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Got a KV32LS60 - dissapointed.

Discussion in 'Televisions' started by unreality, Dec 21, 2002.

  1. unreality

    unreality
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    The picture is so damn grainy it's not even funny, my old Mitsubishi 28" curved screen TV had a better picture. Through either Analogue TV or Sky Digital there is grain in the background of the picture and the colour isn't too good either, not to mention the artefacts. I do admit to having cheapish scart cables from Index, but there was NO grain on the Mitsubishi TV. I did see a post a while ago with the 'perfect' settings for this TV, I've tried searching for it but I can't find it, can anyone direct me to it so that I can try these settings and see how I go on? Also looking to buy some decent SCART Leads, how are the ones form miller brothers for £20? My mate mentioned them - don't know what they're called I'm afraid. I don't really want to spend over £20 on each cable, though.

    And I can STILL see flicker even though it is supposedly a 100Hz TV! I think

    The Sky and VCR share the same AV channel though I think we may have it set up wrong :rolleyes:

    But the set-up is the same as we had on the Mitsubishi.
     
  2. CarlosTheJackel

    CarlosTheJackel
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    My FX66 is shocking IF the quality of input is NOT great - sky on RGB is good - PS2 DVD is good - RGB DVD is brilliant - analogue TV is rubbish. I upgraded my scart cables too this helped a bit.
     
  3. Squirrel God

    Squirrel God
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    Flickery?
    - You'll still get line flicker (noticeable on menus mainly) because the LS60 is pure 100Hz so doesn't add anything to get rid of the scan line flicker.

    Grainy?
    - Turn the sharpness down, sit further back. It will be in the source material however.

    Artefacts?
    - There are NO artefacts on the LS60. There can't be - it's pure 100Hz. The only artefacts you will see will be those in the source material or those that naturally result from the limited resolution of CRTs/PAL. Again, sit further back.

    Analogue and Sky?
    - Lots of Sky stuff is low bitrate and therefore looks cack. Some Freeview stuff is the same. As for analogue, it's analogue - what do you expect? It depends on the quality of your aerial reception. Also, some TVs have better tuners than others. Sony analogue tuners tend to be among the best though. Turn the noise reduction on as well as turning sharpness down. Also, buy good quality coax cable. I can't remember what my analogue looks like because I unplugged it within a few days of getting my LS60 (don't need it, I have Freeview).

    Buy better Scart leads!!! Crap Scart leads = crap picture!! Ixos are good. There are other brands too. Do a search for Scart leads, you'll find loads of threads with advice. :)

    Make sure you're using RGB as well. Using S-Video or composite will give you worse quality pictures (particularly on this TV as the RGB is so good).

    If you're using the default settings for the TV, then of course it looks crap. Default settings always do. You can't have a moan about a TV until you've calibrated it and got it all set up as best you can. And don't go comparing with settings on other TVs either - they're different, they work differently, the settings will be different ;)

    Also, remember: the better the display device, the more it shows up faults in the source material, e.g. because it delivers sharper, clearer images ;) If you couldn't see faults in the source material on your old Mitsubishi TV, then it's because it wasn't delivering images that were sharp and clear enough for you to see them!

    Here's some settings for you to try but you have to experiment yourself as they are dependent on each particular set and the ambient light within the room etc.

    http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38311

    I tweak mine now and then as it's very hard to get a range of settings that compromise well with both PAL and NTSC. Worthwhile getting a calibration disk too like Ultimate DVD Platinum or Avia, or even just the THX Optimode stuff that's on some DVDs like T2, Toy Story, Cast Away, etc. The newer THX DVDs have a wider range of Optimode tests which are more in line with those on proper calibration disks. Remember, Optimode on UK R2 DVDs will help you calibrate for PAL, Optimode on R1 DVDs will help you calibrate for NTSC. You'll get slightly different results for each.
     
  4. jtorry

    jtorry
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    Squirrel God - I am thinking about getting this set. As I have had nothing but trouble with sets over the last year I am becoming paranoid that all teles are in fact crap. The major thing that i have a problem with is what i call smearing or perisitence where an image leaves a trail behind it. This has annoyed me on the last 3 teles i have bought. The other thing i have had a problem with is 100Hz processing. On a recent JVC set i bought, the movement of people looked horribly unatural with 100Hz and as the Sony doesn't allow for this to be turned off I am worried. Does the LS60 have either of these problems? Thanks.
     
