Guide: HDR TVs for gamers - 2016 Edition

Discussion in 'What Is The Best TV For You?' started by Dodgexander, Sep 15, 2016.

  1. Dodgexander

    Dodgexander
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    Its commonly asked, so here's my own personal recommendation of HDR TV's for gaming, from first to worst.

    High End
    HDR as its meant to be

    Sony KD-65ZD9 - Seems to be the better with HDR than the Samsung but the input lag is a bit higher at around 40-45ms. Also in 75 inch. Stole the brightness crown from the Samsung KS9500.
    Samsung KS9500 - HDTVtest HDTV shootout winner for HDR.
    Panasonic DX-902 - A great price and great HDR.
    Sony XD94 - If you need to bigger than 65" and need FALD its a good value TV for gaming and HDR. Not as good as the ZD9 though.
    LG G6/E6/C6/B6 - Reclaims a place in the high end, LG have released a fix to add game mode to these models in the USA, due to be released here soon. Input lag is a respectable (and steady) 34ms on the C6. I was debating putting these at the top spot due to the OLEDs nature of having next to no motion blur vs LCDs but because the other TVs get a lot brighter, I think they may still be preferable to some. For those of you who appreciate less motion blur but don't mind loosing the extra brightness with HDR the others can provide. These will be preferred. The B6 remains to have high input lag when connected to a PC with 10bit 4:4:4 chroma and UHD. This isn't an issue for console gamers and PC gamers can tune down to 8 bit anyway.
    Philips 7601 - Perhaps not as polished as the others but incredible value for a FALD TV and low input lag in HDR.

    Mid Range
    HDR will still wow, but you may find more clouding and light bleed with these tvs in HDR mode. These TV's may also not have as effective local dimming to separate dark's from brights but they still do a good enough job to warrant buying one.
    Samsung KS8/9000 - As good as the KS7 series but with less motion blur, worth it for gamers.
    Samsung KS7/7500 - Great value HDR TV, the minimum I would buy to enjoy HDR.
    Panasonic DX-750/780/800 - Doesn't have the hardware for true hdr, but does a good job displaying the signal. Unlike Sony below though these all have VA panels.

    Low End
    These tv's aren't great for HDR but instead are the best of a bad bunch, they will process a HDR signal and show improved colour, but in many cases it may actually be better to game on them with HDR off.
    Samsung KU6400,6500 series # - Great TV for budget gaming. Will accept a HDR signal and show it with better colours than SDR but will be lacking everywhere else, local dimming and brightness is poor. KU6000/KU6300 are similar but don't have a wide colour gamut so colours will look worse with HDR. Beware 49" and 55" versions have been spotted with PLS panels. (Similar worse contrast to IPS)
    Panasonic DX-700 - Same as above except all versions have VA panels. More input lag then the Samsung's though.
    Hisense M5500/M7000 - VA panels which is nice, lowish input lag and will process a HDR signal. The M7000 does a lot better with the colours than the M5500.
    Sony XD8xxx series* - Copes with HDR well but lacks the brightness and local dimming of more expensive sets. Warning it's seems only the 43" XD80 (not XD83) comes with a VA panel. The rest seem IPS.

    If you need wider viewing angles than 20 degree horizontally and can't afford an OLED, beware those these IPS panel tv's have worse black levels and contrast of all of the above, otherwise for HDR quality they fit in to the lower category.

    LG LCDs UH770v and higher - Slightly high input lag with HDR at around 60ms probs fine for casual gamers.
    Sony XD85 series - finally fixed input lag so it's around 60ms like the LG above.
    Philips 6501 (bonus of having ambilight making its ips blacks look darker)!


    Special mentions:

    Sony XD93 - at last 60ms input lag vs over 100 made HDR gaming possible on these TVs finally. Still struggle to see why a gamer wouldn't go for the Samsung KS8000 though when it has still 3x less input lag.

    Conclusion and notes:

    There's no good small sized tvs for displaying HDR. The best you can get is the 43" curved Samsung KS7500. Otherwise its at least a 49" KS7000 for flat. - Its a gap in the market that I'm hoping to see filled next year.

