility has clearly been living under a rock for the last 4 months.
You've not been here before then? o_O;)

This section has built a city under rubble! :D
 

IronGiant

Moderator
New member joins an AV Forum and immediately starts posting in the Politics forum.
Not entirely true, he asked a question about his turntable first...
 

weaviemx5

Distinguished Member
You think I should just shrug about the prospect of a government I don't support getting in?
That's my point. You're, understandably, not really willing to just shrug your shoulders and accept a result that you feel would damage the country, yet you tell others (who don't necessarily agree with your political viewpoint) that they should, "just vote them out" if they're not happy, which is a hollow gesture when it will be 5 years of the damage that others see as likely before they could even have the chance of voting them out.

As I said, it's just my opinion on the simple statement, I'm not trying to change politics :smashin:
 

Squiffy

Distinguished Member
That's my point. You're, understandably, not really willing to just shrug your shoulders and accept a result that you feel would damage the country, yet you tell others (who don't necessarily agree with your political viewpoint) that they should, "just vote them out" if they're not happy, which is a hollow gesture when it will be 5 years of the damage that others see as likely before they could even have the chance of voting them out.

As I said, it's just my opinion on the simple statement, I'm not trying to change politics :smashin:
I literally just said I'd be willing to wait for the next election.

I'd not want Corbyn in power for 5 minutes, let alone 5 years. But it it happens I'll wait till the next election. Even though whatever he does could be undone, I'd rather not suffer the damage in the meantime. But I'd accept it if he wins.

I really don't know what point you are trying to make. Seems you are trying to make me out to be hypocritical about what I'd do if a government I didn't like was passing laws I didn't want.

I've been ultra clear, I'd accept it is how our democracy works. We get a say roughly every 5 years so you have to make that count for the policies you want to see brought forward.
 

Sonic67

Distinguished Member
Has anyone realised the above statement about a no deal brexit? If we get a soft brexit with some king of free movement of Labour,(evvin with limits) will mean we'd have to keep NMW, whereas a no deal means we can do as we please and scrap it? Did you realise this?
How wrong are you? Let us count the ways.

1. Minimum wage has nothing to do with the EU.
2. Not all EU countries even have it.
3. Any scrapping of any rights would be political suicide for the party that did it. We got the rights we have without the EU.

So was this project fear? Remainer ignorance what?
EU.JPG
 
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Sonic67

Distinguished Member
I know where you’re coming from with regards to the other half of your post but the “just vote them out” response is the same old mantra.
Because it's correct and I note it triggers the same old mantra from you every time.

We have a political system where those in charge rely on our votes to be in power. The EU's heads don't. They aren't answerable to an electorate, ours are.
 

EarthRod

Distinguished Member
Has anyone realised the above statement about a no deal brexit? If we get a soft brexit with some king of free movement of Labour,(evvin with limits) will mean we'd have to keep NMW, whereas a no deal means we can do as we please and scrap it? Did you realise this?
A no deal means we realise our own destiny and the elected government carrying out its obligations and policies within the boundaries of our democratic process; without interference or directives from outside bureaucratic organisations.
 

IronGiant

Moderator
Colin seems a bit confused. Perhaps it was late.
 
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