  5. Squirrel God

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    No, it has neither of these problems! The "trailing" artefacts can occur sometimes on sets that include extra processing on top of the 100Hz, e.g. Philips Pixel+, Sony DRC. The LS60 is a "pure" 100Hz set which means that all it does is just double the frame rate, so artefacts such as these are non-existent.

    http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37326

    Bear in mind, however, that all TV sets have their pros and cons and nothing is 100% perfect. It's just a case of find the right TV to match your needs.

    Before I got my LS60, I sent back 3 other TV sets that I was really disappointed with. Happy with the LS60 now :)

    One other thing - there are reports on the forum from some members of incompatibilities between some Pioneer DVD players and the LS60. If you have a Pioneer DVD player, I strongly suggest you take it with you to a store when you get a demo of this TV. Check out any background image flashing on bright backgrounds in scenes when connected via RGB and/or S-Video.

    Hope that helps :)
     
  6. roadtorode

    roadtorode
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    Disappointments about 28LS60 ? Well, the fact that the audio out needs to be enabled via menus each time you turn it on is one thing. Also, I find SKY digital looks blocky if you have the settings wrong; use the movie preset to prove the point. A big improvement even though the picture is softened.

    I'm not sure under which circumstances the SHARPNESS control is enabled; seems to depend on input source, but as for picture quality with a good source (strong analogue or DVD) is very good, and actually sharpens up VCR very well too. Just a shame about SKY digital....
     
  7. Squirrel God

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    Yup, that's silly. Agree.

    Yeah, TVs do tend to look crap if you use the wrong settings ;) :p

    It's Sky mate. Blockiness is a side-effect of too much MPEG compression. Freeview looks great.

    I hate the Movie preset. Never use it. Use the personal preset which is calibrated.
    Enabled for everything except RGB. However, you can still adjust sharpness for RGB. Just switch to a non-RGB source, adjust the sharpness, then switch back to RGB. The settings are made active. :)
     
  8. jtorry

    jtorry
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    Squirrel God - Do you know how the KD-32/28 DX40 sets compare to the LS60's? I know the DX40's only have one RGB scart socket, but with a switch box that can be got around. I have read that the digital tuners in the sony sets are the best around so if the set has a good picture I am tempted to go for that. Do you know if it has any nasy extra digital processing?
     
  9. Squirrel God

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    I don't have any experience with the DX40, but don't recall many problems with them on the forum (better do a search to be 100% about this though - particularly ensure the TV is not affected by the "scrolling bars" issue!).

    They're a 50Hz set from what I recall, not 100Hz.

    Has 2 RGB sockets from the spec given on the Sony web site!

    http://212.241.227.79/pro_techspec....subCat=all&Ire=&CatID=1&sProdName=KD32DX40(S)

    Note that it's only 1 digital tuner and 1 analogue tuner - so you can't tape one digital channel and watch another unless you buy a second Freeview box. Not sure if there are any Freeview compatibility issues either - Martin Imber's the man to ask about that :)
     
  10. roadtorode

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    Squirrel God, I couldn't agree more that the movie preset is next to useless *EXCEPT* when watching an old movie (b&w or early colour) but I used it to prove to myself that some of the settings being wrong makes the poor SKY picture look even worse.

    Thanks for the info re: sharpness.
     
  11. karl.g

    karl.g
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    A good scart cable will definitely add something to the quality of picture, but it may be too subtle for the problems you have encountered. I upgraded from an Argos scart to a QED Squart AV 2110 and actually noticed an immediate improvement. However, I have a friend who works there and got it cheaper. I think these kind of cables cost around £50 in the shops. I was wondering whether an expensive DVD player makes any difference. I'm a bit sketchy about what Progressive scan on a player will do. Does anyone know if this helps NTSC discs less grainy?
     
  12. Squirrel God

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    Yes, generally - the better the DVD player, the better the image.

    Not really. Progressive scan displays all scan lines at once rather than displaying them interlaced (which displays the odd and even scan lines separately, in two separate fields). It does lead to a sharper, more vivid image - but if there's grain on the transfer, there's grain on the transfer.
     
  13. MartinImber

    MartinImber
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    Am I?????

    Ok Scart Assignments for Sony IDTVS AFAIK

    DX20
    DX30
    DS1
    S1 RGB in RGB DTTV Out
    S2 SVId/Comp in
    S3 Composite In/Out
    Recording Digital while watching an AV input is difficult but possible

    DS60
    S3 is also SVid in

    DX40
    S1 RGB In duno about out
    S2 SVId/Compo in Compo DTTV Out

    DX/NX100
    S2 is RGB in
    S3 is DX40 S2
    These models allow watching analogue while recording digital
     

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