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Golf R20

waring192

Well-known Member
Anyone else intrested in this? Been looking around and it sounds like it should be avaliable late this year.
 

eric pisch

Distinguished Member
Anyone else intrested in this? Been looking around and it sounds like it should be avaliable late this year.

i want one badly to replace my R32

with a DSG box ofc

loads of space, quality finish, 4wd, dsg box :smashin:, and finally easily tunable :thumbsup: oh and adjustable suspension settings

and you wont feel like a plum like you do in an evo or scooby

its win win win :cool: with 350bhp my perfect real world car


some great pics here

http://www.autoblog.com/gallery/frankfurt-2009-volkswagen-golf-r20/




fingers crossed it keeps the active exhaust the R32 has
 
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alexs2

Distinguished Member
i want one badly to replace my R32

with a DSG box ofc

loads of space, quality finish, 4wd, dsg box :smashin:, and finally easily tunable :thumbsup: oh and adjustable suspension settings

and you wont feel like a plum like you do in an evo or scooby

its win win win :cool: with 350bhp my perfect real world car


some great pics here

Frankfurt 2009 Volkswagen Golf R20 — Autoblog




fingers crossed it keeps the active exhaust the R32 has

Nice car.....It is reported as having the S3's engine under there,and very likely the exhaust with flap-valve.
Tuning should therefore be very easy as all of the work has already been done with the S3,by companies such as Revo and GIAC for remaps,and Forge and Milltek for the pipework.

It also has the Haldex 4WD system,so it looks basically like a VW "S3".

That being the case,you'd need about £2-3k to get 350bhp or thereabouts.

That would get you a Milltek exhaust,high pressure fuel pump,intake system and the remap,plus an uprated diverter valve.

If you're wondering,my S3 has had all of those done,and whilst you can cut corners a bit,the exhaust is pretty much essential for over 310bhp,and the fuel pump for anything over 330bhp.
The intake becomes essential over 330bhp,as you will get airflow limitation with the stock induction system,and a misfire was the result with mine.

One other thing...you may want to check around as to the torque limits(not the manufacturer limits) for the DSG box and remapped engines.

There's quite a bit about that on Audi-Sport.net etc,and most of the guys running a lot of power on those engines use manual boxes.
The DSG allegedly doesn't last too well with much over 300-330lbs of torque,and many of these maps run close to or above that,although there is one guy I know of who was running a 360bhp DSG Golf on the stock box.

You would be best advised to contact Revo,or GIAC,and maybe also an established tuner like AMD to get the verdict on that.

You would also need an uprated clutch if you had a manual.
 

eric pisch

Distinguished Member
Nice car.....It is reported as having the S3's engine under there,and very likely the exhaust with flap-valve.
Tuning should therefore be very easy as all of the work has already been done with the S3,by companies such as Revo and GIAC for remaps,and Forge and Milltek for the pipework.

It also has the Haldex 4WD system,so it looks basically like a VW "S3".

That being the case,you'd need about £2-3k to get 350bhp or thereabouts.

That would get you a Milltek exhaust,high pressure fuel pump,intake system and the remap,plus an uprated diverter valve.

If you're wondering,my S3 has had all of those done,and whilst you can cut corners a bit,the exhaust is pretty much essential for over 310bhp,and the fuel pump for anything over 330bhp.
The intake becomes essential over 330bhp,as you will get airflow limitation with the stock induction system,and a misfire was the result with mine.

One other thing...you may want to check around as to the torque limits(not the manufacturer limits) for the DSG box and remapped engines.

There's quite a bit about that on Audi-Sport.net etc,and most of the guys running a lot of power on those engines use manual boxes.
The DSG allegedly doesn't last too well with much over 300-330lbs of torque,and many of these maps run close to or above that,although there is one guy I know of who was running a 360bhp DSG Golf on the stock box.

You would be best advised to contact Revo,or GIAC,and maybe also an established tuner like AMD to get the verdict on that.

