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Guide + and HDD DVD Recorder

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by Daftboy, Jan 13, 2005.

  1. Daftboy

    Daftboy
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    Has anyone got a unit with this fitted or knows how it works?

    I was looking at the Philips model and I understand a few other models are due out later this year.
    IMO - It seems a useless function and the manufacturers should have put a second tuner or a freeview tuner for the costs? :confused:

    I just want to know :)
     
  2. JethroUK

    JethroUK
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    I'm assuming you mean Guide+ EPG bit - i have the Philips:

    Free 7 day program guide
    Point n Click setting
    Remote Channel switching on external tuners
    Auto-program "Naming"

    It may seem useless - depends what you want - I wouldn't buy HDD/DVD without one (dunno how you'd cope without one)

    so that's what 'you' want - be no good to me - i have NTL (others might have Sky, whatever - Guide+ works all)

    'Horses' n 'Courses' springs to mind
     
  3. Rasczak

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    It is a bit of a gimmick - but as Jethro says it's horses for course - if you can't have Sky+, don't want a Freeview PVR or the Sony GXD500, can't afford the Pioneer 920 and can't wait a few months for products considerably better then the Philips is all their is :( IMHO it is much better to have a decent PVR and a decent DVD recorder than a dodgy compromise - but it is indeed dependant on personal taste.
     
  4. Moray M

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    From a technical point of view, the second tuner or freeview tuner would both require additional hardware devices as well as software components. The EPG is a software feature that makes use of the existing tuner hardware in the unit. The cost of the EPG will be quite different to the cost of a second tuner or a digital tuner .
     
  5. Rasczak

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    True. But development of a Freeview tuner with EPG would have been preferrable to purchase of the GuidePlus licence IMHO.
     
  6. JethroUK

    JethroUK
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    you could also consider that you can buy anyol' freeview tuners for £30 each (Philips will control whatever you want to watch) - whereas EPG is integral, omni-service (is that a word? :) and worth £10 month

    you pays your money & takes your pick

    personally i'd like my machine with 2 built-in NTL digi tuners - but it aint gonna happen
     
  7. dmac

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    Its much more than a gimmick. I haven't got time to sit there naming the programmes my 725H records. Hardware aside ... I personally think that a decent epg will be essential to bring more people into the market for this sort of kit, it did me.
     
  8. JethroUK

    JethroUK
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    There's nothing wrong with guideplus - but that aside - what is getting absurd is the thought of 100's of companies with their own EPG, typing in 'identical' information (program listing, timings, film reviews & blurb) - when it only needs one 3rd party to do it properly & hardware manufacturers to buy it as 'information' & pipe it however they feel fit


    .
     
  9. Rasczak

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    Yes - and that's where Freeeview and Sky's official EPGs comes in. Both offer simple one touch, lossless recording that removes DOGs and other unwanted digital annoyances prior to recording. I was referring to an EPG with an analogue tuner as a gimmick because ultimately your relying on a set-top boxes your not exactly getting a cutting edge solution. But then if you have NTL as opposed to Sky you have few other options :(

    Your hard pressed to find a DVD recorder where you actually have to type things in these days: most will acquire the name from Teletext etc.
     
  10. JethroUK

    JethroUK
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    Any/Every EPG provide simple 1- Click Programming - There are no 'gimmick' versions - I know you're tryna say if Philips do it (which they do), it's a gimmick (so dont buy one), but if anyone else decides to do one it's gonna be marvelous (so wait )

    And to try and describe Sky's removal of it's very-own DOGS as "a feature" is really taking the biscuit :laugh:

    .
     
  11. Rasczak

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    Oh dear! Any EPG on an analogue system is somewhat of a gimmick - whether it is on a Panasonic, Pioneer, Philips or any other brand under the Sun - one touch recording is nice for those who can't programme a timer. And without a doubt EPG recording is the way forward. But official, integrated EPGs are the way forward as opposed to third party bolt ons.

    Fine - you record the Red Dot then and other DOGs - the rest of us will use proper PVRs that remove them prior to recording ;) I really don't see why you wouldn't regard it as a feature. On screen graphics are one of the major factors that 'ruin' modern Digital TV - a lossless HDD recorder such as Sky+ or a DVB PVR will remove them - which is probably their greatest feature.
     
