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Graded Sony KP44PS2 Rear Projection TV

Discussion in 'Televisions' started by kron, Sep 8, 2003.

  1. kron

    kron
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    Hi,

    i see that robert whyte are still doing these graded sony rp tv's for £1000 + £90 del is this still a good deal bearing in mind the newer model (KP44PX2U) can be had for only another £160 more ?

    tia:smashin:
     
  2. bobones

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    The PS2 is a higher spec TV than the PX2. The build quality is better and it has many more features (DRC-MF, twin tuners, service menu convergence, centre speaker capability, dynamic picture and picture, better internal speakers, greater teletext memory, ...). The PS2 had an RRP of £2800 when it came out. The PX2 is basically a cut down version made to compete with the cheaper Toshiba RPTVs. The PX2 has a nicer remote and is arguably prettier on the eye, but that's a matter of personal opinion. I'm glad I went for the PS2.
     
  3. kron

    kron
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    Cheers for that bobones, i think i actualy prefer the look of the PS2..lol .DRC-MF and service menu convergence sound good but not really bothered with it's sound capabilities as i have a 6.1 setup although it is nice to have good internal speakers for when viewing ordinary progs ,PAP and greater teletext memory i could live without.
    I've read through many post's on these two and the general consensus seems to be they are quite evenly matched in terms of pic quality. The thing that is holding me back is this graded malarky.
     
  4. bobones

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    Comet online were selling the PS2 for £1300 new, but I think they're all gone now. I bought a graded one from RW and had similar concerns to you, but after reading several reassuring posts here, I decided to take the gamble and have no regrets. My main concern was cosmetic damage; but mine (as with others' here) was unmarked and as packaged as new, and of course they come direct from Sony with their standard 1 year guarantee. The fact that these graded models have been recently re-inspected and calibrated by Sony engineers should mean that you are in fact less likely to get a troublesome model than by buying new.

    The PX2 only has one viewing mode: 100Hz digital plus. The PS2 has DRC-50, DRC-100 and plain 100Hz. DRC-50 quadruples the image resolution and gives stunning, film-like results. None of these 3 modes exhibit any kind of processing artifacts that plague other 100Hz sets as the processor employed can clearly keep up with any image thrown at it.

    Another feature I forgot to mention is the service menu option to switch on MPEG noise reduction. I find this invaluable for clearing up blockiness and mosquito noise found in poor Freeview broadcasts without adversely affecting image detail.

    The ability to use the PS2 as a centre speaker was actually a major selling point for me as finding a convenient parking space for an external centre is difficult with RPTVs. I ditched my previous Mission centre with no discernable loss of sound quality; in fact I think dialogue is actually clearer through the PS2's speakers. I guess it depends on the quality of your existing centre, although my front Dynaudio Audience 50s and REL Strata sub are not embarrassed by this company.

    Granted, Picture and Picture is a bit of a gimick. But it's handy for keeping a eye on sports when there are a couple of things on at the same time. Case in point was the climax to last season's SPL race where both the Celtic and Rangers games were shown simultaneously on BBC1 and BBC2. You can zoom either of the images up or down and even listen to the other programme through the headphone socket.

    It's a difficult decision, but I firmly believe the PS2 is a superior tv. The only thing letting it down is the single RGB capable scart as opposed to the PX2's two. Tosh owners will point to the lack of component inputs (and prog scan capabilities), but I find it hard to imagine that I could beat this tv on looks and image quality or size for the money. Those extra 2 inches over a 42 do make a difference. In my opinion, this tv is only surpassed by high-end Panasonic or Pioneer plasmas, but even then you sacrifice connectivity and other conveniences, and of course they cost much more £££.

    Convinced yet? :)
     
  5. kron

    kron
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    I am now....i've just ordered :clap: delivery by friday :clap:

    That's a very good idea ,have to try that .My centre's a Paradigm cc-170 no way that's going on top of the tv.

    Not a problem for me as i have a pioneer dv-350 - no prog scan or component and i use one of those lurverly RGB switch box's from argos @9.99 lol ,no loss of quality through it as far as i can see.

