Good speakers for Bass

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Speakers' started by mattski73, Aug 5, 2013.

  1. mattski73

    mattski73
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2006
    Messages:
    386
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +28
    Because I've been out of the game for well over a decade, I'm looking for suggestions for bookshelf/stand mount speakers with a decent slab of bass. No Floor standing speakers!

    1) £150 - 200

    2) £200 - 250
     
  2. BlueWizard

    BlueWizard
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2007
    Messages:
    22,349
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +4,211
    You are making a request with counter purposes. Small speaker do not equal big bass. However, decent size bookshelf speaker can equal good bass ... all things considered.

    Next do you care if the speakers sound like crap as long as the bass is intense? I hope not, but if that is what you want, we can probably accommodate. But there are much higher quality speakers that sound great and have a decent amount of bass ... all things considered.

    AVBristol is still listing the previous Diamond 10 series speaker, at close to your price range -

    Wharfedale Diamond 10.1 Bookshelf Speakers

    Wharfedale Diamond 10.2 Bookshelf Speakers

    Wharfedale Diamond 121 Bookshelf Speakers

    Wharfedale Diamond 122 Bookshelf Speakers

    If you want some serious speaker at a very fair price, consider the Diamond 10.2 with 6.5" bass drivers and a low end of 40hz (-6dB).

    You said no floorstanding, but these are a pretty good bargain -

    Wharfedale Diamond 10.4 Floorstanding Speakers

    Above your budget, but a pretty big speaker with pretty solid bass, as well as nice clarity would be these -

    Wharfedale Diamond 10.6 Floorstanding Speakers

    The Monitor Audio Bronze BX have a reputation of being a bit bright, though not in a bad way, but they also have deeper than average bass response -

    Superfi - MONITOR AUDIO BRONZE BX1 SPEAKERS (PAIR)

    Superfi - MONITOR AUDIO BRONZE BX2 SPEAKERS (PAIR)

    The BX1 has a rated response of 55hz at -3dB, giving it an estimated 48hz to 50hz at -6dB. The BX2 has a rated response of 42hz at -3db, giving it an estimated 35hz to 37hz at -6dB.

    Though in a slightly different vein, here is something worth considering -

    Superfi - WHARFEDALE DIAMOND 9.1 SPEAKERS & SW150 SUBWOOFER 2.1 SPEAKER PACKAGE

    Two Diamond 9.1 (5") with a Subwoofer right in your price range.

    That is about the best you will find easily within your price range. All highly regarded speakers.

    Steve/bluewizard
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2013
  3. martin 39

    martin 39
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2009
    Messages:
    634
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Ratings:
    +87
    Why not look for a second hand pair of b&w 602s3
     
  4. Darkmatter21

    Darkmatter21
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2010
    Messages:
    1,396
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Rugby
    Ratings:
    +80
    I would try and source some monitor audio rx2 , bit over budget but they deliver very impressive bass. I wouldn't exactly call them small.... The alternative is tobup your budget and get a subwoofer and small/cheaper speakers.
     
  5. PSM1

    PSM1
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2008
    Messages:
    26,283
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +5,440
    Where do you intend to mount the speakers?Since if using a stand (how they should be mounted for the best sound) then they will take up a similar space as a floorstander which would mean that these would become an option. If wall mounting on brackets you would need to pick your speaker carefully since some speakers do not like being near a wall and the bass can become very boomy. If putting on a cabinet or shelf then this is far from ideal as it will interact with the it and cause sound issues too.
     
  6. Don Dadda

    Don Dadda
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2007
    Messages:
    5,660
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +728
    I suppose it depends on your definition of 'decent slab of bass' and the amp driving the speakers.

    I 2nd the Wharfedale Diamonds 10.2

    My pair are driven by a Marantz PM7001 ki stereo amp. Though it has tone controls which would obviously help with more bass if needed, they are rarely pass '0'.
    The missus has been rocking the house all day Sunday and every Sunday with them when cooking.

    They are rear ported so up against a wall is not ideal as PSM1 mentioned. If on a cabinet/shelf, blu tac can help to keep them stable and it also can help with absorbing some of the vibrations and help prevent the cabinet/shelf become an wanted part of the speakers, but Foam isolation mats like the MoPAD Monitor Isolation Pads will do a much better job.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2013
  7. mattski73

    mattski73
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2006
    Messages:
    386
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +28
    Thanks for all respsnses so far. I can honestly say in all my time on home audio I only once heard a pair of Wharfadale speakers and that was in some hairdressers shop or something, but this was many, many moons ago. I've not actually sat down and listened to Wharfdale speakers seriously.