    There are lots of TV's that market HDR but are very poor at displaying it. Chances are if the TV isn't on the list it falls in to that category. Just having HDR on a TV isn't the same principle as a HDready logo, there's more to it than that.

    Don't fall for the buzzwords;
    10 bit = actually not as important as you think. All that counts for HDR is a wide colour gamut and % colour coverage in the rec 2020 colourspace. There are 8 bit panels with HDR capable colours and 10 bit panels without. Bit depth is not important with HDR (yet).

    HDR+ = this is just a mode to convert normal SDR to HDR. Don't use it.

    800hz/400hz etc - forget these fake refresh rates it means nothing with gaming. All that counts is motion blur. There are some 60hz TVs and some 120hz and even then it's not important because so many 60hz TVs already have low motion blur. Some 120hz TVs actually have more. Remember your console won't input more than 60 and it's likely it will struggle to always reach 60fps anyway.

    Seating distance;
    HDR can be benefited from anywhere as it's features lay in brightness and colour. UHD resolution is another matter. Want your UHD TV to look better than your FHD one? Be sure to sit closer and or get a bigger screen to notice a quality difference. See:
    UHD vs FHD

    The latest HDMI 2.0a poses bandwidth restrictions on the new PS4 pro. This means it's not possible to send RGB with a 10 bit signal whilst using HDR. It seems current behaviour from the console is to display HDR in 8 bit in RGB or use YUV 4:2:0.

    Plasma users may have to spend more than they expect to get a good gaming experience, you just can't beat the value vs pq of a plasma TV anymore. In some areas a Plasma won't be beaten by even a high end LCD. In which instance I recommend saving for an OLED.

    You may ask what would I buy? I don't know, I am not lucky, nor rich enough to afford a HDR console or TV. My wisest words would perhaps to be to wait until next years tv's are released in spring onward. There may be better HDR vs bang for buck tv's then.

    This is by no means any official valuation, these are my own personal recommendations based on professional reviews and user reviews. Please don't hold anything against me! Any more info or spotted an error? let me know. I'll try to keep everything updated. Feel welcome to ask questions or discuss alternatives below.

    -Dodge

    * The Sony XD80/83 series is a bit of a lottery when it comes to panel types right now. It seems like the 43 inch version has a VA panel but not sure about the other variants. We're still waiting for reviews in Europe of these TV. They also only seem to support HDR on HDMI ports 2 and 3.

    # Some of these tv's may not all have full HDMI 2.0a inputs. The Samsung KU series for example looks like it only has 1 HDMI 2.0a and 2 HDMI 2.0. This means no HDR on ports 2 and 3. This is not the case for the KS series as all there ports are HDMI 2.0a fully supporting HDR.
     
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    Last edited: Sep 5, 2017
  2. Sturtie

    Sturtie
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    Hello

    I have THE Samsung UE40JU7000

    Will it be a big diffirence for ps pro gaming if i buy the KS7000 of KS7500 ?

    Greetz
     
  3. ajspurs

    ajspurs
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    Nice guide mate, will help a lot of people out in this period!
     
  4. famouscookster

    famouscookster
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    the main problem for hdr gaming is finding a tv where the input lag doesnt increase drastically when hdr is enabled.There needs to be a hdr input lag test done on the tvs too as it is a lot more than the pc and game modes input lag.
     
  5. canucks1992

    canucks1992
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    vizio P series is a great one too!
     
  6. Dodgexander

    Dodgexander
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    Hard to tell unfortunately, I think you will get a better HDR picture overall because the local dimming of the new TV's is better but then again motion blur is clearer on your older TV. I guess if you buy one of the new consoles and try it with HDR see if you can select game mode. If you can't the likelihood is you are playing with higher input lag. If its too high to game with, either disable HDR or upgrade. There's also the possibility Samsung may update it to work like they have done on the 2016 models but I wouldn't hold my breath.

