Going from 36" to 32"

Discussion in 'General TV Discussions Forum' started by Mr_P, Jul 7, 2002.

  1. Mr_P

    Mr_P
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    Well no doubt those with Sony FQ/FS sets will know, I got a refund from my FS70 model. I was considering the Loewe Articos or the Loewe Aconda 9381.

    Well today I saw the 9381 in the flesh for the same time in my local House of Fraser. Impressions? Well it looked well built and the dvd it what running (not sure of the film name) looked very natural and impressive. However the screen looked very small!!! I thought it was a 28" screen!! However it was a 32 but a very small 32"!!!

    I had a go of the set and at first it wasn't as intuitive as the Sony set I am used to. Eventually I got PAP and PIP working but not PAT. I asked the staff and it took them a long time to get PAT. At first I was told it didn't do PAT but I knew the set did and I had to insist that they found out for me. Eventually they managed to get PAT but then I asked about PAT with the text from another channel. This totally stumped them and even after another 10 mins, they were no further forward. Eventually through a bit of luck I got a small picture in the left hand corner and text from another channel. However I couldn't get two equal screens of PAT with text from another channel. Can this be done on the 9381?

    Overall it is a nice smart tv, the menu system is comprehensive and I guess once you know how to operate things, it will be second nature. The pan screen option was selected and it was outputting terrestrial channels in a 14:9 type of format. I changed it to 16:9 and that filled the screen, which is what I am used to. I would need to do further tests on the tv with a suitable dvd but compared to the other sets in the shop playing the same dvd, its picture seemed more natural and pleasing to the eye. However as usual the aerial input was appalling so I couldn't really comment on normal broadcast material. Again I probably need to find a specialist shop with staff knowing what they are talking about!

    However my big concern is whether I could drop down to a 32" screen. My lounge is fairly large, more a square room and I would say a 36" screen is perfect. However compared to other 32" screens the Loewe 32 screen seemed small in comparison. And I have just got used to playing Halo and PGR in full 36" display!!!

    Decisions, decisions, decisions!!!
     
  2. stranger

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    why not try a tosh 36" picture frame- available at a good price.
     
  3. Pete Callan

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    I have a Loewe Vitros "32 inch" but when I bought it, I knew it was in fact a 30 inch. I've just measured it to make sure. So you were probably looking at a 30 inch Loewe.
     
  4. Buckster

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    All 32inch TVs have a 30inch ish screen size, not just the Loewes ! 32 inch is simply the tube size, not actual displayed size, just like a 17 inch monitor, actual display is about 15.7-16 inches. I used to have a 32 inch Panasonic, that was also about 30 inches on the diagonal.

    Mark.
     
  5. kev_gordon

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    Being in the PC business, I knew that PC monitors were measured as the total diagonal tube size, regardless of how much the bezel covered, and not the visible size.

    But I had always thought that the convention on TV's was that the measurement was always the visible tube size. I'm 90% sure about that.

    When did things change?
     
  6. Buckster

    Buckster
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    It might have been in the past - can't say - but it isn't now:

    eg, this is for Sony KD32DX100 off Sony's website:

    Screen Size (cm/inch) 82 cm / 32 inch
    Visible Screen Size (cm) 76 cm

    ie Visible screen size = approx 29.9 inches !

    Same for Loewes, Toshibas, Panasonics etc etc

    Mark.
     
  7. simon1

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    Nothing changed in the last god knows how many years. Manufacturers have always measured tv screens by the diagonal tube (part of it not visable) in inches, and incorporated this in to the model no.

    However, due to consumer legislation in recent years they have been obliged to include the 'visable' screen size in cm.

    In some other countries, although they are using the same size tubes, they quote things rather differently. Take the US, for instance. The will call our 36" set a Sony 34FQ75 for example and call it a 34" set.

    I am very surprised, that people didn't realise this and that they would be expecting to get a 32" or 36" visable screen.

    I used to work in tv shops and sometimes had complaints from customers that we were misleading them. I pointed out the reason it was done like this was to give an easy comparison to their existing set (Murphy, Pye, ITT, etc). These were measured in the same way, so if Panasonic/Sony, etc actually advertised their 21" sets as only being 19.5", it would sound smaller than there 20" Murphy - which wouldn't be the case.

    Some people think it's a con. I beg to differ.
     
  8. Mr_P

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    Fair enough comments and ones that I already knew about.

    What I was trying to say was looking at the Loewe 32" models, the screen to the eye looked a lot smaller due to the way the set is designed, ie large panels to the left and right of the screen. Compared to say a picture frame tv where to the eye, that screen would look a lot bigger. In reality yes they are the same size.

    Plus with having a 36" Sony and getting used to that, dropping down to a 32" might be too much of a sacrifice.
     
  9. stretcher

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    Hi there Mr P.

