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good sub for wharfedale xr-5000s

Savageman

Standard Member
I bought a pair of xr-5000s and a yamaha as-500 earlier this year to use at parties as they were one of the cheaper options i could find.

They worked great and were definitely load enough! so much so i half-blew a tweeter :thumbsdow i think that was clipping but i'm not too sure but its only at 50% volume now

i did notice though they were only hitting about 50-60Hz so i would like to buy an active sub for about £200 £250 to shake things up at 20-30Hz ;)

Anyone got any ideas of a sub that would blend well with the wharferdales?

p.s. i know what a crossover does but do i have to buy a seperate box for it or what?

Thanks alot :)
Savageman
 

PSM1

Distinguished Member
For the best value for money look at BK Electronics. With your budget you will only be able to get the Gemini II although if you can find a little more then you could get the XLS200. The sub will have a crossover built in so no need to buy a separate item.
 

Don Dadda

Distinguished Member
Any or most subs will blend with any speakers, just depends on how big you want it or how low you want it to go.

A separate box for a crossover is not needed unless called for as most have this built in. The subs suggested have it built in

For the budget, how about the following

- WHARFEDALE DIAMOND SW150 SUBWOOFER (BLACK) £170

There is also the BK Gemini MkII £215 but reckon the BK XLS200 would fair better for you but is over budget at £315

EDIT: PSM1 beat me to it (BK's)
 
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Savageman

Standard Member
Thanks for the replies chaps

the XLS200 looks very nice. 'Frequency Response at -6dB: 17Hz' is that -6db from the operating volume?. I can push the budget that far but I've got to justify spending the extra money. Can someone give me a roundup of the features that make it better than the gemini and why they are better. would be appreciated

Also does anyone know the drop off freq for the Gemini MkII becuase i can't seem to find it on the website
 
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Don Dadda

Distinguished Member
Yes, BK website is a bit sparse on the Gemini's info.

BK website does state it has a Variable cut off frequency 40Hz - 120Hz but whether that is a definite confirmation that its drop off is 40hz i'm not sure. Hopefully a owner can say for definite.

Other than the fact that the XLS200 is bigger, slightly different drive unit and has a lower frequency response i don't know what else is different.

Both are highly rated subs but It will depends on the room size which will determine which to go for. The Gemini may be too small to fill out the room you want it to go in to. I have the XLS200 in a room 5m x 4.5m which i believe to be around the average room size and it fills it just right for me.
 

dogfonos

Prominent Member
Have I got the wrong speaker? You have the Wharfedale Xarus xr-5000? An efficient speaker that's often described as 'a club in your living room'? And you have an 85 W/channel amp that you think may have been driven to clipping and damaged a tweeter yet you wish to add a subwoofer? I can't see how adding a subwoofer is the answer - yes, you'll get even more bass but it won't help save your tweeters.

They worked great and were definitely load enough! so much so i half-blew a tweeter
Blowing a tweeter (if that's what happened) indicates they didn't go loud enough for you.

I appreciate you use the system for parties, would these be in an aircraft hanger? Because under normal domestic party conditions, the gear you've chosen should be ideal. Assuming your amp and speakers are working correctly and you really need collosal sound levels, my suggestion would be to look at professional public address (PA) speakers that are designed for such use/abuse:

Auditorium 2 212C Passive 12" PA Speaker at Studiospares

Sold as singles so not cheap. I know these PA speakers won't give any extra bass compared with your xr-5000 but they'll safely go to higher levels and you're unlikley to be able to damage them. Could add a pro sub later if still required and when funds allow.

By the way, what have you done about the dodgy tweeter (or did it recover - I seem to remember that one of the big Wharfedales had 'reduced power' type tweeter protection which recovered when power was reduced or removed).
 

Savageman

Standard Member
Hi Dogfonus,
The tweeter issue and the subwoofer are not related, I'm calling up the company I bought them from soon, to get it repaired (should of done ages ago but didn't get round to it) I just wanted a subwoofer to add some extension and a kick in the chest at parties.