    Yes this is principally the problem, I made sure when selecting these tv's that they all support game mode with HDR enabled. The only exception is the Samsung KS series, but that has been confirmed to be fixed soon in an update. Most of my info is based upon rtings.com which is a north american review site so there could be small differences between models, but all on the list should work with HDR and reduced lag no problem.

    It is, if you're lucky enough to live in north america where they are sold!
     
  7. famouscookster

    famouscookster
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    yeah i use the ratings site,not been on for a while just checked they have done a few hdr leo bodnars but not my tv noooooooooooooo lol
     
  8. arj7

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    Does anyone know much about the
    LG49UH750V ?
     
  9. Dodgexander

    Dodgexander
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    Looks like a cut down version of the 770v. See LG's 2016 TV line-up - full overview - FlatpanelsHD

    Lower power speakers, slower hz panel and lacking Dolby Vision support, but apart from that a lot of the picture features look similar to the higher models. For the price I think other tv's beat it.
     
  10. Dodgexander

    Dodgexander
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    I've added the Philips 6501 to the recommendation list with the IPS panels, its actually more favourable than the other tv's within that section in my opinion, low enough input lag, a lot cheaper and does a decent job at converting HDR accurately to lower its lower nits. It also has top notch out of box accuracy. Added to that it has ambilight so although its an IPS panel, the light behind makes the blacks look richer. Philips 49PUS6501 UHD 4K TV Review
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2016
  11. tazmago

    tazmago
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    Great thread Dodge, but can I pick your brain for a moment?

    I'm looking at OLED vs LCD specifically with regards to gaming, and using rtings as an excellent resource. My confusion comes from the fact that most people say that OLED tvs are unmatched for gaming motion blur due to their fantastic response times, and in your table above you say there is no motion blur. Now as you know rtings do many tests when reviewing TVs, and as a part of their reviews they do a motion blur test, whereby they take a photo of the rtings logo when in motion directly from the tv screen.

    The two photos attatched below are from two reviews, the first is from the LG E6 review motion test, the second is from the Samsung KS9000 review motion test.

    Now to my eyes, yes the KS9000 has more trailing, but the E6 appears to be far softer and blurrier and loses more detail. To me the KS9000 is the more appealing image, which is very surprising when you compare response times. Does this blur have something to do with the sample and hold technique that OLEDs use?

    So with regards to native motion and gaming, am I right in thinking that OLEDs have simply replaced one form of motion blur for another?

    Man, this tv buying lark is getting so complicated :thumbsdow.
     

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    Last edited: Oct 7, 2016
  12. Dodgexander

    Dodgexander
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    I guess it depends what you're sensitive too, its hard to judge through a still picture but their rating is 80% response time and 20% overshoot. In particular the E6 has more overshoot but if you look at the 1080p 910v (or EG9100 there) you'll see there's practically no overshoot compared.

    Looking closely at the images, whilst the Samsung image looks less blurry, you can see the difference in response time vs no response time with the OLEDs by seeing a double image almost of the each letter outline. When it comes to trailing objects, be it in games, or sport or whatever, the less of a trailing object you have the less motion blur you will see.

    I'm no technical expert I'm afraid, but I know that all that counts is what you personally think of motion. I have heard that some people really don't like how the OLED TV's deal with motion and have read its down to not being used to seeing the motion flicker free compared to an LCD.

    I would suggest if you can, viewing motion on both TV's yourself in a demo. It may be hard to hook up a games console, but if you can get some kind of sports footage at UHD resolution you should be able to see which looks better to your own eyes.
     
  13. tazmago

    tazmago
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    Thanks, It won't be the first time I've taken a console into a shop to test TVs, in the past I've found Currys are the best for doing demos like this :).
     
  14. Dodgexander

    Dodgexander
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    Hey if you can do it, why not.
     
  15. arj7

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    Theres too many options out there, finding the balance between a good tv for HDR without costing too much is the problem. Im after a 48-50 inch model, but theres too many to choose from!
     