  12. phelings

    phelings
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    Incidentally,the Fusion box has an option to deactivate interactivity so no annoying red dot even on live broadcasts.Useful for those without a proper pvr
     
  13. musukebba

    musukebba
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    And the Thomson DHD4000 has this option.

    I'm confused from the last two posts about what is being referred to as 'proper' PVRs?
     
  14. Rasczak

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    PVRs with inetgrated digtal tuners, all digital recording (to remove or keep digital text) and integrated EPGs. Accordingly both the Fusion and Thompson could easily be described as 'proper' PVRs
     
  15. musukebba

    musukebba
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    Thanks for the clarification. It was the post immediately previous to mine which was confusing.
     
  16. stuartdcodd

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    The original post referred to Guide + & HDD DVD Recorders

    The talk about Sky+ and Thompson, Fusion is all about PVR's and not the above which is where the Philips is and can record from SKY, NTL etc with high speed copying to DVD which you cannot do with the others
     
  17. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    But the whole point of talking about them is that they allow a better all round solution. Where an analogue EPG falls down - and I include the Pioneer and Thompson EPGs as well as Philips in this - is that it still relies on controlling an external digibox raising the possibility of errors and does nothing to remove Onscreen Interactive Services (such as Red Dot) which is what most people who are archiving want (who for example wants to record from UK Gold 'live' with so many banners on!?!). As more and more companies adopt Digital Text this is going to become more and more important.

    And not point this out is to only have half a conversation - stuartdcodd, we've all read from your previous posts that you are pro-Philips, but lets not stop short of discussing the shortcomings just to keep you happy ;)

    Virtually all HDD/DVDR combos allow high speed copying to DVDR Stuart - as fast if not faster than the Philips range. The difference is other HDD/DVDRs give you the option to re-encode should you want it, frame accurate editting, bitrate control and time base correction - all deafening by their absence from the Philips machines :thumbsdow
     
  18. JethroUK

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    But they dont have an EPG - specifically Guide+, which 'is' what the post is about

    the other units you mentioned ('real PVR'S'), cant record/control from external tuners, or copy to DVD

    Only Philips can do it all - which leaves you with only one route - Philips doesn't do any of it very well - but then again, you dont got one, so you dont know that either
     
  19. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    But effectively they can. A PVR will record the signal losslessly - you can then go through the digital > analogue > digital conversion by passing them through a Scart to a DVD recorder. The key difference between this and a Guideplus machine is that the 'PVR' bit is on the digital side so you get the digital benefit, i.e. graphic removal. And many of the PVRs can record from external sources.

    I have owned and tested the HDRW720 extensively - infact you'll be seeing a few reviews I have written of it shortly :) You are also wrong about which units can control set-top boxes - the Pioneer 920 also has Guideplus and controls other set-tops, so does the new Thompson. But that doesn't mean their analogue EPGs are naff as well. Naturally PVRs such as Fusion, Thompson, Sky+ and Pace do not need this. And any DVD recorder with Q-Link/Smartlink can be kicked into recording from a compatible digibx EPG. The world/market isn't as limited as you think Jethro....
     
  20. JethroUK

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    no i'm not - i didn't say nothing else would - i said none of the "proper pvr"'s you mentioned would

    point i'm making is that, of the several machine you mentioned - none of them can do what the Philips does - although they can if you string them all together

    you could argue that together they would make a better job - if so, stick to your argument
     
  21. Rasczak

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    And the point I am making is that two units "strung together" is exactly what the Philips solution is, i.e you have an external digibox as tuner - the Philips IS a two box solution. The difference is instead of having an EPG on the PVR you have it on the DVD recorder instead - and the drawback of this is you get lovely (!) onscreen graphics burnt onto your recordings forever more! No thanks :thumbsdow

    In what way can't the Pioneer 920 do what the Philips does? :laugh: I think you'll find it is just as effective if not more so - it's early days yet but there haven't been any compatibility problems yet.

    Have you seen SmartLink in operation? Have you seen it working with an external EPG? I am only wondering as the functionality is effectively identical depending on which digibox you buy - the only difference being the EPG is in the tuner as opposed to on the DVD recorder.