    For various reasons, I usually design and build my own stuff as well as designing (subwoofer and speakers for others) using components from, the likes of Morel, Vifa, Peerless and ScanSpeak in particular. I was looking at designing for a set of Audio Technology C-Quenze drivers (AudioTechnology by Skaaning), but for one reason or another I'm unable to complete the project. I know speaker design (novice level) but I don't know the consumer market at all. Again, for now, with no workshop or tools, I've kind of given up, and I'm having to go back to consumer products, hence the need for some advice and direction.

    I'm used to working with T/S parameters and various software, and so I find that 'Specs' are somewhat 'Pie in the sky', so I was looking for advice from owners with real life experience, rather than trusting spec sheets.

    For now I've finally decided to pick up an Arcam Alpha 7 amp to get me started, which should be on its way. I've been hunting around the usual suspects Mission, B&W, MA, although Wharfdale 10.1 seem to come up often, but as suggested the 10.2 with the 6.5" woofer might be interesting.

    Just out of interest, are there any speakers with larger woofers?

    I also had my eye on the MONITOR AUDIO BX2.

    My history includes B&W 302, Mission M71 and Tannoy speakers for which I can't remember the name of. I once had a good experience with Epos (overall sound not just bass) speakers, although the Epos ELS 8 got slated on Whathifi, but they going for a song at the moment. I've also owned a pair of Dynaudio MC15 in my time, although they had to go when the radiator on my car blew. Cars!!!

    I have also owned a few REL subwoofers in my time, and so I was looking on ebay to see if there are any bargains to be had. KEF seem to have a few reliability issue with their subs. But for now, I want to concentrate on squeezing a lot of bass out of not much space or a small a footprint as possible.

    With the knowledge I've picked up, I doubt anything at this level will challenge the system/speakers I had in mind. However because of my circumstances, I'm just going with the flow. I currently have a set of Morel 6.5" drivers and tweeters in an open baffle design which I quite enjoyed. But for now I've decided to leave the 'Self build' arena and return to the consumer side of things. There are some serious bargains to be had!


    I was looking at the Wharfdale 10.3's last night. I want to stick to Bookshelf speakers for now, possibly!!

    Although I did have something like this in mind for a future project (listen with headphones). But for now, without the resources to build for myself, i'm going the consumer audio route.

     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2013
  8. mattski73

    mattski73
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2006
    Messages:
    386
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +28
    Update:

    I can't find a pair of Wharfdale 10.2's for love nor money
     
  9. Don Dadda

    Don Dadda
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2007
    Messages:
    5,660
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +728
  10. mattski73

    mattski73
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2006
    Messages:
    386
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +28
    Thanks for that. I was hoping to get some from ebay on a cheeky discount:D


    Update:

    Just come off the phone to Jake @ AVBristol, and the 10.2's are discontinued and they have none in stock:( But Jake advised I pop into Bristol and demo some offerings, which might be a good way to go. Until then I'm still up for any suggestions.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2013
  11. TheNameIsJambo

    TheNameIsJambo
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2011
    Messages:
    6,141
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Fife
    Ratings:
    +1,696
    I bought a set of Wharfedale 122s.. And they can unleash a serious amount of bass. My Mrs. was actually moaning at me to turn the bass down one night! The answer was no though! :smashin:

    I'd recommend you give them a bash. They're seriously good.

    Their 'little brother', the Diamond 121, have won an award at WhatHiFi! :)
     
  12. mattski73

    mattski73
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2006
    Messages:
    386
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +28
    Jake said m,uch the same. However, he was also complementary of the 10.1's and even the 9.1's. I wonder what happened to the 10.2's, that they're not available anymore? Short production run? Seems like the 10.1's have been king pin for a while.
     
  13. BlueWizard

    BlueWizard
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2007
    Messages:
    22,349
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +4,211
    The Diamond 10 series has been replaced by the Diamond 100 series. The Diamond 10 are discontinued.

    I ran a quick search of Google-UK Shopping and this is what I came up with -

    Wharfedale Diamond 10.2 Speaker

    Wharfedale Diamond 10.2 Speaker

    Wharfedale Diamond 10.2 Speaker

    Other than AV Bristol, StoneAudio was the only other source, and at a higher price. If you are going to pay £255/pr, you might as well consider the Diamond 122 at £279/pr.

    The only complaint about the Diamond 122 is that the grill covers on the tweeter was less than ideal. It is recommended that you play with the grill covers OFF.

    Other than that, the reviews on the Diamond 100 series have been pretty positive.