    I had a Panasonic 36 (sorry 34") for just over a year, but was never really happy with it because any (what would have been) small blemish, digital or otherwise, was of course amplified.

    I felt so disappointed with it that I started looking at smaller 32 inch sets.

    Well, I've now had my Loewe Aconda 9381 for 10 days, and I am absolutely chuffed to bits. My living room is 11 x 18ft, and we generally sit between 8 - 12 feet away from the set. I know its obvious to say that reducing the screen size would improve resolution, but I really didn't realise how good it would be with the Loewe, particularly with good source material such as the R1 superbit Fifth Element.

    I got my set from HoF (Bluewater) and have the option of returning it still if I am not happy. I was a bit worried initially that dropping screen size would cause a problem and might make it seem too small from those distances. But for me, that's not the case and I'm keeping this gorgeous set.

    Can you get your potential supplier to let you try the set at home? By the way, I flogged the Panny fairly quickly so I'm not lumbered with an extra 16:9 set!!! :D
     
  10. simon1

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    I agree, some sets can look bigger than others, even with the same size tube.
     
  11. Mr_P

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    stretcher,

    My lounge is similar 16 *13 ft. I sit around 13 ft away however and there is no way I can change the set up.

    It would be nice to 'borrow' an Aconda or Articos to see how it fits into my lounge and the viewing distance. I suppose I could ask around the stores selling the tv's, no harm in asking!!

    With me getting a refund for my FS70 and sweet talking my wife, I now have a budget for a Loewe Aconda 9381 plus amp plus speakers so it should be a good set up. If I push for an Articos then I may have to wait for the amp and speakers!

    I wonder if you would be so kind to post some answers to a couple of questions I have on the 9381.

    PAP - 2 different channels, can you individually re-size the two screens showing? Also can one of these pictures be the input fom the AV channels, ie TV and X box both showing?

    PAT - split nicely in 2 equal screens. However can you get text from another channel say ITV teletext while watching BBC1? Also if possible text and also an av display? Useful if watching a dvd/video and you want the latest scores!

    PIP What options do you have for this?

    RGB Do you have options to size, centre, horizontally and vertically?

    If you can think of any other clever features, then let me know, ie controlling the sound and speakers etc.

    When I was in HOF, the staff were useless and that is being kind. I am trying to get to an independent retailer this week but if I know what the set can and can't do, I can at least insist on them showing me the features I know the set has.
    Much appreciated.
     
  12. stretcher

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    Hi again Mr P

    I'll have to get back to you on some of your questions - I'm still finding out about what it can and can't do.

    As far as the PAP is concerned (I take it this is the split screen), no you can't resize it - however with PIP, there are two sizes available, which you can locate in any of the four corners of the screen.

    With the RGB, I can't help you there - can't find any reference to changing that outside of the service menu - this you CAN access to change the geometry of the screem (having first taken very careful not of the factory settings) - this I had to do to elimate a moire problem with R1 discs - but the point is it was totally correctable - there's another thread about this with a great deal of help from 'groundy'.

    I'll have a play with the other settings for you, but I won't be able to do this until the weekend - I will post back though.

    Cheers
     
  13. Mr_P

    Mr_P
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    Thanks for the reply.

    I'm hoping to have a good look tomorrow at a 9381 model so will ask my questions then.

    I'll post what I find out on here so at least you know what you can and can't do with the set (taking that the assistants in the shop can work out what to do!!)
     
  14. Mr_P

    Mr_P
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    Well today I spent about an hour testing out the 9381 and only at the end did I realise that I was testing a Q2400 model and not a Q2500!!!

    I tried out all the various PIP options, with either a small or large inner picture in the choice of corners. Pleased with that.

    PAP was also fine with 2 equal pictures, these pictures could be from any source, eg dvd, ps2, etc. Again satisfied with the set.

    PAT was again split 50:50, text from the same channel. Okay with that.

    I got the tv to show a small picture in the left hand corner with the text in a larger window. However on Sunday, I had managed to get another 9381 to show a different channel alongside the text, however I couldn't today. Maybe the Q2500 chassis can do this, the Q2400 cannot). Can anyone give me any feedback on this?

    However my biggest concern was that when I connected a dvd player to the tv, and got the dvd to output in rgb, I couldn't find the usual rgb pos menu, the one that allows you to adjust the rgb picture, h centre, h pos and in some tv's even the v centre and vpos. This left me baffled, nearly all the high spec sets I have had allow the rgp to be re-positioned. PLEASE CAN SOMEONE TELL ME THAT YOU CAN DO THIS ON THE 9381 or ARTICOS?

    The sound was okay, althought I will be using an external amp. However I read somewhere that the speaker on the tv could be used as the central speaker in a 5.1 set up. Again I couldn't find how to do this at all in the menu. CAN ANYONE HELP ON THIS AGAIN?