    And as you guys are keen to say "back to the original thread" you may like to notice that the original poster effectively pointed out the same - what is so 'special' about an EPG in a DVD recorder. The answer for those who have seen Smartlink, PVRs, Q-Link etc is 'nothing really'. :lesson:
     
  22. Daftboy

    Daftboy
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    It's given me a braoder aspect on it all chaps.
    BTW, checking the Guideplus website and unless they change there EPG transmission staion in the next couple of years, this feature will become useless as it is bradcast on analog ITV or satellite europsport.
    To broaden my point, I read about that place in wales where 3 customers had to take their Philips units back as they are in the trial area where they have already cut off the analog signal.

    Okay back to the first point, so you can see the EPG and choose your recordings over the next seven days, fine, but my free local paper prints the 7 day listing that I always scan on a Thursday night with my cup of tea and a chocolate hobnob and all I would have to do is enter the time or thingy number (Can't remember what that code is called) and hey presto it's done.
    For me it's not worth the extra cost, and as mentioned should have come fitted with another tuner for the cost of Guide+ license, Guide plus software and circuitry and IR cable.

    Question: If NTL made a Sky+ alternative, would you have still purchased this unit, or another model without Guide+.
    Question: On your NTL box, can you set-up "Autoview" like you can with SKY?
    Question: What was the price difference between your unit and another unit without Guide+.

    I ain't trying to pick an argument or anything like that, IMHO I just think it's redundant technology which will be outdated in the next year. Very expensive also considering it only has an analog tuner.

    FYI - I have Sky+, but I was thinking of getting the Philips or A another for the other half to record her stuff in another room ready to put onto DVD. For me, the best solution would be a £149 Freeview HDD and a £99 DVD Recorder. Given the demo the guy gave us at the local store, probably easier too.
     
  23. stuartdcodd

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    The point I was making in my earlier post wasn't so much as a pro Philips one but an anti 2 box solution which separates the DVD from the HDD as you do not get high speed recording. This is why I mentioned Sky+, Fusion, Thompson etc. At least the Philips gives me that ability which is important if you make lots of permanent recordings to DVD
     
  24. Rasczak

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    Which is incorrect. If you use Q-Link or Smartlink with a HDD/DVDR combi you get all the 'ease' of the EPG and all the features of the recorder (including high speed dubbing and, on most non-Philips models, accurate editting, playlists, timeslip, chasing playback etc). That's what I don't think you 'get' Stuart - most HDD/DVDR combis can easily match the 'functionality' offered by the Guideplus EPG and offer a whole lot more. Which is why there isn't a bigger 'Philips' faction on this board...

    But what is the point of making permanent recordings covered with Red Spots, 'Press Red' and sorts of other rubbish. The best solution is to have a proper PVR and a HDD/DVDR.

    It is certainly going to have a relatively short lifespan - the problem facing Guideplus though is one of funding - it relies on advertising revenue. And whilst this has worked in the States alot more companies have adopted it (Sony, Panasonic, Toshiba). Here in the UK only Philips and Pioneer have on their top range models only - other companies rejected it due to lack of bandwidth. Thus the issue is unless major players like Panasonic and Sony can be persaused to adopted it here in the UK, Guideplus is going to have a somewhat limited forum for it's advertisers - so where is the cash going to come from?
     
  25. JethroUK

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    No he isn't - you cant hi-speed dub from PVR to DVDR - that's the seperates you mentioned - that's the seperates he was talking about - as you know - you're just being deliberatley obtuse
     
  26. Rasczak

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    And Philips machines can't high speed dub from the Digibox to the DVD recorder! Surely you can see this exactly the same thing? Surely? Whichever setup you go for your recording an analogue signal which can be high speed dubbed the second it is in the digital domain.
     
  27. JethroUK

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    it's nothing like the same - PVR records in real time to HD and then again in real time from HD to seperate DVDR
     
  28. Rasczak

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    A PVR will offer all digital, lossless recording onto the PVR HDD. You can commence copying to DVD approx 1 second after the programme has started (it's called Timeslip ;) ). This or a Philips low bitrate analogue recording complete with the red spot? I know which I would prefer!
     
  29. pragmatic

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    Yea right :laugh:
     
  30. musukebba

    musukebba
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    yes, right.
     

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