    Can't wait now, went to comet before i made my mind up to view the PX2...impresssed even with their crappy feeds
    Glad i'm getting the PS2 now though thanks for all your help .Be prepared to be bombarded with questions about the service menu :laugh:
     
  6. scooby do

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    Kron make sure the first thing you do with the set is turn the contrast down to just above quarter. Next set the set to DRC 50 many people get confused and think DRC 100 is the best mode but you should find that DRC 50 will remove all scan lines.
     
  7. bobones

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    Contrast set to a quarter? I would think that that would give quite a dull looking image, especially in daylight. I calibrated mine with Avia and I have contrast at around 65%, although I could go as low as 50%. IMO whites should look white (not grey), but not so much that they hurt your eyes (or the screen!). I haven't experienced (and I don't worry) about screen burn with this contrast setting at all. BTW, The THX optimizer is also useful for calibrating these sets if you don't have Avia.

    Brightness for me is around 45-55%. Avia suggests that I should set it at the of higher these values, although I like blacks to look really black and tend to leave it just under 50%. Depends on ambient light too. THX optimizer suggests a lower value than Avia.

    Colour calibration was the strangest, with Avia suggesting a much higher value than I would have selected by eye. I have left it quite high at around 60% as per Avia, but anything down to around 40 looks good. Avia also demonstrated that the colour decoder was very accurate, i.e. little or no red push (or green or blue for that matter).

    If you use the analogue tuner, you might find that the picture looks too dark with colours too saturated after calibrating it with a dvd or digital broadcast.

    Sharpness shouldn't be turned right down on RPTVs and I find a value of 25%-40% looks good. If you don't use MPEG noise reduction, you may want to lower sharpness even further to reduce visible artefacts from poor quality digital broadcasts. I'd recommend turning it on though as it doesn't seem to adversely affect high quality images such as those from DVD, and detail definitely suffers if sharpness is too low. Too much and the image can start to look grainy.

    I agree that DRC50 is the best all round mode; however there is more flicker than with the 100Hz modes. I really only notice the flicker with bright expanses on the screen and comparing the modes one after the other, so I leave it on DRC-50 all the time.

    It's definitely worth checking geometry/convergence using the projector engine in the service menu as you might find it a bit out in the corners and edges if you only use the auto convergence. Mine was pretty good out of the box, it has to be said. If Sky Sports News (lots of straight lines and corner details) doesn't look spot-on you can generally fix it here. Beware that you need to do the convergence for each picture mode (Wide, Smart, 4:3 etc), each DRC mode (100, 50, off) and each of NTSC and PAL. In saying that, only the ones you use most need to be done. (eg PAL, Wide, Smart, DRC-50).

    Other options to play with are the VM-level in the service menu. I don't agree that VM set to zero gives the best image: detail definitely suffers (for example, the text on the menu in the resturant scene in Monsters Inc is more readable with higher VM levels).

    Another tip is to assign channel numbers to your AV inputs so they can be accessed easily and used with the PAP functions.

    When I first got the set, I played around with the settings incessantly. However, 5 months down the line I hardly touch them at all and just get on with enjoying the fantastic images this set produces. I hope Kron is as happy with his set, or I'm in trouble!
     
  8. kron

    kron
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    ahhh nothing like a good tweak :devil:
    /me dusts off Avia to await the arrival of new rptv. The first thing i will do or maybe the second(might have a cupa first) is turn the contrast down...screen burn= :nono:

    bobones ,i'm sure i'll be happy with it from what i've read here on the forums it sounds fantastic:smashin:
     
  9. scooby do

    scooby do
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    My Kp44 is definately under half for contrast and was perfectly viewable on a brightday. I have even turned it down recently as I am having a rear extension put on the house and the light level in the room where the set is is now darker. Glad to see you have Avia as it is really essential to get the best out of the sets. Bobones have you managed to fix overscan? I also have a blue tinge to the top of the set that can be adjusted out with convergence but drifts back due to vibration from 3 year old son jumping around all over the place. And also when the screen is auto switching between widescreen and smart there is a blue squiggle sometimes diplayed on the screen at the top left while the set is sorting itself out
     
  10. bobones

    bobones
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    Scoobs, just had a check with the overscan pattern in Avia and mine is around 4-5% all around the screen. I don't think I can get it much lower without adversely affecting the geometry. I have also used the RGB centering to move the everything to the left so that the league tables in Sky Sports News (right side) fit on the screen in smart mode.