    One last note, Wharfedale tend to have a relatively long break-in period; typically about 100 hours. And I found that to hold true with my Diamond 9.6 speakers. Initially the bass was on the light side, but once the speaker gained a bit over 100 hours, the bass mellowed nicely, and now after many 100's of hours, the bass is very nice.

    This might help -

    Wharfedale Diamond 122 Speakers Review by AV...


    Note their comments specifically on the bass.


    Steve/bluewizard
     
  14. TheNameIsJambo

    TheNameIsJambo
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2011
    Messages:
    6,141
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Fife
    Ratings:
    +1,696
    I can concur with the comments about the tweeter grilles. I highly recommend leaving the grilles off. It makes the sound slightly muffled.

    These speakers boast fantastic clarity (but not fatiguing), and the tweeter is hampered by that grille. The difference isn't night-and-day, but you definitely notice a bit more volume/clarity with it removed.

    The 122 can most definitely be a bass cannon. When you first fire them up the bass is virtually non-existent, they're very light. But as usage goes on the bass begins to warm up a little. I've only put a few days on mine and there's definitely a difference in the amount of bass they produce. I have turned the bass up a little on these (to get a more cinematic feel in movies), and these things can handle it without breaking a sweat. The bass doesn't 'boom' like a sub-does, but they can rumble the house if you want them to!

    There are two reviews from AVLand, one for the Diamond 121 and Diamond 122. In the review, he basically says, "Get the 122." And like Steve said, he specifically mentions how good the bass is.

    The bass digs deep, as hell :smashin:
     
  15. dogfonos

    dogfonos
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2011
    Messages:
    1,805
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings:
    +300
    An alternative approach...

    Return the Arcam amp and put that money, together with the speaker budget, towards these 'B' stock items:

    KRK Rokit RP8 G2 / Rokit 8 G2 Powered Monitors - whybuynew.co.uk

    Are there any traditional hifi amp + speaker combinations that can match these active monitors for audio quality, bass extension (-1.5dB @ 45Hz) and impact at £324? Can't say conclusively because I've never done the comparison but I suspect not.

    Bass extension is all very well but without sufficient amp power, deep bass is a bit anaemic. The KRK RP8 G2 have amplifiers totalling 90W/channel - and they power the drive units directly so can make the most of that power (i.e. the amps aren't driving passive crossovers). Depending how you intend to use them, they might not suit in terms of ergonomics and connectivity though.

    You mention building several speakers in the past - as have I but I only managed to get the sound I was after from a DIY three-way active system. Well-designed actives really do sound better than passive system equivalents, IMO.
     
  16. mattski73

    mattski73
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2006
    Messages:
    386
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +28
    Its a matter of getting what you want from whatever components you want, that's why I enjoy(ed) building myself. Personally I enjoy point source speakers to get away from the complexity of two and three way set ups, but that's just me! I prefer to keep it simple to avoid phase and group delay issues. Swings and roundabouts. There's no free lunch with any design.


    I saw the 122 YouTube clip from AVland about a week ago.

    Tweeter Grill:

    As far as I can see, they're not strictly tweeters, but it looks like Wharfdale have gone for a Midbass and Fullrange speaker set up, which is what i had in mind for an open baffle design. Something like this

    Alpine SPS-517 – Open Baffle Speakers | surfandsound - my hobby site simply to document some of my work and artwork, so don't take it seriously.

    I think, it'll be good to test the 10.1's (just on price alone) and 121's and 122's to see what the best move is.


    Stone Audio. I just remember back in the day reading a lot of negative comments about customer service. This was around 10-12 years ago!
     
  17. Don Dadda

    Don Dadda
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2007
    Messages:
    5,660
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +728

    Hey Jambo,

    Glad you like your new toys ;). The issue with the grills is not apparent on 10.2's so i can't say i've experienced that, but as said and you are discovering with the 122's, they worked better after a good few hours under their belt.

    You should put up a view of your thoughts on them on here. I don't think there is any of the 100's range as yet so you be the first - i think :thumbsup:.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2013
  18. BlueWizard

    BlueWizard
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2007
    Messages:
    22,349
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +4,211
    I think that is more a straight Dome Tweeter is something approximating a wave guide.

    Steve/bluewizard
     
  19. mattski73

    mattski73
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2006
    Messages:
    386
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +28
    I could be wrong, it has been known!:) Hands up, i've not read the marketing bumf yet.

    Treble Driver 25mm Soft Dome
    Crossover Frequency 2.3kHz

    Although they're still on the list, i'm favouring the price savings of the 10.1's and the Monitor Audio Bronze BX2.