You would also need an uprated clutch if you had a manual.

yep i was budgeting on 3k (bargin)

i think the dsg torque limit is just typical VW fluff to put ppl of tuning, dont forget the veyron has a dsg box as does the r35 which is taking 800bhp atm with no issues, ok there different boxes but at the end of the day i have spanked the monkeys out of mine for the last 30k and they have to design them to last 100k with nutters like me behind the wheel, and if i half the life of it well that just makes it more fun for who ever gets it after the lease runs out :D
 

eric pisch

Distinguished Member
I like that, looks nice. The new Golf is going to be announced in 2012 though:

VW Golf MkVII exclusive pics | Auto Express News | News | Auto Express

Why are VW changing it so quickly? IMO it should be at least a 5 year lifespan.

VW where in a dilema, the IV was pretty much slated all round as a the worst golf ever especially the GTi so they spent alot of effort making the V very good, problem was it is very expensive to make, the VI is in reality a V fine tuned to make it alot cheaper to make and tarted up abit, so its really golf V 1/2

the next golf will be on a new platform

and be careful with alot of these pics, 99% of the time there photoshop'd
 

alexs2

Distinguished Member
yep i was budgeting on 3k (bargin)

i think the dsg torque limit is just typical VW fluff to put ppl of tuning, dont forget the veyron has a dsg box as does the r35 which is taking 800bhp atm with no issues, ok there different boxes but at the end of the day i have spanked the monkeys out of mine for the last 30k and they have to design them to last 100k with nutters like me behind the wheel, and if i half the life of it well that just makes it more fun for who ever gets it after the lease runs out :D

Hence what I said at the end of my chapter(!) there about the guy who was running an ED30 with that sort of power and a bit less torque at 350lbs....your R32 would be about 240lbs or thereabouts.

The Veyron certainly does have a DSG box,but probably not the same one as the S3/R20.

Seriously though,it is worth running by your chosen tuner.

VW/Audi's usual line for putting you off tuning is the "invalid warranty" one,which does work...up to a point :D

Mine is due for it's first major service,and I can already hear that line now.

Anyway,if you do get an R20,and Essex isn't too far out of your way,I can heartily recommend AMD.

For the performance,£3k is a bargain as you say,and about what I've chalked up so far....
 

lovegroova

Well-known Member
Indeed, the Veyron gearbox is made by Ricardo in England, and not Borg-Warner in Germany.
 

alexs2

Distinguished Member
Indeed, the Veyron gearbox is made by Ricardo in England, and not Borg-Warner in Germany.

Both make some good tough 'boxes but Ricardo do have the racing pedigree behind them.

Anyway....I do agree that VW have some considerable margin in the DSG box for the A3/Golf,and the spectre of gearbox failure does tend to put people off tuning engines.

Mine is an old-fashioned manual(apologies Eric!) but it gets the job done and it shouldn't break.
 

waring192

Well-known Member
So what you think; hold out for this or go for the S3? I have a E92 330i at the mo but hate the runflats and the auto box.
How good is the DSG? Is it worth taking out a R32 from a local VW dealer to see what its like?
 

alexs2

Distinguished Member
So what you think; hold out for this or go for the S3? I have a E92 330i at the mo but hate the runflats and the auto box.
How good is the DSG? Is it worth taking out a R32 from a local VW dealer to see what its like?

If I were you,I would try both the R32 and the S3....the R20 will feel very like the S3 upon which it is very heavily based.

Bear in mind with both,that they are quite soft suspension-wise from stock,and that both will feel similar in terms of speed.

The S3 will have a bit of lag,but is substantially quicker than the R32 once moving,and as a turbo,has much more capacity for tuning,within a lower cost bracket.

By that I mean that whilst you can extract over 400bhp from the 3.2 V6,you will have to turbo- or supercharge it to do so,and this is expensive.

The S3 engine has been proven to well over 400bhp without changing the internals,although to go beyond 370bhp you do need a larger turbo.

The DSG,I'm sure Eric will tell you,is excellent,and a very worthwhile addition if you can afford it,although for very high torque conversions,possibly worth being careful of.
Most of us wouldn't be looking to such conversions.

I'm very happy with a modified S3,having owned an A3 3.2(which is basically a more expensive version of the R32) for a while before that.