    Overall I was impressed with the tv, then again when playing dvd's on my FS70 I am impressed, as my set does not have scrolling bars on AV1 only through RF and the other AV connections. It would have been nice if the Loewe was 36"! I thought the menu system took some getting used to. The SONY remote seems easier to use and the features easier to set, then again, I suppose it is a matter of getting used to it over time. There was a good help index but I was left a little bit short changed when I checked and found it was the Q2400 model as I was wanting to check a Q2500 9581!!!

    Can anyone provide any answers to the above, especially the rgb positioning. I can't believe a set of this quality cannot have that option. I know my ps2 needs shifting over to the right and I would not like to have a bar down the right hand side when I have this connected up to the Loewe.

    I am very close to buying a Loewe, but I think I need to find out the answers to my questions, see a Q2500 model and take a look at the Articos. Looks like a busy weekend for me!!!
     
  15. kelvin

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    Mr_P

    - a little unfair I think and here's why...

    Loewe is not an item which has been stocked by many HOF stores in past years, it's only in recent weeks that models such as the Aconda have found themselves into smaller stores, rather than just in the likes of Oxford Street and other flagship stores. Your negative comments are centred around rather in depth features of this set - I think it's quite probable that the staff in this particular store simply hadn't had the opportunity to play around with the set and figure out how to operate every single feature. This aside how many customers would actually come in and ask specifically about things such as PIP or PAT??? - Maybe they hadn't had the opportunity to read the operating instructions from cover to cover :rolleyes: It seems to me that you put them on the spot somewhat...

    Could it also be that you spoke to either a member of staff "covering" the department or a weekend sales assistant perhaps??

    I too work in a TV department at a HOF store and I was hired to do just that. There is no reason that I should be any less competent than a member of staff from a "specialist" store simply because I work in a different environment. Based on other dealers in our area I feel that the service offered by myself and my colleagues is second to none - I don't pretend to know everything, but if there is something I don't know then I'll do my best to find it out. Please don't tar us all with the same brush.

    This is not a personal attack on you, I just get frustrated by the stereotypical view that department stores cannot compete with specialists!!! Try not to take it the wrong way - just my opinion! :)

    Regards, Kelvin.
     
  16. Mr_P

    Mr_P
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    kelvinp,

    Fair enough comments BUT the HOF I visited is one of their flagship stores.

    Today I did go to a specialist store and yes I did ask some technical questions but I found the assistant willing to find out rather than the "Oh it doesn't do that, I can assure you of that" which I got from the HOF staff. Plus I think they have a more personal approach as they are only selling a particular item and hence have more of an interest in what they are selling. But that is only my opinion.

    However I do expect a high standard of service when I am going to be spending £2000 of my own money. Not to be told that I am wrong so bluntly. My comment was not meant to be stereotypical of people who work in department stores. In fact I have had numerous dealings with other stores where staff have been very helpful. However I do find that when generally when shops cater for the masses, the standard of service does go down.

    Maybe you are right and a general sales assistant was on duty but if you are talking about having the right staff on the right department, then yes it would make a difference between a sale or not. Put it this way, I will not be going back to that HOF in question to make a purchase. And that is my right isn't it. I just felt that after having made a trip to see the 9381, to be dealt in this way, was wasting my time.

    Anyway enough of what we think of staff who work in department/specialist shops etc, can anyone answer my RGB question, can you move and size the screen with an RGB source?
     
  17. kelvin

    kelvin
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    Mr_P - check your private messages.

    No hard feelings - everyone's entitled to their opinion :)

    Kelvin :D
     
  18. Wilbur

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    I've just mailed the Loewe helpline to find out whether the Articos' speaker can be used as a centre in a 5.1 set-up. Also trying to find out about repositioning th epicture from an RGB source. (My Articos recently arrived but I'm still deciding on a DVD player so havn't used the RGB inputs yet!)

    Will let you know when I hear back...
     
  19. Markster

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    > Plus with having a 36" Sony and getting used to that, dropping down to a 32" might be too much of a sacrifice.

    I hear ya. I have the Sony 36" with occasional scrolling bars, but i just can't bring myself to downgrade to a 32" so as i dont want to splash out on the 40" Loewe ill have to keep the sony ;-)
     
  20. Wilbur

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    Just heard back from Loewe. Apparently the TV speaker can only be used as the centre in a surround set-up if you buy the Concertos surround system (we might have guesed) or have the TV upgraded with the 5.1 board - TV then becomes the amp and you run speakers straight from the back. Neither of these is an ideal solution. I get the feeling there would be a way round this but, if I was a Loewe engineer I wouldn't let on as it would potnetially stop people buying more Loewe kit.

    Also... there is no picture correction facility for RGB sources.
     
  21. Mr_P

    Mr_P
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    Thanks Wilbur for the reply.

    I am hanging fire for a while on my replacement for my Sony 36". I don't think I could go down to a 32" so I am going to see what comes out in the next few months. With the summer here, who needs a TV!!!
     

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