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Going to see a Philips 32PF9986 at Lakes

Discussion in 'LCD & LED LCD TVs' started by Vorix, Feb 4, 2005.

  1. Vorix

    Vorix
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    Hi All

    Having lurked on here for the past week or so, I went into Lakes in Bracknell this afternoon to have a proper look at the Philips 32PF9986. I was astonished at how badly they had it set up so asked for a proper demo with a progressive scan DVD player. The guy pulled a Panasonic S97 (?) and then proceeded to try to connect it up with a scart cable to the Scart 3 socket.

    Now, as I understand it, progressive scan outputs aren't supported by scart connections, the Scart 3 socket on the 9986 doesn't support RGB, and you need to use a component to DVI cable or connection block to make it all work properly.

    Anyway, it was all too much trouble so I agreed to go back in tomorrow, after he says it is properly set up. My concern is that I'm not sure they know what they're doing there....does anyone have any direct experience of Lakes?
    The advertised price (£2299) includes a DVD Recorder (Philips DVDR80 - any opinions?), 3 year warranty and 12 months interest free credit but they may be willing to negotiate. ;)

    So, I should be looking for this set to be demonstrated with both component video into the DVI connector and (as a comparison) an RGB Scart feed into the RGB 1 or 2 - is that right?

    Final point (last one honest!) I plan to hook up a laptop using a VGA cable - from the specs on the Philips web site it says it supports XGA resolution (1024 x 768) but does this stretch across the screen or keep the correct 4:3 ratio for this resolution?

    Thanks for taking the time to get this far. Any and all answers/comments gratefully accepted.
     
  2. jimsan

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    Good luck with this tomorrow!

    Start with the easy stuff. Hook up a DVD player via Scart into Ext1 or 2. These are the two that are side by side. Get into the menu and go to picture settings and input the following:
    http://www.avforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1419573&postcount=2

    The PQ on scart feeds is very good and compares well with the Progressive input, up to a point! With fast moving scenes the Progressive input shows its superiority.

    Try Progressive next. This isn't easy, even when you're at home! Check this first. Get the remote and punch in 123654. Look at the top line. If it has 1.3 in it your Progressive Demo is scuppered! If it has a 2.1 then carry on.

    Connect a component lead to the Component/VGA/DVI adapter. (red/red, Blue/yellow, green/white). Plug it into the DVI socket. Select DVI on the TV. Start the DVD player and select Progressive Scan on its output menu (or its fascia). The TV will show nothing if this isn't selected!

    If you get this to work I'll be impressed!

    The DVI is much simpler, but they'll probably have kicked you out of the shop by the time you get this far!

    The price looks OK, but the Philips recorder is nothing special. Get the TV at £1900 ish and just buy a Panny E55 for £199. Better recorder and its also a mighty impressive Progressive DVD player.

    Have fun ad keep us posted.

    Jimmy
     
  3. bluemoonmcfc

    bluemoonmcfc
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    This is abit like the fun i had tonight, first i went to Comet to have a close look, then i asked one of the comet staff to show me it working via dvd cus the picture that they had on the loop was awful he told me he could not and it was not worth him doing it. :mad: Bye then................

    So then i dragged the wife to John Lewis :) to try and get a demo there, all went well till the member of staff looked over his shoulder then behide me to see if there was anyone else about, he then told me that i should not bother with this lcd and should wait a year till the new HI-DEF lcd screens came out, i looked at him puzzeld and said this was compatible with hi-def he said no its not its not got the new hdmi socket and it needed that to be compatible with hi-def sky. Then he told me that sky was releasing sky hi-def in sep this year he said sky had told John Lewis this.

    Just amazes me who crap some people are at getting things right, still he did say they would price match it for me when i needed one, said they had 14 in there wharehouse so all i need to do now is talk the wife round :D

    The one thing i am worried about tho is how i am going to connect everthing up because in the future i will be getting xbox 2, ps3, dvd with hdmi output, got a dvd recorder with component output, sky hi-def,HD-DVD, and maybe even Blue-ray, man all these connections to sort out :eek: whats your thoughts people.

    Cheers pete
     
  4. jimsan

    jimsan
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    HDMI/DVI switching box. Easy.

    Jimmy
     
  5. Vorix

    Vorix
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    That's great - thanks for the replies. They've been printed off for reference at the shop.
    However, I've just been looking through the specs of the TV again and thought it had a VGA input but it doesn't. My plan was to hook up both a PC (for use by the kids to play simple games on) plus my DVD player which has component outputs. Can this component/VGA to DVI connector have both a VGA cable and the component leads attached at the same time? How else could this work? Are we back to the horrible old days of switch boxes (like when your TV only had 1 RGB Scart socket)?

    I've been looking at the thread that relates to the Toshiba 32WL48 which has all the inputs you could want but can't find any reviews of it as a set. Anyone got a link?

    Having just watched the Gadget Show in Channel 5 last night they were really scathing about the pq on the current set of LCD's (including the Philips!).
     