The RS3,if it ever appears,will be over £40k and more fully loaded,although it may offer 360bhp from stock,and over 400bhp without expensive mods.

Look carefully at the R32 and S3....also possibly consider the Focus RS although it is a bit garish.
 

lovegroova

Well-known Member
£40k for an A3 (albeit a very fast one). The world's gone mad, maaaad, I tells ya! :rotfl:
 
D

Deleted member 39001

Guest
VW where in a dilema, the IV was pretty much slated all round as a the worst golf ever especially the GTi so they spent alot of effort making the V very good, problem was it is very expensive to make, the VI is in reality a V fine tuned to make it alot cheaper to make and tarted up abit, so its really golf V 1/2

the next golf will be on a new platform

and be careful with alot of these pics, 99% of the time there photoshop'd

Oow, I get ya. :) tad confusing but I see what you mean.

As to the DSG gearbox thing, well every supercar sold has one does it not or has an option for one? What do Lambo's use? The same sort of box as Audi's? Whilst I think they are personal choice if you like them or not I would expect one to last the same as a manuel.

And as regards to the Focus RS, whilst it's a brilliant car and looks better in blue then the horrid green, it is front wheel drive so won't give the same grip levels.
 

eric pisch

Distinguished Member
Both make some good tough 'boxes but Ricardo do have the racing pedigree behind them.

Anyway....I do agree that VW have some considerable margin in the DSG box for the A3/Golf,and the spectre of gearbox failure does tend to put people off tuning engines.

Mine is an old-fashioned manual(apologies Eric!) but it gets the job done and it shouldn't break.

no apologies, its all about what you want from it

I want a real world car not a track special, and i unfortunately commute into SE london and with the constant jams due to water main replacement, stuck bendy buses, crashes, rain, random road works etc DSG is the perfect option. Just shove it in auto and let it deal with all that stop start crap. When the roads clear M and play time :)

However I love the fact you can change gear mid bend on full chat in the wet and it does nothing to the balance of the car :D:thumbsup:
 

alexs2

Distinguished Member
no apologies, its all about what you want from it

I want a real world car not a track special, and i unfortunately commute into SE london and with the constant jams due to water main replacement, stuck bendy buses, crashes, rain, random road works etc DSG is the perfect option. Just shove it in auto and let it deal with all that stop start crap. When the roads clear M and play time :)

However I love the fact you can change gear mid bend on full chat in the wet and it does nothing to the balance of the car :D:thumbsup:

True...I've driven a track car as a raod car for 3 years(not in London thankfully),and whilst it was hilarious fun at times,it could also be a real pain.

You need something you can not only use,but actually enjoy driving every day...not just when you're fully focussed and wide awake.
 

FZR400RRSP

Banned
As to the DSG gearbox thing, well every supercar sold has one does it not or has an option for one? What do Lambo's use? The same sort of box as Audi's?

They may have the same type of gearbox, but they will operate differently.
DSG in a Golf/Audi/Seat won't let you anywhere near the red line.
It'll change up for you, even in what they call 'manual' mode.
There's no way a proper sports car/supercar driver will put up with that.
It's a crucial difference, which gives a proper fast driver proper control.
Not pretend control within defined parameters.

There were loads of times when the auto-change up at redline hacked me right off, even in my humble 2.0tdi car.
 
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alexs2

Distinguished Member
They may have the same type of gearbox, but they will operate differently.
DSG in a Golf/Audi/Seat won't let you anywhere near the red line.
It'll change up for you, even in what they call 'manual' mode.
There's no way a proper sports car/supercar driver will put up with that.
It's a crucial difference, which gives a proper fast driver proper control.
Not pretend control within defined parameters.

There were loads of times when the auto-change up at redline hacked me right off, even in my humble 2.0tdi car.


It all comes down to the gearbox programming.....as with the stock engine parameters,the gearbox map is also rather "safer" than aftermarket setups,and there are a few remaps available for the VW/Audi DSG boxes,which permit increased torque limits,red line,shift speeds etc etc.

One example here...

