Getting fed up with my Harmony Universal

ithorne

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Ever since I changed my TV system earlier this year my Logitech Harmony Universal remote has become less and less reliable/useful.

The problems are:

1) On powerup the TV selects the TV speakers not the AV/Soundbar - the sound bar is powered up and also putting out soun - so with the slight delay on the soundbar (50ms) it creates an echo!
2) I canbot add power on/power off commands for the sound bar into an ACTIVITY. They are there and work in the DEVICE
3) There is no way access the commands behind the “Action Menu” on the TV - im having trouble with HDR and need to change the Picture modes frequently as stuff is often too dark.

Can anyone help me find a fix ?

I need this stuff to work faultlessly as my wife and daughter are techno phobes.

Eithet or I’ll be selling it - and if I do that what do I buy ?


My Kit (with some detail as I’m not sure whats relevant)

TV Sony 55X85
SoundBar Sony XF9000 (On TV HDMI 3 and Soundbar “TV” socket, HDMI )
Bluray Sony S790 (ON TV HDMI 4)
Vifgin Media Tivo (On TV HDMI 2)
Roku Streaming Stick +. (On TV HDMI 1)

CEC/BraviaLink is off

Roku is powered by USB on TV
 
Ever since I changed my TV system earlier this year my Logitech Harmony Universal remote has become less and less reliable/useful.

The problems are:

1) On powerup the TV selects the TV speakers not the AV/Soundbar - the sound bar is powered up and also putting out soun - so with the slight delay on the soundbar (50ms) it creates an echo!
2) I canbot add power on/power off commands for the sound bar into an ACTIVITY. They are there and work in the DEVICE
3) There is no way access the commands behind the “Action Menu” on the TV - im having trouble with HDR and need to change the Picture modes frequently as stuff is often too dark.

Can anyone help me find a fix ?

I need this stuff to work faultlessly as my wife and daughter are techno phobes.

Eithet or I’ll be selling it - and if I do that what do I buy ?


My Kit (with some detail as I’m not sure whats relevant)

TV Sony 55X85
SoundBar Sony XF9000 (On TV HDMI 3 and Soundbar “TV” socket, HDMI )
Bluray Sony S790 (ON TV HDMI 4)
Vifgin Media Tivo (On TV HDMI 2)
Roku Streaming Stick +. (On TV HDMI 1)

CEC/BraviaLink is off

Roku is powered by USB on TV

I don't know your TV, but mine has a facility to choose between TV speakers or using Home Cinema/Soundbar? If you can, ensure that the Home Cinema option is selected. A workaround would be to just turn your TV speakers off, or the volume down to zero. This is a TV settings issue, not a Harmony issue as you obviously have the soundbar switched on with your TV which is correct.

Soundbar Power off/on I presume is included in your "Watch TV" activity? In which case it will be automatic. You need to go into "Device" to power on/off.

Beyond having a "menu" button on the Harmony, you are going to have to change the TV menu settings manually if it mirrors the way my Panny's menu system works. But you shouldn't be needing to change HDR settings regularly? Why not set up a different picture profile for HDR/SDR then just switch between the two?
 
Thanks @CaptainJames.

but mine has a facility to choose between TV speakers or using Home Cinema/Soundbar? If you can, ensure that the Home Cinema option is selected.

It’s one of the options hidden in the “Action Menu” i refered to. “Audio system” is selected, however this doesn’t stay on if the soundbar is off.

Soundbar Power off/on I presume is included in your "Watch TV" activity?

Yes, on starting the activity the soundbar powers on correctly and I can assign Power On/Power off to a button on the Harmony, but i cannot add Power On or Power Off to a Seuqunce. ( I want to do this as a work aroud to the speakers problem. If I power the soundbar off/then on the TV auto switches to AV System (soundbar))

PS. Just realised I cant add “Input selection” to a sequence either (i.e. In a sequence for my TV I cannot add “HDMI 1” as a step, yet that is an option in the device..
You need to go into "Device" to power on/off

Yes but why ?

Why not set up a different picture profile for HDR/SDR

I only have one custom slot and as far as I can tell I can’t assign a profile based on the TV resolution.
 
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It’s one of the options hidden in the “Action Menu” i refered to. “Audio system” is selected, however this doesn’t stay on if the soundbar is off.
That would normally only happen if HDMI/CEC is switched on somewhere in the chain. Does the Soundbar have a standby setting rather than completely off?

Yes, on starting the activity the soundbar powers on correctly and I can assign Power On/Power off to a button on the Harmony, but i cannot add Power On or Power Off to a Seuqunce. ( I want to do this as a work aroud to the speakers problem. If I power the soundbar off/then on the TV auto switches to AV System (soundbar))
OK I understand, but Harmony will not understand that as anything included in the activity will need to stay switched on for the activity to work (under normal circs)

Yes but why ?
As above. If it's required for an activity, there is not an option in the activity to turn one device off. Hence why you need to go into Device.

