Go dual Subwoofers!

Derek S-H

Distinguished Member
Okay, so there are a few Threads on here querying this, what to get and whether it's worth it. And I'm here to tell you just do it!:)

My room is 15 feet x 10 feet and my current Sub is a Monitor Audio Gold W15 - 650 watt amp (continuous, 1200 watts peak) and a 15" driver:

P1010151.JPG


No, it probably doesn't have the visceral slam of a SVS, but I live in a flat and have neighbours below me, so there's a limit in how far I want to push this.

I recently watched "Ready Player One" and really enjoyed it. The film features a famous vehicle chase known for its low bass frequencies, but the sequence seemed a bit lacking to me, which was disappointing.

Reading around on here, I thought that perhaps I needed an upgrade to something newer and more powerful, but it was suggested to me that maybe I ought to consider going dual, which I'd never thought about before (probably because I live in a flat with neighbours below me!).

One suggestion was to get rid of the W15 and start again with two Subs of the same brand, especially as it went out of production in 2018. More in hope than expectation, I went on Ebay and would you believe it, someone had just listed my exact same Sub! It was fate:

P1010150.JPG


I managed to procure it at a great price and it's in tremendous condition and hardly used. A Member kindly did a calculation of my room using REW and there was a massive null probably being caused by this culprit:

P1010152.JPG


It basically sucked all the bass out of the room at precisely the point where I needed it most - the MLP!

Both Subs have their own Room Correction built-in to address excess boom due to room boundaries, and I ran Audyssey on my Marantz SR7011 (which supports dual Sub connections, thankfully) and put on the chase sequence in "Ready Player One" again.

All I can say is WOW! The bass is just so much more room-filling, cleaner and smoother. There's a punch that was previously missing and you can no longer locate where it's coming from, which was mostly from the front, it just surrounds you now.

I just wanted to say thank you to @Mr Wolf, @steve sph, @Jester1066 for making such a persuasive case for going dual (you were right all along!) and especially @Gasp3621 for all his help and patience via PM with helping me set it all up.

If anyone is thinking of going dual, no matter how small your room is, don't hesitate, just do it!

I can't answer your query about what Subs to get nor how big they should be, but what I am saying is that it's the underlying principle of having dual Subs, and the tangible improvements that that brings, is all that matters.
 
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steve sph

Well-known Member
Glad it's worked out so well for you mate - I must admit I've never heard anyone who'd consider going single or, (perish the thought), subless after going dual.
Both music and movies improve immeasurably.
In fact I'd argue that adding a second sub is the single best upgrade you'll ever make.
 

Jase

Distinguished Member
Duals usually bring that extra bit of fun to the party. Well worth doing. :smashin:
 

JustinT350

Active Member
Good to hear, its probably going to be my next upgrade aswell when I can justify it.

I guess my concern is, to double up it'll be around £1k extra. Its a lot of money for a bit more bass.
 

Derek S-H

Distinguished Member
Good to hear, its probably going to be my next upgrade as well when I can justify it.

I guess my concern is, to double up it'll be around £1k extra. Its a lot of money for a bit more bass.
No, it's more than just a "bit more bass".

It's not just quantity, it's quality, and that's pretty hard to measure in monetary terms.

If you think about it, modern blockbusters feature ever more terrifying bass drops, and you're sharing that load between two Subs rather than just overloading one Sub.

I think it improves the system sound all round too. Honestly, there's no justification needed if you've got the space to accommodate and can afford it.
 

TB Rich

Active Member
If anyone is thinking of going dual, no matter how small your room is, don't hesitate, just do it!
Glad duals has worked for you, but that's more than a little hyperbolic. It's not always a blanket case of go duals, let's be pragmatic here; your room, seating, and available sub positions always dictates if it's worth it or not. And the smaller the room the more self evident this becomes because you're going to naturally be more restricted in where you and your equipment can locate.

I had for a short time dual BK400's, but there was no available position to me to get the second located in such a way it provided a benefit by supporting the first with bass in fill (all measured in REW). So I sold the 2nd. Now I might have more success with a couple of Micro 3000's in terms of positioning, but then they lack depth beyond 40hz really..... so no, the correct advice is DO hesitate, and approach with logic if 2 subs are feasible are not.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Sub is a Monitor Audio Gold W15 - 650 watt amp (continuous, 1200 watts peak) and a 15" driver:

No, it probably doesn't have the visceral slam of a SVS, but I live in a flat and have neighbours below me, so there's a limit in how far I want to push this.

It should be more or less similar level to SVS SB3000 so you are covered! :) Two 15"s is going hit hard and you aren´t even running them hotter yet so there should be lot more to come, also the low end could be further boosted with the EQ preset "movie" now after LEO and XT32. However i´m afraid the neighbour would come knocking door. 😅
 

Mr Wolf

Well-known Member
Its a lot of money for a bit more bass.
For me the benefit of going dual wasn't the extra quantity of bass but the extra quality of it - a smooth, even response and total lack of localisation. It was like the bass was suddenly just "in the room" and not coming from a speaker at all.
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
For me the benefit of going dual wasn't the extra quantity of bass but the extra quality of it - a smooth, even response and total lack of localisation. It was like the bass was suddenly just "in the room" and not coming from a speaker at all.
Same rationale for me. I also agree with @TB Rich - it certainly is about room, positioning etc. I'm lucky in as much that dual subs placed as they are for me, have the desired result. But appreciate that isn't always the case.
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
I just wanted to say thank you to @Mr Wolf, @steve sph, @Jester1066 for making such a persuasive case for going dual (you were right all along!)
You're welcome. Am pleased you're happy with the end result mate 👍🏼
 

Derek S-H

Distinguished Member
Glad duals has worked for you, but that's more than a little hyperbolic. It's not always a blanket case of go duals, let's be pragmatic here; your room, seating, and available sub positions always dictates if it's worth it or not. And the smaller the room the more self evident this becomes because you're going to naturally be more restricted in where you and your equipment can locate.