When i was looking into buying some speakers PAs had the punch I needed but I didn't want to buy them because they're big and ugly and the last time I heard a set the clarity was pretty poor. As for most of the hi-fi speakers I could find they had good reviews of sound quality but were expensive and didn't look like they could put out the sound that i wanted. That's why I thought the xr-5000s were a good in between.

As for the tweeter, I tested it after the party (powered off before) that's when I discovered one of the tweeters wasn't in very good shape (i will test again tomorrow to be sure) . I was thinking of just replacing the tweeter and trying to not turn it up as loud but i guess that isn't the best plan as the volume always magically gets turned up somehow.

Do you have any suggestions? (whilst keeping the kit i already have)

Thanks
Savageman
 

Savageman

Standard Member
Just checked again and there's definatley something wrong. when there is nothing playing if you listen closely to the working tweeter there is some white noise and the broken one has the same but at a lot less volume. when you start playing music the working one plays the tune like normal and the other just has white noise as before.
 

PSM1

Distinguished Member
A sub is going to do nothing to protect your speakers. If you can not stop people turing the volume up to levels which damage the speakers then you are going to be forever fixing them. A sub will give you more bass but will not protect your other speakers from getting damaged. also if the volume gets turned up on the sub too then you could end up damaging that too. Hope you live miles from anyone since if you are cranking those up enough to damge them then they are going to be stupidly loud which can not be fun for any neighbours.
 

Savageman

Standard Member
Yes i know it won't. I never thought adding a subwoofer would fix it or protect the other speakers in any way, that's a whole different problem. This thread was supposed to be about subwoofer suggestions not the tweeter and has gone off topic. I should of never mentioned the tweeter in the first place...
 
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Hugh9191

Established Member
I know you said the tweeter thing is unrelated but it sounds like you're driving your speakers far too much if you've blown a tweeter. I reckon you'd be much better off spending the money on a set of PA speakers instead which will take the beating you're giving them.
 

Savageman

Standard Member
I get your point and maybe i could move to that in the future but i simply don't have the budget or the space at the moment to get a couple of PAs. Maybe it was a faulty tweeter, i don't know, but what would be good is some kind of limiting device that i could use in the meantime after i have the replacement. I've heard of re-settable fuses on tweeters and i would definitively need something fool proof like that. Do you know of any other methods?
 

Hugh9191

Established Member
Yeah, you could get a new amp such as Behringer iNuke NU1000DSP Amplifier - Thomann UK Cyberstore.

This is a PA amp and is very ovepowered for your speakers so you'd have to be careful but it does feature a limiter which you could set up to kick in before your speakers started to get damaged. Also as it is a PA amp it would be a good way to start transitioning over to PA gear in the future.

It has loads of features such as a crossover so you could run a passive PA sub off it such as this one Behringer VP1800 S - Thomann UK Cyberstore
 

Hugh9191

Established Member
You're not bi-amping at the moment anyway as the Yamaha only has 1 amp, it just has 2 sets of speaker outs meaning you can hook 2 different sets to the same amp, you're doing the same thing by doing this as you are by hooking both into the same set of terminals. Something you could do with the iNuke.
 

Savageman

Standard Member
oh, my bad, i always thought i was bi-amping :( guess i'm just bi-wiring. I heard a bit of a difference, it just seemed to define the bass against the treble a bit more.
 

dogfonos

Prominent Member
This thread was supposed to be about subwoofer suggestions not the tweeter and has gone off topic. I should of never mentioned the tweeter in the first place...

I can understand your frustration but really some of us think that adding a sub may not be the solution to your problems.

PSM1 is right about the prospect of the sub being abused in the way your Wharefdales may have been. Hugh9191's suggestion of working towards a system that would suit you better will actually save you money in the long run by preventing you from heading down a dead-end road and ending up with something that may not be the full answer (i.e. xr-5000 + sub).

