Got Lumagen, do I need a new DVD player???

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by rscott4563, Dec 18, 2003.

  1. rscott4563

    rscott4563
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2003
    Messages:
    1,054
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Ratings:
    +1
    Having just bought a Lumagen Vision and in the process of looking for a suitable 50" plasma, I now come to the issue of my DVD player, I've currently got a Denon 2800MKII and it is finally working properly with the latest firmware.

    My question is with the Lumagen Vision am I better running the 2800MKII interlaced (how good is it running interlaced?) and letting the Lumagen do the de-interlacing (is the Lumagen better than the Denon at the de-interlacing).

    Would I benefit from a better DVD player, my original idea before I got the Lumagen, was to get a Pio 504HDE with a 868i via HDMI, so would say a 868 or another similar priced DVD player (when I say similar I mean to the original 750 I paid when I first got the 2800MKII) using HDMI or DVI give me any sort of improvement over using my 2800MKII through the Lumagen?? :confused:

    Thanks in advance for all your help :D
    :hiya:
     
  2. rscott4563

    rscott4563
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2003
    Messages:
    1,054
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Ratings:
    +1
    I've just realised that the Lumagen will not accept a progressive input for scaling and so the issue of is the 2800MKII better at de-interlacing is pretty much redundant as, if I did use the Denon's progressive output I wouldn't be able to scale it up, so bit of a waste! :rolleyes:

    So I suppose the only question is would a new DVD player for less then about 800 quid give any sort of improvement over my 2800MKII's interlaced output, taking into consideration I don't really care about DVD-A or SACD??


    :smashin:
     
  3. rscott4563

    rscott4563
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2003
    Messages:
    1,054
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Ratings:
    +1
    Hello anyone?? :boring:

    "Bump"
     
  4. pacemaker

    pacemaker
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2003
    Messages:
    565
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +17
    does your lumagen have sdi?
    if so then just get you denon modded and connect that way for the very best performance
     
  5. rscott4563

    rscott4563
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2003
    Messages:
    1,054
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Ratings:
    +1
    No sadly mines only the standard Vision, only the Vision Pro can have the SDI mod, so its definitely down to the quality of my DVD player that will ultimately effect the final quality, hence my question "can the 2800MKII be bettered in interlaced for around 800??"
     
  6. pacemaker

    pacemaker
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2003
    Messages:
    565
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +17
    sorry to go on but sdi really is best route
    dont own but have seen improvements it can make
    doubt if changing interlace signal will make much/any difference
    the money you would have to spend really wouldnt be worth it
    any chance of changing/upgrading lumegen for sdi model?
     
  7. zAndy1

    zAndy1
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2002
    Messages:
    21,866
    Products Owned:
    2
    Products Wanted:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    163
    Ratings:
    +8,296
    Why did you buy the lumagen? Shouldn't you have asked these sort of questions before buying it?! You could have bought a Denon DVD-A11 by the time you've paid for the lumagen and a half decent DVD player. I've only got my experience from Event II to draw upon but I thought the lumagen looked awful on the Pio 433MXE , would expect it was set up ok but it was really soft, PQ was not a patch on e.g. Theatertek on a HTPC and the HTPC is a damn sight cheaper! Wouldn't you have been better off just getting a DVI DVD player that could output 720p or do you need the lumagen for other sources?

    Andy.
     
  8. rscott4563

    rscott4563
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2003
    Messages:
    1,054
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Ratings:
    +1
    Well yeah thanks for the reply zAndy1, but really.. The question I'm asking isn't whats the Lumagen going to do? And is my 2800MKII crap, the Denon 2800MKII when working properly (which mine now is) is very much a decent DVD player, when bought around 14 months ago at 750 quid it was rated as one of the best for the money, my question was merely "is there a new DVD player that might improve on the performance for the same money (14 months on)??" One thought was of the Arcam's as they are meant to be very good picture wise and the interlaced picture quality is rated as being very good, whether it would be much better than my 2800MKII and worth the change is not clear, hence the question.

    The Lumagen itself is rated as one of the best de-interlacer/scalers available for upto twice its price (and I got it for a lot less than its actual price, so in my case upto 3x its price) and the flexibility and quality improvements it will give should be invaluable as it will take not only my DVD feed but also my NTL, Xbox, Tivo etc..

    With regards to a the Denon A11, I'm sure its going to be the dogs bol#$%ks but it wouldnt help much with any other inputs and even with DVD it wont be as flexible as the Lumagen.