I had for a short time dual BK400's, but there was no available position to me to get the second located in such a way it provided a benefit by supporting the first with bass in fill (all measured in REW). So I sold the 2nd. Now I might have more success with a couple of Micro 3000's in terms of positioning, but then they lack depth beyond 40hz really..... so no, the correct advice is DO hesitate, and approach with logic if 2 subs are feasible are not.
Which is fair enough.

But I do qualify my original post in reply to @JustinT350:

"I think it improves the system sound all round too. Honestly, there's no justification needed if you've got the space to accommodate and can afford it."

I do recognise what you're saying, but I think I'm trying to make the point that if someone is hesitant or uncertain about the benefits, then don't be. Obviously, feel free to post queries on this Thread providing room dimensions, budget etc., but don't be afraid of the idea.

As you rightly point out, it didn't work out for you in your room, but at least you tried it to see. Based on my experience, I would say (under the right circumstances) that 2 Subs is definitely better than 1.
 
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JustinT350

Active Member
For me the benefit of going dual wasn't the extra quantity of bass but the extra quality of it - a smooth, even response and total lack of localisation. It was like the bass was suddenly just "in the room" and not coming from a speaker at all.
Yeah I think that's actually what I need.

I appreciate REW isn't the be all and end all but it's been fairly accurate for my room so far. I've used the simulator to add a second sub in various locations but it seems like even with duals I'll have some pretty significant nulls. I'll post a couple of graphs soon.

Daft question maybe, But would duals be better at the front of the room? I've got two rows of three, and my theory was with the back row sitting beside the sub (or subs!) they get a bit overpowered as the sub is tuned for the front row..
 

TB Rich

Active Member
Yeah I think that's actually what I need.

I appreciate REW isn't the be all and end all but it's been fairly accurate for my room so far. I've used the simulator to add a second sub in various locations but it seems like even with duals I'll have some pretty significant nulls. I'll post a couple of graphs soon.

Daft question maybe, But would duals be better at the front of the room? I've got two rows of three, and my theory was with the back row sitting beside the sub (or subs!) they get a bit overpowered as the sub is tuned for the front row..
Buy a UMIK-1 and take a REW sweep of the current sub you have, and then move the sub to each available position and take another sweep. It'll show you if a second sub would work and where it needs to be.

It's a great investment before splurging out on a second sub and hoping, and they are always eminently sellable if and when you don't need it any more.
 

JustinT350

Active Member
Aye I've already got a UMIK and tweaked my sub to get a fairly flat response already.

My rear row of seats, particularly the seat right next to the sub isn't great, as it can be quite boomy. So I was considering relocating it to the front of the room to suit the front row better (and not over power the rear)
 

Derek S-H

Distinguished Member
@JustinT350 - have a read of this if you haven't already:


I found it very useful.

As you saw from my pictures, my Subs are placed diagonally opposite each other (or near enough) and, according to the article, is one of the best locations.
 

TB Rich

Active Member
Aye I've already got a UMIK and tweaked my sub to get a fairly flat response already.

My rear row of seats, particularly the seat right next to the sub isn't great, as it can be quite boomy. So I was considering relocating it to the front of the room to suit the front row better (and not over power the rear)
It sounds like you have a big room if we're talking seating rows! Certainly not a small lounge at any rate! Almost unequivocally in your scenario 2 subs will be better and you will have the room to position them such that they supplment each other.

But moving and sweeping in position, gives you a free way to ratify that before purchase.
 

Nayfne

Distinguished Member
I went dual subs about 5 weeks ago, never looked back! Ad someone said, its not just the extra oomph, its that " fuller soundstage and coverage you get" sounds a lot smoother with no localisation.
 

Amar

Active Member
When going dual, is there any reason not to use the two same subs? Would it matter if they were different?
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
When going dual, is there any reason not to use the two same subs? Would it matter if they were different?

Same always if possible! In your case XTZ 12.17 Edge could be close enough if you must mix, but then again i would look other 1x12 Cinema as 2nd hand as they come up once in a while at classifieds for not much..
 

IWC Dopplel

Distinguished Member
A second sub was very worthwhile a third definitely and the fourth an 18 has bought everything on again on a number of levels

If you want to remove some inconsistencies add dynamics and slam in the bass you do need move air in more than one location
 

Mr Andy

Active Member
Has anyone been dissapointed in dual subs when positioning isn't a big problem? REW would suggest it wouldn't improve much from a single sub for a single listening position (sub is located mid point on the side wall).

I did play around with the vertical position in REW and came up with the best results being 1 each in the floor level front corners and building 2 in the loft firing down. But that is rather unlikely.
 

JustinT350

Active Member
Similar concerns here.

I'll post some graphs later from REW and why I am concerned I might just get more nulls in my system. I don't think I will but REW was surprisingly accurate for my first sub
 

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