I only have one custom slot and as far as I can tell I can’t assign a profile based on the TV resolution.
No you can't assign on resolution, but you don't need to if you have two presets that you can otherwise set up as identical, so for example use "Normal" set up the same as Custom but brighter for HDR.
So on the Panny I have Pro 1 and Pro 2 set up identically apart from having no IFC switched on in Pro2, so I switch to Pro 2 for movies and Pro 1 for TV.
 
That would normally only happen if HDMI/CEC is switched on somewhere in the chain. Does the Soundbar have a standby setting rather than completely off?


My mistake. When the soundbar is powered on CEC/Bravialink is always activated (I can’t turn it off)

OK I understand, but Harmony will not understand that as anything included in the activity will need to stay switched on for the activity to work (under normal circs)

Thats unfortunate - on my previous Harmony One I could do that. I had sequnces that allowed me to ”reset” a setup e.g.

TVOn
HDMI 2
Amp On
Input “Sattelite”
Sky Box On

etc etc. It seems I can’t do that with the “new improved” ultimate 🤷‍♂️

So on the Panny I have Pro 1 and Pro 2 set up identically apart from having no IFC switched on in Pro2, so I switch to Pro 2 for movies and Pro 1 for TV.

Even if I could do this it is so many key strokes to swap. It‘s behind that “action menu” button, it wouldn’t fly...
 
My mistake. When the soundbar is powered on CEC/Bravialink is always activated (I can’t turn it off)


Ah, so that explains that then ! If you can fix this, then no need to worry about switching the soundbar off/on! Why can you not turn HDMI CEC off?? It is the spawn of the devil .

Thats unfortunate - on my previous Harmony One I could do that. I had sequnces that allowed me to ”reset” a setup e.g.

TVOn
HDMI 2
Amp On
Input “Sattelite”
Sky Box On

etc etc. It seems I can’t do that with the “new improved” ultimate 🤷‍♂️

As above. Switch off CEC and no need to mess around. You can customise activities , but switching devices on/off within the activity is not something that the Harmony would expect - An activity is just that - all included devices are considered as one - if you switch one off, then you might as switch all off as it;s no longer an activity ! The Devices option is the workaround


Even if I could do this it is so many key strokes to swap. It‘s behind that “action menu” button, it wouldn’t fly...

Fair enough, but why is HDR too dark? Is you TV a few years old ? LCD? To be frank, although they may be HDR capable, many "older" TVs are just not bright enough to do HDR very well.
 
The first thing to realise is that HDMI-CEC and Harmonys don’t work together.
Devices is used only for storage, not use.
Activities will control everything if set up correctly.
Sequences are less useful, imho.
 
The first thing to realise is that HDMI-CEC and Harmonys don’t work together.

I know, but in this instance I cannot turn it off. The soundbar needs the link to function. Or Sony insist it does

Activities will control everything if set up correctly.

Can you help me set it correctly ? Thats what I am looking for


Sequences are less useful, imho.

Yep. But they will help me make up for other shortcomings..

And my question was why are functions available in Devices but not in sequences (when in previous Harmony’s they were)
 
Hi mate, the way I use my harmony with a sony xf90 and Samsung soundbar Is to enable Bravialink, when creating any activity do not add the soundbar, use the Sony for audio Options within the activity wizard and allow it to turn the bar off and on via cec and control the volume. This may sound counterintuitive but I find it works flawlessy.
 
What are these functions?
 
This is your problem with HDR brightness:


Peak brightness (HDR)404 cd/m2404 cd/m2

The TV does not have the brightness capability to properly display HDR content - in fact SDR probably looks much better on it.
 
I know, but in this instance I cannot turn it off. The soundbar needs the link to function. Or Sony insist it does

But have you tried?
 
Ok. Ill try that thanks.
The ones I know about because I want to use them are:

On the xf9000 soundbar Power on, power off and power toggle are available on the device screens on the Harmony. They cannot be added to a sequence. They are not offered as an option when I try to build the seuqence.

It is the same for the TV. Power on, power off and power toggle as well as the direct access to various inputs (HDMI 1-4 etc) aren’t offered when building a sequence

There may be other’s but I havent experimented
 
But have you tried?
Yes, the option to turn off Bravialink is greyed out and if i try to access the setting a message appears on screen saying

47038A41-371B-4EA9-9DAA-EA96EADEF4A7.jpeg


I have to unplug the sound bar to disable it. As soon as I plug it back in and power up, its back to the above setting.
 
in fact SDR probably looks much better on it.
So how do I force SDR ? (Sorry, been struggling with this for a while - if turning off HDR fixes it then I will live with that. (And what is the brightness needed for “good” HDR viewing?}

EDIT: Ok I found out how to switch off HDR and you are right the picture is more watchable with it off, particulalry Drak scences such as most of “The Mandalorian”
 
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Power on and off commands are meant for use at the start and end of an activity.
 