    Well thats a pretty broad statement, normally when someone says eg... they have at least a couple of references, but just to say not as good as a HTPC is very much a sweeping comment. I'm sure most people would agree that with a digital display device than there isn't much available that could compete with a properly setup, well speced HTPC, and most people just dont want a PC in the living room (the missus would end up staring at a blank screen rather than have to use a computer just to watch TV or a DVD), as far as cost goes, I've looked into HTPC's a little and I certainly couldn't get one that could fill the role of a Lumagen (de-interlacing all sources, scaling upto HD 1080p, fitting under the TV, being silent etc..) for anywhere near 675 quid

    Well as far as I know there isnt a DVD player available that can de-interlace and scale with the quality that the Lumagen should (I know many people rate the Bravo type cheap far east players, but these have there own share of problems from what I've read and with the Panny DVI problems even more issues) for anywhere near the money the Lumagen would cost even new (1100 quid), and again obviously that doesnt help with other sources.

    Anyway thanks for your comments, they've made me think a bit more and I've found myself answering a few of my own questions.
    :smashin: :hiya: :D
     
  9. zAndy1

    zAndy1
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2002
    Messages:
    21,866
    Products Owned:
    2
    Products Wanted:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    163
    Ratings:
    +8,296
    Sorry if I offended you in any way, I'd had a few drinks when I posted that last night (after my works xmas party)!

    Cheers,
    Andy.
     
  10. rscott4563

    rscott4563
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2003
    Messages:
    1,054
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Ratings:
    +1
    No dont woryy about it, no offence taken, if anything your post just got me thinking myself, and my reply was very early this morn so I was probably coming across a bit sharp... :smashin: ;)
     
  11. rscott4563

    rscott4563
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2003
    Messages:
    1,054
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Ratings:
    +1
    Well with over 200 views and only a couple of replys and no real answers as to an alternative and better DVD player, I'll have to assume that my Denon 2800MKII is probably gonna be staying with me and can't really be bettered for what I need, and I've never said it was anything other than a very good player and only wondered if it could now be out done now. From doing a bit of research I think I've found that without going to say a TAG at around 3x my budget I wont really get any benefit from an upgrade...

    Oh well more money for the display and then the next inevitable upgrade...:rolleyes:
    :smashin:
     
  12. zAndy1

    zAndy1
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2002
    Messages:
    21,866
    Products Owned:
    2
    Products Wanted:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    163
    Ratings:
    +8,296
    You could always sell the Lumagen and the DVD player and buy a HTPC from e.g. Uvem, I think you'd find that would be a worthwhile and not very expensive upgrade. Sorry to keep on about it but honestly you can't beat a good HTPC (only trying to help honest!).

    Cheers,
    Andy.
     
  13. rscott4563

    rscott4563
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2003
    Messages:
    1,054
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Ratings:
    +1
    :laugh: And I always appreciate any and all help and advice given, thats why these forums are so good, there's always someone willing to help out. :smashin:

    But I've gotta say for the sake of the missus (not good with a PC) and for my general ease of use I really would prefer a non PC answer. I spend far too much time working with PC's and fiddling with them at home to want to have another one in the house, maybe something for the future??

    Also on the cost side, as I would want one that could not only give high quality DVD play back but also accept a lot of other inputs and take care of all of their de-interlacing and scaling, I'd probably need something along the lines of a Holo3D card and DScaler, and hence more cost and possible confusion..

    For now its going to be the Denon 2800MKII and all other sources (Tivo, NTL, Xbox) -> Denon 2802 (May need changin due to lipsync issues with the Lumagen & plasma) -> Lumagen Vision -> 50" plasma (probably Panny 6 or Pio 4)
    And I think I'll be a very happy man, for now that is until I move and decide to get myself a nice big PJ!! :D
    This bloody forum's gonna cost me a fortune with that upgraderitis it seems to be spreading around!! :rotfl: :rotfl:

    :hiya: :smashin:
     
  14. zAndy1

    zAndy1
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2002
    Messages:
    21,866
    Products Owned:
    2
    Products Wanted:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    163
    Ratings:
    +8,296
    Well with mine I put a DVD in and it plays (Theatertek). And using the ATI remote wonder I can remote control Theatertek from the sofa (next chapter etc) so it's pretty much identical to a standalone DVD player (except it's far better PQ). And I'm getting perfectly good results using a PB TV100 capture card (£30-£40) and using DScaler (free) which isn't complicated by any means. I'm sure Phil at Uvem will put your mind at ease regarding useability, it's really not that bad honest!

    Cheers,
    Andy.
     
  15. rscott4563

    rscott4563
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2003
    Messages:
    1,054
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Ratings:
    +1
    :laugh: :laugh: You on commision from UVEM and PC manufactures in general Andy?? :rotfl: ;)
    If not maybe you should be, you make a good argument :smashin:

    Well I already own the Denon and the Lumagen now so it would seem a bit daft to sell them off in favour of any other option until I've given them a good go and had a chance to compare them to the alternatives.

