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H57, Infocus 5700 or Z3: brightness and keystone issues

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by Chairman Mao, Nov 9, 2004.

  1. Chairman Mao

    Chairman Mao
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    Hello all. I've read through lots of excellent postings, tried a few projectors and have narrowed down my choice for a new projector to the Optoma H57, Infocus 5700, or Sanyo Z3. The infocus 5700 had the edge, until I noticed what I think was a reference to it having no horizontal keystone or lens correction (infocus website is unclear on type of keystone correction). My projector will need to have some horizontal correction as it will be placed to the side of the sofa. Can anyone confirm whether the 5700 has horizontal correction, and if the H57 and Z3 have horizontal correction (I think the Z3 does).

    My other main issue has been brightness. My living room will have some ambient light. Reviews of the 5700 highlight its good performance in ambient light (c.f. Sim2 or other DLPs). Can anyone advise on relative brightness and performance of these 3 projectors in ambient light (will Z3, as a LCD, be the brightest?). I appreciate the H57 is not widely available yet, but a few posters have seen it at a London expo and I'd be grateful for their comments.

    Finally, one factor in the 5700's favour was the Faroudja DCDi deinterlacer. Does anyone know what de-interlacer the H57 has and how that compares to the Faroudja DCDi deinterlacer? Thanks. Grateful for any other views on these 3 projectors.
     
  2. SimonInd

    SimonInd
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    I considered the H57 but the throw is quite long so you should check that it would work in your room. The InFocus de-interlacer will probably be better which will give it the edge in that respect, however the increased contrast and the super low fan-noise of the H57 would give it the edge for me. The Z3 will be good but I'd be surprised if it can hold a candle the other two. I've decided to spend a bit more and get a benQ 8700 but I'm not sure I'd have arrived at that choice if the '57 had fitted into my room...

    Simon
     
  3. xaser1066

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    Hi, talking to a Themescene engineer at the What Hifi show, he said that the H57 would be available with a short throw adapter lens, and that I should phone them in two weeks for more information.....
     
  4. SimonInd

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    Interesting about the lens adapter, I though it odd releasing a medium/low budget projector which would only project a decent size image in palatial rooms. I've ordered the benQ, justifying the extra cost by the presence of the Mustang HD2+ chip and the higher resolution that it delivers. I never bothered with FFDShow on my HTPC as I had an AE100 and I didn't think it was worth the trouble, however with this there's months of tweaking potential :)

    Having re-read your post, the other thing I'd say is that you should, if possible, avoid any keystone adjustment as it ruins the image quality. Ceiling mounting, or a rear wall shelf, is often the easiest way to place the projector such that you don't need to use the keystone adjustments but if you must mount it off centre, maybe a Z3 or HS50 is the way to go as they both feature a lens shift which is infinitely preferable to using the keystone adjustment.

    Simon
     
  5. Chairman Mao

    Chairman Mao
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    Thanks v helpful. Didn't know digital keystone had such a negative effect. Optoma website confirms H57 will have horizontal keystone correction though. If I was stuck with positioning to the side, would you therefore recommend the HS50 with lens shift over the H57 with keystone shift, even though the H57 has the better image straight on? Can you also comment on brightness. My benchmark is the 5700 which is bright enough. Do you know (or can guess) if either the H57 or HS50 are as bright? All the pjs I am considering are rated at 800-1000, but I know that ratings and actual brightness can be vastly different. (f.i. I will be using the pj only with DVDs). On throw, H57 will fit in my room OK, but a shorter lens adapter would be useful, did anyone get confirmation if this will be included as standard?
     
  6. Chairman Mao

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    sorry, to add to that, can anyone recommend a reasonably priced DLP projector with lens shift?
     
  7. Liam @ Prog AV

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    I'd put the H57's picture above the 5700. Both are very capable of producing accurate images but the H57 just plain has a bigger pallette to play with from its DarkChip2 DLP chip. Both manufacturers integrate their processors well, the 8-bit Faroudja's only advantage over Optomas chip (which I'm pretty sure is a 10-bit Trident) is the directional deinterlacing to prevent jaggies on film based material. Otherwise the Tridents will happilly hold their own against Faroudja and SilImage chips, even bettering them in some areas. All in all I reckon the 5700 just seems to have had its day now, until IF can launch a DarkChip2 version anyway.