    I guess i'm looking for something around the same size as the JBL TLX14 speakers ... my first love back in 1990. They were beasts! For the life of me, I can't find any speakers around the same dimensions.
     
  20. mattski73

    mattski73
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2006
    Messages:
    386
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +28
    I got the Mission MX-1's today. All I can say is that compared to my Open Baffle Morel set up, the Mission's are at best dull, muddy and lifeless. Morel aren't a shabby brand by any stretch of the imagination, but even with similarly price components (actually the Morel's speakers from my car), the Morel's far excel.

    One could say the Mission's bass is fuller and deeper, but with an open baffle design that's to be expected. But the OB bass is faster a more tuneful.

    But my fears have been (semi) confirmed. I think I'm going to have to find a way to finish the Morel project off.

    I'm sure i the realms of home audio and What Hifi these the 5 star Mission MX-1's are admirable speakers, but in reality they don't really hold a candle to what I've already got, and moving up to more expensive home audio speakers at present doesn't fill me with confidence.

    For now, I want to thank you all for your time and advice.
     
  21. Nick1881

    Nick1881
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2008
    Messages:
    1,513
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    Nuneaton
    Ratings:
    +231
    It's best not to listen to What HiFi reviews, I wouldn't have had much hope for £100 Mission speakers either. They rated Q-Acoustics very highly and when I tried them at home I was also disappointed, the suggestion of secondhand B&W 602 is a good idea, these have excellent bass with their 7" bass driver.
     
  22. mattski73

    mattski73
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2006
    Messages:
    386
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +28
    I suspected that after having designed and built my own, going back to 'off the shelf' gear would be somewhat of a back-step. I didn't realise how much of a back-step it would be. In terms of price, both the Morel and Mission set up are similar, but the performance isn't.

    Having limited resources now, I accepted that I'd have to go the home audio route. But after today I know I can't accept it! I'm going to have to borrow a friends garage and a few rudimentary tools. However building and pair of dipoles, what do you really need? Its a few slabs of MDF.



    I think I over estimated the home audio speaker market, even last night i was considering the likes of Canton, Heco and Dali. In comparison, at best I can only see that as an expensive side step.

    Having owned Mission in the past, I wasn't expecting audio nirvana, but I didn't expect things to be this bad.

    What Hifi is a whole other thread, that I'm sure could get very heated.

    I already have Morel tweeters, but I'm thinking of swapping the midbass over for a pair of Peerless SLS 830667 midbass units. However midbass is putting it politely. With an FS of 36, QTS of 0.54 (suited to and open baffle consideration) and xmax of 8.5mm (fairly generous but by no means the best) I'm sure I can produce the bass for my needs. and at only £48.75 each

    Peerless SLS 830667

    The thing is, a lot of brands use components from the likes of Vifa, Peerless, Scan Speak anyway. Jantzen produced drivers for Dynaudio at one time. Audio Technology for the likes of Sonus Faber.
     
  23. MTech535

    MTech535
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2012
    Messages:
    445
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Ratings:
    +32
    You might have had more success following some of the advice given.
     
  24. mattski73

    mattski73
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2006
    Messages:
    386
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +28


    If the price and speaker is the yard stick, I really can't see anything within £300 - 400 at least, touching my mock up OB speakers.

    I'm sure there are some gems out there, but at the same price point the performance difference is too big to ignore. Once bitten twice shy!

    It was worth a try. But I do thank you all for your help.
     
  25. BlueWizard

    BlueWizard
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2007
    Messages:
    22,349
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +4,211
    You seemed to have resolved the problem for now.

    Though it is a bit odd that you came home with a speaker that NO ONE recommended, and make no comment about auditioning the speakers that WERE recommended.

    Still it seems resolved for now, but as you are out and about in the world, give the Wharfedale Diamond and Monitor Audio Bronze a listen.

    Steve/bluewizard
     
  26. mattski73

    mattski73
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2006
    Messages:
    386
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +28
    I'm planning to give the Wharfdales 10.1 a go very soon. The Mission's where supposed to be a 'get me going' back into home audio, they were never going to be the last choice. However ... i'm not going to say that Mission in particular are a rubbish brand, but I just didn't expect the margin of difference to be sooooo big. It's colossal! And for speakers costing the same price but one designed for car audio use the other for home audio use, the difference is too hard to ignore.

    More and more car audio enthusiasts use home audio components in car. Maybe home audio enthusiasts should start using car audio components in the home!
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2013
  27. mattski73

    mattski73
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2006
    Messages:
    386
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +28

Share This Page

Loading...