According to everything I've read (I've not heard them), these xr-5000 speakers have enough bass impact, bass extension and volume for domestic parties – let's face it, people aren't buying these for their midrange transparency and spatial imagery! See this earlier thread. Note the specs on bass extension - should be more extended than your original post suggests. In room, this speaker will likely reproduce a decent level of bass down to around 30Hz:

http://www.avforums.com/forums/speakers/983260-wharfedale-xarus-5000-pair-155-a.html

I don't know what music you tend to play when you party but if it's the usual clubby house type stuff and pop, then there often isn't much sub 40Hz bass present. As I understand it, rythymn-driving bass is usually in the 40 to 80Hz range, which is what the xr-5000 was designed for. Perhaps you want more 40 - 80Hz bass rather than out-and-out extension? I guess a subwoofer would still oblige. If you go down the subwoofer route, earlier posters have made recommendations.

From afar, we can't be certain, but if the Wharfedales need to be driven too hard to get the sound you require, then PA is the way to go. PA gear is more robust and often has in-built protections that significantly reduce, but cannot entirely eliminate, the chance of equipment damage. And these days, decent PA speakers will sound at least as good as your xr-5000s.

Speaker protection devices:
http://www.stagebeat.co.uk/Monacor-DSP-1-Speaker-Protection-122850-100388?source=froogle#longDesc

Not sure if suitable. You'd need to check out the power handling of the tweeter only (ask Wharfedale?) and if it's 20W or more (often they're less), this may do the trick but one of these would need to be wired to each individual tweeter.

D-fend

This looks to be the dog's. Don't know of any retail outlets that sell it and no idea of cost.

Typical £10 – 20 protection devices simply block DC from entering your speakers – they won't stop overdriving and clipping.

Probably cheaper to buy a cage and put the amp in it - or maybe your guests?

Good luck whatever you do.
 
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Savageman

Standard Member
I can understand your frustration but really some of us think that adding a sub may not be the solution to your problems.
yes i do know it will not fix any overdrive problems, as i have mentioned before.
PSM1 is right about the prospect of the sub being abused in the way your Wharefdales may have been. Hugh9191's suggestion of working towards a system that would suit you better will actually save you money in the long run by preventing you from heading down a dead-end road and ending up with something that may not be the full answer (i.e. xr-5000 + sub).
i was thinking of saving up fro the XXLS400 instead so i can turn down rather than up. XXLS400

According to everything I've read (I've not heard them), these xr-5000 speakers have enough bass impact, bass extension and volume for domestic parties – let’s face it, people aren’t buying these for their midrange transparency and spatial imagery! See this earlier thread. Note the specs on bass extension - should be more extended than your original post suggests. In room, this speaker will likely reproduce a decent level of bass down to around 30Hz:
This is incorrect. I have tested with this:

and they start to drop off around 70hz and is barable till about 55hz but there's nothing at 40hz

I don't know what music you tend to play when you party but if it's the usual clubby house type stuff and pop, then there often isn't much sub 40Hz bass present. As I understand it, rythymn-driving bass is usually in the 40 to 80Hz range, which is what the xr-5000 was designed for. Perhaps you want more 40 - 80Hz bass rather than out-and-out extension? I guess a subwoofer would still oblige. If you go down the subwoofer route, earlier posters have made recommendations.
its sorta dance/drum&bass/dubstep but yeah i just need a boost in that range from what i said before

From afar, we can't be certain, but if the Wharfedales need to be driven too hard to get the sound you require, then PA is the way to go. PA gear is more robust and often has in-built protections that significantly reduce, but cannot entirely eliminate, the chance of equipment damage. And these days, decent PA speakers will sound at least as good as your xr-5000s.
i'm not totally sure how the tweeter got broken, could of been clipping but i didn't hear any, it was loud but not deafening. i'm confused why one tweeter is dead and the other is fine, one speaker nearly fell over but i saved it, possibly i jabbed the tweeter on the way back up but it is protected with a two bar grill. Also some one pushed the balance over at at one point onto one speaker. This probably wouldn't of done anything though.

Anyway, i know i need a fool proof solution. whether that's protecting the wharfedales or buying expensive PAs (which they'll have to be if i want quality as well as power) i might get some polyswitches on the tweeters.

Thanks for everyone's input
Savageman
 

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