    However, for your brightness requirement I would recommend neither and instead go for the Mitsubishi HC900 - 1300ANSI (although pdf says 1500 now so I'm not sure which is true) and same light engine and chipsets as Optoma use in the H57. Basically the Optoma but brighter and with a slightly shorter throw.

    ChairmanMao - I don't think there exists a reasonably priced DLP with lens shift!!!
     
  8. Chairman Mao

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    Thanks Liam. Do you or others have a view on whether I'd get a better image from a side positioned H57 (or Mitsubishi HC900) using keystone correction, or a AE700 using lens shift? (Am now considering AE700 over Z3 or HS50 as reviews claim it is brighter - see especially scathing review of HS50 at www.projectorcentral.com/sony_vpl-hs51.htm) How large is the digital keystone degredation?
     
  9. Liam @ Prog AV

    Liam @ Prog AV
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    Tricky question. Keystone used lightly is only aparent to the most hawk-eyed among us, but if you're talking about using a fecking great whack of adjustment then you will get innaccurate images where straight lines find themselves curling and detail not being sharp in the worst areas since detail is compressed into fewer pixels and in the wrong shape. Lens shift does not exhibit any of these issues since the image remains squarely proportioned and the optics are shifted instead. If it were me, unless the position was literally in the corner of the room requiring a mass of keystone, I would still want the much superior DLP image.
     
  10. SimonInd

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    Doesn't keystone adjustment re-engage the scaler removing the benefit of 1:1 mapping from a HTPC or DVI equipped DVD player? If you're thinking of using one of these sources to get the best out of the projector then any keystone adjustment is to be avoided.

    I haven't seen a key-stoned DLP vs. a LCD projector so I can't comment on which is better, although with people saying the HS50 is as good as some DLP projectors you have to wonder whether a 1:1 mapped HS50 (using lens shift ) wouldn't be better than a keystone adjusted H57...

    Chairman Mao, I wouldn't put too much weight in the AE700 vs. Z3 vs. HS50 reviews just yet. Once a few people have got them home we'll see what each of their shortcomings are. From reviews and forum posts so far: the HS50 seems to be the dimmest, AE700 has the worst vertical banding, leaving the Z3 as the projector that owners are most satisfied with at the moment. If I was buying a sub £2K LCD the Z3 would probably be top of my list. Ideally you should demo them to be sure but that is often quite difficult.

    Simon
     
  11. Liam @ Prog AV

    Liam @ Prog AV
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    Simon - in theory of course any application of keystone is less than the theoretical perfect, but in the real world compromise is gonna have to be made somewhere. If you look at a PJ being fed NR and then again with some keystone applied I gaurantee you won't see the difference, up to a point that is!

    Don't forget the TX100 in the sub £2k LCD market, not very different at all from Sanyo Z3...

    Still a tricky one though Moa, sounds like you're gonna need to demo a DLP and play around with the keystone adjustment, and test an LCD for comparison.
     
  12. Chairman Mao

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    Thanks. Looks like I will probably go for the Mitsubishi HC900. Specs do indeed look similar to optoma, except HC900 doesn't have darkchip2. Mitsubishi website implies HC900 has horizontal keystone, but not entirely clear. I will check, unless anyone can confirm for me. Do you own, or have demoed a HC900 Liam? Any hidden problems? If it has the same light engine and chipsets as H57 (minus darkchip2) I presume it produces a v similar picture. The only down side looks to be a noisy fan, but that is to be expected with 1500ANSI. Demoing is difficult for me - as the name implies, I am in the People's Republic. For all its rapid economic development, still ain't no HC projectors in China. So I'll be importing.
     
  13. Liam @ Prog AV

    Liam @ Prog AV
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    Didn't realise HC900 was using the older DLP chip. Will hopefully get to see on ein a couple of weeks but have not seen one to date I'm afraid. I'm sure someone on the forum will comment soon enough. Definitely has keystone though.
     

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