  6. jimsan

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    I wish I'd seen this Gadget Show last night! I'm willing to bet their research into the subject went about as far as wandering around Comet for 10 minutes looking at the LCD's in there!

    LCD's are a bit like high performance cars...you need to fettle them, unfortunately, to get their full performance, but it's worth it when you get it right.

    You're right about the Switch box thing Vorix. That is the way we'll have to go. In a few years time, I expect the penny will drop with the big screem manufacturers that it might be a good idea to put mote than 1 HDMI/DVI socket on the back of their sets... There will be Home Cinema recievers that'll handle all this switching for us by that time, which could be a neater solution.

    The Tosh you mention seemed as if it was going to be an excellent set, but a numvber of people are having difficulty getting it to produce clean pictures, especially with the digital connection.

    Go and have a good look at the sets yourself and decide, for yourself, if they are up to scratch. If you get the Philips working properly prepare to be flabberghasted!

    Jimmy
     
  7. Alan D

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    Any recommendations for a DVI swtichbox? Anyone tried one?
     
  8. bluemoonmcfc

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    Is this the kind of thing you mean jim 4x1 HDTV Switcher Look at the price
     
  9. Vorix

    Vorix
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    Well, that was a waste of time! Anyone would think they're just not interested in selling anything - perhaps they've become so disillusioned by people asking for them to do all the work and then going on to the web to buy that they can't be bothered any more.
    The guy said he fiddled with it a bit last night but couldn't get it working properly and he'll have a go next week and give me a call. Somehow, I can see myself going elsewhere......
     
  10. jimsan

    jimsan
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    You could try what a few of the guys are doing and just buy one from the likes of Empire Direct. They're quite happy to swap out TV's for other models until you're happy.

    You get the set at home, fettle it to perfection, then decide! I realise this can be a real hassle, but at least you're getting the best demo possible!

    As far as switchers go, I haven't tried one myself, but, as usual, there'll be good ones and duffers. I do know of somebody, can't remember who at the moment, who got his hands on a 5 way DVI switcher with its own remote. Nice looking thing that blended with the other AV kit. Some wee blue lights on the front...I'll check and see if I can get summore info.

    The switcher shown isn't the same, but you get the idea. Couple of hundred quid seems OK - it's fairly HiTech stuff.

    Jimmy
     
  11. bluemoonmcfc

    bluemoonmcfc
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    Am just used to paying £20 for an RGB switch box thats all Jim lol. I better get saving then, more begging to the wife seems to be the key :)
     
  12. Vorix

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    Just bumping this back to the top for a further couple of questions because my head is starting to spin with the different options that are available.

    An absolute must for me is the ability to connect a PC via either VGA or DVI and connect a DVD via component.

    Can the 32PF9986 support this without having to physically disconnect and reconnect cables.

    I haven't seen any images of this connector that Philips supply for the DVI port, so can't really get my head around what it looks like or how it works. I understand it allows component video/VGA but is this an AND or an OR (if you see what I mean)? Can anyone supply a picture?

    Final quick question (may start another thread if no-one answers this) - is it possible to send the output from a PC VGA (15 pin DSUB) socket to a SCART? I've seen cables that say they do SCART to VGA but can you use these in the other direction? Would this work? My thinking is that if you can't connect both component video AND VGA to the DVI port then this would be a backup plan for the PC connection - I'm not worried about mega high quality, it will mainly be for the kids (under 8) to play simple games on.

    I got very close to ordering the Toshiba 32WL48 this afternoon just because these connection problems wouldn't be an issue then, even if it meant a small compromise on the overall picture (and a considerable cost saving!)
     
  13. Vorix

    Vorix
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    Just found the answer to my last question on the VGA - SCART cable question here:

    http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136811&page=1&pp=15

    Looks like a nightmare, especially since the PC in question is a Toshiba laptop which means if a blow up the graphics the whole machine would probably then be shot.

    I'm going to keep scratching my head over this for a while longer. :confused:
     
  14. jimsan

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    Without a switch box of some sort, you would have to plug/unplug. Let me describe the Philips Adapter. DVI connector with a VGA output-single moulded piece. A VGA/Component lead plugs into this. You can therefore plug in 1 DVI or 1 VGA or 1 component. You want to connect 1 component and 1 VGA or DVI. A splitter of some sort has to be available.

    I'll bung you a photo of it if you want.

    Jimmy
     
  15. Vorix

    Vorix
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    Hi Jimmy

    A pic would be great, just so I can understand what's what. Cheers

    Doing further research on the VGA to Scart issue, I came across some things called 'scan converters'. Dabs.com do one made by Trust (TeleViewer 1610 RC) http://www.dabs.com/uk/productview?quicklinx=2FK6&referrerid=NB for about £50. This will support up to 1024x768 to an RGB Scart, apparently but no idea what the quality would be like.

    Andrew
     
  16. jimsan

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    Here you go.

    It sounds to me like you're making life difficult for yourself. There must be a simple Two into One DVI adapter that'll sort you out. Got to be.