Yes, the option to turn off Bravialink is greyed out and if i try to access the setting a message appears on screen saying

View attachment 1431366

I have to unplug the sound bar to disable it. As soon as I plug it back in and power up, its back to the above setting.
You need to turn off "Switch off HDMI devices with the TV". This will conflict with the Harmony Activity instruction to turn off the soundbar and could be the cause of the TV reverting to TV Speakers output.

I don't know why Bravia link is greyed out, it must be due to you using a Sony soundbar which auto connects to the Sony TV via Bravia link. The only solution to that would be to replace the Soundbar with a different manufacturer. Having "compulsory" HDMI CEC is never a good place to be in.
 
Power on and off commands are meant for use at the start and end of an activity.
Yes, I have already explained this to the OP. Harmony does not offer the option of power on/off of individual devices within an activity, because it assumes that all such devices need to remain switched on in order to maintain the functioning of the activity.

The access to power on/off via Devices is the workaround. I often use this, for instance if listening to Spotify via the Sky app I do not want the static visuals on screen, so just go into "Panasonic TV" under "Devices" and just pop the TV off leaving me with the just the sound from the AVR.
 
So how do I force SDR ? (Sorry, been struggling with this for a while - if turning off HDR fixes it then I will live with that. (And what is the brightness needed for “good” HDR viewing?}

You don't "force" either SDR or HDR. Programmes are broadcast/streamed/downloaded in the format flagged - it is usually safe to assume it will be in SDR unless specifically flagged as HDR. You can't change one from the other, the TV will automatically recognise what it is displaying and set itself accordingly. I don't know which sources you use, but Sky Q and Netflix both clearly flag their HDR programmes as such.

The problem with edge lit LCDs is that they do not output a bright enough picture to benefit from HDR, and unfortunately there is no minimum industry standard for HDR TVs to achieve in order to label themselves as HDR capable.

So your Sony outputs circa 400 nits maximum, an OLED can get away with circa 700-800 nits due to their deeper blacks and inherent better contrast, an LCD needs >1000 nits to display HDR to good effect - I believe that some of the latest Samsung QLEDs output >2000 nits.
 
Power on and off commands are meant for use at the start and end of an activity.

I can see that, however when things get out of kilter** it helpful to have access to these commands. As I said I create a sequence foreach activity that “forces” conditions to be right (TV ON, SOUNDBAR ON, SELECT HDMI 1 etc etc etc) I could do that on the old harmony One but not this Ultimate.

**EDIT: e.g. if someone uses the orignal remote by mistake..... Because so many settings are on the “Action Menu” and not accessibke to the Harmony we need to keep that around.
 
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The problem with edge lit LCDs is that they do not output a bright enough picture to benefit from HDR, and unfortunately there is no minimum industry standard for HDR TVs to achieve in order to label themselves as HDR capable.

My problem is My Roku streams me an HDR program (e.g. The Mandalorian) but my TV won’t display it properly (even though the Roku thinks it will!). So I end up with an unwatchable dark picture.

I found out how to turn off HDR and I can watch the program OK Now. Thanks.
 
Hi mate, the way I use my harmony with a sony xf90 and Samsung soundbar Is to enable Bravialink, when creating any activity do not add the soundbar, use the Sony for audio Options within the activity wizard and allow it to turn the bar off and on via cec and control the volume. This may sound counterintuitive but I find it works flawlessy.

Thanks again for this tip. I’ve tried it here and so far its working. Fingers crossed.
 
Thanks again for this tip. I’ve tried it here and so far its working. Fingers crossed.

Good stuff mate, I have ran mine this way for several months without issue, bar will always power on and off with TV and set itself appropriately for audio with volume control.

I don't know why Bravia link is greyed out, it must be due to you using a Sony soundbar which auto connects to the Sony TV via Bravia link. The only solution to that would be to replace the Soundbar with a different manufacturer. Having "compulsory" HDMI CEC is never a good place to be in.

It does the same with my samsung bar, i expect disabling CEC on the bar itself would be the play. The issue I always had which led me to this workaround was that the inputs with my bar are not discrete codes but rather cycled which when using as an activity would often result in it landing on the wrong input. Using CEC just for the soundbar resolved these kind of issues.
 
Good stuff mate, I have ran mine this way for several months without issue, bar will always power on and off with TV and set itself appropriately for audio with volume control.



It does the same with my samsung bar, i expect disabling CEC on the bar itself would be the play. The issue I always had which led me to this workaround was that the inputs with my bar are not discrete codes but rather cycled which when using as an activity would often result in it landing on the wrong input. Using CEC just for the soundbar resolved these kind of issues.

Yes it makes sense as a workaround not to include the soundbar in the watch TV activity with those circumstances, but rely on HDMI CEC instead. As a general rule of thumb though, CEC is to be avoided, particularly when using a Harmony as they tend not to play nicely.
 

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