  16. Dodgexander

    Dodgexander
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    If it were me I wouldn't go for less than a KS7000/7500. Can't afford that then it's viable to buy cheap now and save until later. All TVs beneath the Samsung have the same flaws for HDR, they just don't get bright nor have good enough local dimming. There's very little difference between low and mid range with HDR generally, until you get to the Samsung KS series
     
  17. la gran siete

    la gran siete
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    Correct me if i am wrong but doesn't the Panasonic DX902 have a highly reflective surface rendering it unsuitable for bright rooms? It's a set I was rather tempted by, particularly as i decided to relocate my plasma
     
  18. Dodgexander

    Dodgexander
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    I don't think so, it has a very narrow horizontal viewing angle and the screen angles upwards very slightly but it has an anti reflection filter so will be better than TVs without. I don't think it quite works as well as the Samsung moth eye filter though.
     
  19. arj7

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    I want a tv specifically for my 'man cave' theres a space on my wall where I cant put anything bigger than 50inch. So that rules out the DX902, Im thinking of holding off till after Christmas theres bound to be some reductions !
     
  20. ChiefSmeeton

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    Great guide. Wish I'd read this prior to ordering the LG UH850 (55"). It arrives on Sunday so I will have to give it a shot before I pull the plug. [emoji106]
     
  21. Dodgexander

    Dodgexander
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    I've updated the op to include UHD and HDR lag figures according to rtings.com
     
  22. jamct

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    Although I'm not a gamer your guide is extremely comprehensive and useful to me as I think I will now wait for the 2017 models at which time (May/June) my Panny TX-L47DT50 will be over 4.5 yo. A 49"/50" will be the max possible size replacement.
     
  23. Dodgexander

    Dodgexander
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    Thanks, my guide I guess is also suitable for none gamers but the rankings may differ slightly. You're right on waiting, it's a good idea with new formats on the horizon and hopefully next year we get some better TVs. Frankly at the moment we need more options at lower screen sizes for good HDR and we need more mid range TVs doing a better job at displaying it. Time will tell I guess.
     
  24. Dodgexander

    Dodgexander
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    I wanted to add the newly reviewed Hisense M5500 to the list as it has decent input lag at 31ms however I'm reluctant to as there's no word on input lag with HDR enabled. Seems like it's starting to be a trend on some TVs where input lag increases a lot with higher bandwidth signals such as ones including HDR.

    Looking at the American Hisense H8C for example (not sure which model exactly this is here) input lag jumps from 32ms at FHD to 50 and above for UHD and even higher slightly with HDR too.

    This is something a feared when HDR gaming was announced, I hope it can be fixed on TVs affected.

    Nonetheless I'll try to keep the OP updated with any changes I see. So far it seems to be only the LG 2016 OLEDs & LG 2016 LCDs, Sony XD93, XD85, most if not all of Sony's 2015 TVs and Hisense potentially. Oddly enough the b6 OLED seems to be the least affected so hopefully LG release fixes for the other models.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2016
  25. arj7

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    Interested to see how the other LGs fair, I know someone with a fairly cheap LG using HDR and he loves it
     
  26. Dodgexander

    Dodgexander
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    Out of all the LG LCD's the 630v looks the most interesting since it seems it may not use an IPS panel. Unless you need the wider viewing angles of an IPS screen I would generally say there are better choices out there than the LG LCDs if only for this one reason.
     
  27. Mercennarius

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    I love my LG UH8500. Great picture , both types of HDR, great OS. Crisp picture from any viewing angle too.
     
  28. BenRC

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    Great write up, well done. Looking for a 43" 4k/hdr for ps4 pro. Thinking of the sony 807/8 but how do these stack up with a 1080p signal? since 99% of games will still be 1080p at best.
     
  29. Dodgexander

    Dodgexander
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    They are fine with a FHD signal. For better HDR you could also consider the Samsung KS7500 series, its a curved only model. Sadly Samsung don't do a flat KS series tv at 43"
     
  30. BenRC

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    seems everything is pointing to hanging on till the 2017 releases, hdr introducing extra lag is ridiculous for gamers. Hopefully we will see a big improvement next year.
     

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