    Jimmy
     

    Attached Files:

  17. MeloManiac

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    Why not just use a standard dual VGA-switch, since we already have to go to VGA from DVD component out...? Isn't that the case. Component>VGA>VGA>DVI?
     
  18. Vorix

    Vorix
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    Interesting - I had a different image in my mind - I hadn't realised that, as MeloManiac has pointed out, it went from component to VGA then VGA to DVI, I'd assumed the adaptor had a row of RCA sockets on it, as well as a VGA socket.
    So, a simple VGA switch box would solve the problem. Cheers. :thumbsup:
     
  19. MeloManiac

    MeloManiac
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    Hey don't trust me:) I don't have the TV (yet) but this is just what my assumption is based on what I have read regarding the adaptors. It seems to me that what comes with the 9986 are these two:

    Component>VGA
    VGA>DVI

    Maybe I am way off here, I am sure jimsan or other experts can chime in with a definite answer.

    EDIT: I just took a look at Jimsan's attached picture, and it does indeed seems to be the case. However, you would need to add an extension cable from the VGA switchbox to the VGA>DVI connecter. But that shouldn't be much of an image degration if you keep it short.
     
  20. jimsan

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  21. imh

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    Has anyone seen a DVI switchbox or combiner on the web? I've totally failed to find one so far that wasn't the price of a small LCD tv, and I am a touch concerned that it will be difficult to connect a PC and a DVD to a display with only one HDMI or DVI input.
     
  22. bluemoonmcfc

    bluemoonmcfc
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    This is the cheapest ive have found $290 works out about £160 that includes delivery from usa here's the Link Hope this is what you ment
     
  23. imh

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    This is the cheapest ive have found $290 works out about £160 that includes delivery from usa here's the Link Hope this is what you ment[/QUOTE]

    Alas from the picture I think it's DVI-D only. I've got VGA output on the PC I want to use. :thumbsdow
     
  24. jimsan

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    Iain, then check ot the link on post #20. Its a VGA one I think. This'll link nicely into the adapter.

    Jimmy
     
  25. imh

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    Isn't that VGA only? I'm obviously failing to explain myself so here goes...
    I intend to use my LCD display (which will have DVI-I HDCP) for 3 main purposes, TV, DVD and PC. Since the PC (which has VGA out) has pretty much to be connected to the DVI-I this then means I'll be unable to use the DVI-I in for a swnky DVD player (say a nice HD-DVD one when they come out. :) )

    Thus my need for a DVI-I switcher, preferably one that doesn't cost the earth.

    Of course it may be possible to wire both VGA and DVI-D connectors into on DVI-I connector which might slve the problem.... then again, it might not.

    :rolleyes:

    (on preview I've just realised the word swnky has to misspelt or turned into s****y, silly or what :) )
     
  26. imh

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    This is one of the few that seems to suggest it might do it all
     
  27. jimsan

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    Yeah, sorry Iain I was bein' fik...

    Of course, as soon as your DVI/DVI DVD player is hooked up that effectively blanks this socket from use with anything else. We are going to have to get this DVI switching thing sorted...

    ...get the soldering iron out!

    Jimmy
     
  28. imh

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    That might just work too, sent an email abou this to Keene and got back the folowing

    Hi
    Yes it is possible. The analogue signal uses different pins to the digital
    25pins for digital and an extra 4 for the analogue.
    Many thanks


    -----Original Message-----
    From: imh [mailto:]
    Sent: 06 February 2005 23:48
    To: info@keene.co.uk
    Subject: DVI/VGA Question

    Hi,

    On your website you say "Don't forget, you can ask us if you have any
    questions relating to the use of AV accessories, and we'll do our best to
    e-mail you back a solution. Free, of course." so here goes.

    I'm wondering if it's possible combine a VGA signal and a DVI-D signal
    into a DVI-I connector. In my case use the VGA from a computer or DVI-D
    from another device (tho abvoiusly not at the same time)
    Is this technically feasable or does the wiring of DVI-I cables prevent
    this? I'm hoping to not have to buy an extremely expensive DVI switchbox
    you see...

    Many thanks in advance ...
    Iain


    Now, all I need is a soldering iron, and a spare DVI-I cable, spare VGA cable and a sudden increase in manual dexterity. :)
     
  29. jimsan

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    If you get this to work, make about 1000 of them and laugh all the way to the Bank!

    Jimmy
     
  30. Vorix

    Vorix
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    My thoughts exactly. Although it looks like a simple switch box or KVM may do the trick also.

    Anyway, went into John Lewis in Reading this afternoon to see what they had on display. The Philips was there and running but with the DVD player plugged into EXT3 so another crappy picture. The sales guy swapped it to EXT1 but then couldn't find the remote to change the settings! What is it with these people?
    They had it up for £2299 and he said they would price match but I just need to find somewhere (not web based) with it in stock at below £2K.

    Then the guy from Lakes called to say he's having another model delivered from the warehouse to get set up in store since he thinks the first one was knackered in some way. So, hopefully, I'll finally get to see it in its full glory later in the week.
     

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