    When I get the plasma I'll wheel my beast sized games PC in to the lounge and try it out for DVD and do a bit of a comparison (its got a Radeon9700pro,P4 2.8GHz, just sounds like a hairdrier n is the size of a filing cabinet!:eek: ) to see if the improvement would be worth a big change around, and no I couldn't just use my games PC as a movie PC, firstly its too loud (yeah could be fixed by fitting passive heat pipes to Radeon and by changing the PSU for a silent one, would cost me though), its too big (yeah could get a new case, but what a waste of my luvly Lian-Li case!), but most importantly it already has a very important job, it plays my computer games.... :smashin:
     
  16. pacemaker

    pacemaker
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2003
    Messages:
    565
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +17
    hi guys been checking this thread with some interest
    i also have at moment a line doubler(iscan ultra) and using it with a z2 pioneer 656 and denon 2802
    its driving me nuts cos i cant decide on the pc route
    having tried my pc and iscan together i have to admit not to seeing any diference in pq( basic setup windvd5)
    cant get theatretek to work so cant comment on further improvements that could make
    dvd player is much easier and kids can use also iscan offers inputs for sky/freeview games console etc
    but then again pc offers hd recording games ,futureproof etc
    tough call eh!
    by the way i also notice very slight lipsync problems with iscan and would almost definately return it if i didnt know a unit is on the way that will allow multiple inputs ie: dvd , sky etc and indevidual audio delay for each so keep hold of the 2802 mate
     
  17. rscott4563

    rscott4563
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2003
    Messages:
    1,054
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Ratings:
    +1
    Do I take it your on about a seperate unit that will take each input in to it and then add varying delays before sending them back out to the amp?? So a big box with say 2 x digital coax, optical, stereo inputs and then 2 x digital coax, optical, stereo outputs but with the added user defined time delay??
     
  18. pacemaker

    pacemaker
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2003
    Messages:
    565
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +17
    yes that is correct
    dont know about analogue i/p though may be just digital
    should sell by the truckload eh?
     
  19. rscott4563

    rscott4563
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2003
    Messages:
    1,054
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Ratings:
    +1
    Any info on the company or the name of the product?

    Depending on cost I still might think of going for a 3803 or AX5i as an upgrade later.

    Well the Vision arrived this morning, damn this Christmas lark, now I've gotta wait till January before I can get my plasma and try it out :( when I do I'll post my findings of my PC vs the Lumagen setup.
     
  20. S H A D O

    S H A D O
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2001
    Messages:
    10,369
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Ratings:
    +1,737
  21. pacemaker

    pacemaker
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2003
    Messages:
    565
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +17
    hi Jase thanks for that
    looks very interesting
    if lives up to expectations will be an excellent alternative to htpc
    will be sending ultra back and waiting for more news
     
  22. lowrider

    lowrider
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2003
    Messages:
    676
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Riga, Latvia
    Ratings:
    +1
    The Faroudja player does all you need, including multiple inputs, but for a price... :eek:
     
  23. suzywong

    suzywong
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2003
    Messages:
    261
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    19
    Location:
    Southampton
    Ratings:
    +0
    Having just installed a plasma system, I find that the PQ from Sky varies from OK to poor depending upon channel. I read that this is all down to different channels having different bit rates (is this correct?).

    In any event will a scaler improve the PQ?

    Chris
     
  24. StooMonster

    StooMonster
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2002
    Messages:
    4,974
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +314
    The Lumagen scaler has the same deinterlacing chipset (Silicon Image SiI504) chipset as your DVD player.

    If you output interlaced from player to scaler, you will add an additional Digital to Analogue to Digital conversion stage that will reduce picture quality. You could have you player modded to send SDI signal to scaler, which is sort-of-what the MPEG2 decoder to SiI504 is already doing inside the player.

    Therefore the only benefit you would receive of SDIing player and going though scaler is using the up-scaling part of the hardware. i.e. to use the scaler to increase pixel resolution rather than a screen's internal upscaling chipset.

    Since it is widely aknoweldged that it's the deinterlacing chipset and not the scaling that has the largest impact on image quality, one would beg the question: why?

    I believe you would be very hard pushed to see any difference at all with your player SDI modded and running through Lumagen to a plasma than you would just running a progressive scan signal from your current player to a 50" plasma. Or running any player with digital signal output through the scaler compared to your current player.

    In fact, when auditioning deinterlacers / scalers for my 50" plasma screen it was apparent to all present that there was no visible difference between using a deinterlacer (with SiI504) and plasma's internal scaler chipet versus any tested scaler (with SiI504) either running at native resolution or higher resolution (thereby using the screens scaler, as well, to scale down). *Lumagen suggest running at higher resolutions than the screen and then let the screen downscale to native pixel resolution, not because their scaler doesn't support the native resolutions of these displays (of course not), but because it has lower signal to noise ratio (allegedly).

    StooMonster
     

Share This Page

Loading...