HPA Motorsports Inc. - DSG Performance Programming

Obviously,in answer to what apolloa has said,the mapping on the Lamborghinis say,will be different to others from VAG,even though the box in principle is much the same.
The clutch packs will also be different,and the tuner above does comment on the limits of the OEM DSG clutch packs.
 

FZR400RRSP

Banned
I tried and tried to find a UK company willing/able to reprogramme DSG for me.
There were at least three or four other guys on an Audi forum interested.
Couldn't find anyone....:(
 

eric pisch

Distinguished Member
They may have the same type of gearbox, but they will operate differently.
DSG in a Golf/Audi/Seat won't let you anywhere near the red line.
It'll change up for you, even in what they call 'manual' mode.
There's no way a proper sports car/supercar driver will put up with that.
It's a crucial difference, which gives a proper fast driver proper control.
Not pretend control within defined parameters.

There were loads of times when the auto-change up at redline hacked me right off, even in my humble 2.0tdi car.

wont let u near the red line?

it changes on the red line

does this matter? no, you either learn throttle control and hold it 50rpm below the line in which case it will stay there for ever, or you just let it change which it does so smoothly and quickly it does not upset the handling of the car even flat out on corners, well not in the R32 anyway
 

alexs2

Distinguished Member
I tried and tried to find a UK company willing/able to reprogramme DSG for me.
There were at least three or four other guys on an Audi forum interested.
Couldn't find anyone....:(

GIAC is one of the reampping companies offering DSG remaps.


GIAC - News

There are a number of UK based GIAC distributors.
 

FZR400RRSP

Banned
does this matter? no, you either learn throttle control and hold it 50rpm below the line in which case it will stay there for ever, or you just let it change which it does so smoothly and quickly it does not upset the handling of the car even flat out on corners, well not in the R32 anyway

LOL, like you (or anyone else) could hold a throttle to within a tolerance of 50rpm...:rotfl:
If you've never had occasion for the DSG to change up for you at a very inconvenient time, you must drive pretty gently, IMO.
There were loads of time I'd be going along a short straight approaching a corner.
A change up was inappropriate, I wanted the car to keep in the same gear for engine braking and stay in the same gear through the corner.
Nooooo...DSG would change up for me just as I was about to brake.

Bottom line, Eric.
You're evidently happy not having full and absolute control.
I and plenty of others aren't.
Hence the (too late for me) software companies offering changes.
If it was as faultless and wonderful as you think, there'd be no demand.
 

alexs2

Distinguished Member
Oh great....now they do it.....:D

:smashin:

Usually the way,isn't it. :rotfl:

Like for those of us possibly waiting for the RS3 to possibly appear or then again not.

In the meantime,I can see that the R20 and S3 will fill the gap pretty well,given their potential.

Anyway...let's not divert this thread with the DSG Vs manual debate,which we've already had on another thread.
 

eric pisch

Distinguished Member
LOL, like you (or anyone else) could hold a throttle to within a tolerance of 50rpm...:rotfl:
If you've never had occasion for the DSG to change up for you at a very inconvenient time, you must drive pretty gently, IMO.
There were loads of time I'd be going along a short straight approaching a corner.
A change up was inappropriate, I wanted the car to keep in the same gear for engine braking and stay in the same gear through the corner.
Nooooo...DSG would change up for me just as I was about to brake.

Bottom line, Eric.
You're evidently happy not having full and absolute control.
I and plenty of others aren't.
Hence the (too late for me) software companies offering changes.
If it was as faultless and wonderful as you think, there'd be no demand.

well 100 revs then, its not hard

i spank the arse of it, that's all i can say, am allowed to post here how i actually drive, i disintegrated a front pad thou :)

not having full and absolute control :rotfl::rotfl: funniest statement ever, even if your throttle control is that appalling you can short shift as well you know

i have 100% control all the time, its not hard well for me

it woulndt matter what a company did there would always be a demand for more, nissan mad the GTR a monster out of the box with one of the fastest gearboxes in a production car, and hours after it went on sale people where buying more power mods and gearbox mods, your point is irelevant
 
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alexs2

Distinguished Member
OK guys...back on track now.

The DSG argument has been done before.

I think that as long as a car chas the potential to be modified,there will be a market to provide that,and people who will use that.
 

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