    I don't have the blue squiggle you describe and I've managed to adjust convergence on all modes to my satisfaction. The convergence on mine doesn't seem to drift even though I do a fair bit of jumping around my living rooom myself!
     
  11. scooby do

    scooby do
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    Here is a jpeg of my PS2 in action, picture taken from Sky last night slightly blurred as no freeze frame facility on Sky digital. I will follow up with one from DVD source
     

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  12. scooby do

    scooby do
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    Here is a picture of a DVD that has been frozen still looks blurred (not like that in real life). Picture was taken at just over 1 foot away. Notice the lack of scan lines and pixels that the DRC 50 gives.
     

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  13. scooby do

    scooby do
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    Kron, looking forward to getting your set? don't forget to post here with your findings. Also if using with a AV amp don't forget the headphone socket is your control over the line level out of the rear audio connectors. Also the attenuate on the individual channels can be quite important for getting rid of any lines present on analogue reception if you live in a strong signal area.
     
  14. kron

    kron
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    Hi scooby do, had a call from rw the other day informing me that the set that was going to be dispatched to me for today was badly scratched so they are going to let me know when they have more stock(if any) as that was the last ps2 they had :(

    Thanks for the tips ,if i ever get one they'll come in handy :)
     
  15. bobones

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    Bummer kron. At least they didn't try to palm you off with a dud. I doubt they'll get more stock, so what's your plans now? One of the new toshes or a PX2 perhaps?
     
  16. nathan_silly

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    The Toshiba 51" RP's are available for a very good price, and they're PAL & NTSC progressive as well.
     
  17. kron

    kron
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    I did ask them to check it over for me and let me know if there was anything but very minor damage .They were quick to tell me ,which is good :)

    Not sure what to go for now but more than likely a px2 or a tosh.
     
  18. kron

    kron
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    I think 44" is the limit for size room it's going in. I am going to have a look at the new toshiba's though as i've heard some good things about toshiba rptv's in general.
     
  19. nathan_silly

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    Measure out the cabinet size and see just how big you can go. :)

    btw, the Toshiba RP's have Component inputs, which the Sony's lack. That with PAL & NTSC progressive I think edges the Toshibas out in front.
     
  20. kron

    kron
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    Although i don't yet own a prog scan capable player at the moment...i can see myself upgrading should i ever get a tosh.

    I just got off the phone to robert whyte ,it seems they are expecting stock in 10 days, where do they get them from :confused:
     
  21. nathan_silly

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    I don't know the specs on the new Toshiba RP's.. but the TV itself (could) de-interlace any signal that's given to the TV. You might not need a Progressive Scan DVD player, although a high quality progressive scan DVD player will probably have a better de-interlacer.

    IMO I would not buy a graded RP set- there are many parts inside a RP that could affect picture quality if they were sub-standard in some way; and expensive to replace. For example scrathed lens, scratched mirror, discoloured CRT's, screen that fails optical test etc.
     
  22. kron

    kron
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    These were my concerns at first but having read through all the post's i could find on the matter i have been assured that these things are what the sony engineers will look at and put right.
     
  23. quadmad

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    I was checking out a PX2 in curry's the other day and I noticed on long pan football shots the players legs seen very fuzzy !
    Any explanation or is this the processing ?

    The new 42 inch Tosh did not show this effect and was showing the same live footage
     
  24. ayubars

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    HI there,
    Got mine delivered from COmet yesterday. It's the kp44px2u. Is it worth getting an extended guarantee?
     

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