Getting a payrise

[Exemplar]

Evening....

So yesterday I got some information accidentally and I have been stewing on it.

Transpires that, other than the apprentice we have, I earn the least..... By some 20% less than my nearest colleague.

Facts are that I bring in a lot of money to the company at a minimum of 38% margin, something I am very proud of especially when I don't consider myself to be sales person material.

Now I am aware that I took my post 18 months ago at a certain salary. For 6 months I have been asking for a raise and flatly refused.

So... My question is.. Can anyone offer a good, non confrontational way of asking for a raise? I have tried presenting the evidence to our MD. he admits I bring in more money and profit than most of my colleagues put together and that I will do tasks to keep our customers happy that other colleagues would not do (last summer I was elbow deep in rotting turkeys, blood and maggots... Don't ask!).

Anyone here got any good, helpful suggestions?

Ta.

 

[imightbewrong]

Get another offer.

 

[DrapedInDarkness]

I had a similar situation a few years back, I had a chat with the manager about it and told him point blank that they were insulting me considering what I was doing and that if my renumeration was not increased I would leave, he did not take it seriously and I walked out, I got a phone call two days later from personnel asking if I was off sick, repeated that I had walked out due to my conversation with manager and that evening had another phone call with a bump of 23%, which took me to a healthy point just about where I wanted to be.

 

[RobM]

Talk honestly with your boss, explain why you deserve a payrise. Do note that 'because he earns more' is not a reason to give you more. Rather, focus on your performance compared to others, compared to your objectives and job description and anything else that shows why you should earn more than you were offered. If you're simply doing the job you were asked to do, forget it. But if you are doing more, asking for more isn't unreasonable.

This has to be your starting point. If your boss isn't willing to give you more, you then have a couple of options:

1 - Ask why the answer is no and what you have to do to change that. Ask for objectives to hit that will then lead to a pay rise and do everything you can to hit that as a minimum, exceed it if you can.

2 - Find another job. Even if you don't take it, get the offer and walk into your boss with that offer, showing the offered wage and ask again for a rise. If it's still no, you have another job to go to. Don't do this before talking about it though, as you'll just look an ungrateful and self-centered ****** who has no loyalty to those around you, so why should anybody care about you?

If you don't start by talking honestly you have no leg to stand on later down the line, when it comes up in a more negative way (leaving, ****** off, arguments etc). Put yourself in your boss' shoes; how can you remedy a problem you didn't know was a problem? Any boss with even a little bit of experience will have had this conversation many times, you won't be the first nor the last.

 

[Ian J]

I had a similar situation a few years back, I had a chat with the manager about it and told him point blank that they were insulting me considering what I was doing and that if my renumeration was not increased I would leave, he did not take it seriously and I walked out, I got a phone call two days later from personnel asking if I was off sick, repeated that I had walked out due to my conversation with manager and that evening had another phone call with a bump of 23%, which took me to a healthy point just about where I wanted to be.

I wouldn't recommend that course of action to anybody as you were very lucky to demand a rise, break the terms of your employment contract by walking out when you were refused and taken back on again as if I were your boss I wouldn't have had you back again under any circumstances

 

[DrapedInDarkness]

I wouldn't recommend that course of action to anybody as you were very lucky to demand a rise, break the terms of your employment contract by walking out when you were refused and taken back on again as if I were your boss I wouldn't have had you back again under any circumstances

It was a few years back and I appreciate I got lucky, but.....I did the jobs of three people and far more efficiently and accurately than they had been doing it, I knew my value and I was not prepared to keep up that status quo any longer.

It all starts with a blunt honest chat and sometimes you make a stand.

 

[imightbewrong]

Yep that is pretty mad - only go for that if you are happy to end up with no job

You need to look at it from the manager's point of view - questions like:

- is this guy worth it?
- if I refuse, will he actually leave?
- if not, will his productivity drop?
- could he get a better offer somewhere else? what is the market doing?
- are there other companies in the area?
- have *I* had a payrise recently? if not, I am less sympathetic (One of the guys where I work is a manager and he hasn't had a payrise for five years - you can imagine how he reacts when people ask for one )

 

[nheather]

It's all very well saying 'get another offer' or 'leave' but in most sectors the market just insn't that bouyant.

But at the same time, that doesn't mean you have to take everything and just be grateful you have a job.

If your boss is the reasonable type I would ask to have a discussion. Politely explain your position. In particular that you know that you are being paid 20% less than your nearest colleague. Ask him to explain and justify the difference.

That employees don't know what each other's pay is, is a very powerful tool for the management but conversely it can be very embarrassing when it becomes known.

You might find that he will feign ignorance and agree to sort it out rather than explain why the company is doing it.

Cheers,

Nigel

 

[robel]

you should definitely look at alternative offers. See whats out there, whats on offer and how much they would pay. Knowing that other jobs are available and that they would pay you more will put you in a position of strength in terms of you being able to negotiate with confidence.

As others have said only talk about what you do and so well for the company and that you think its reasonable that your hard work and proven results should be recognized.

Ask the MD where he see's you in 3-5 years time, within the company.

Show confidence and dont under sell yourself.

 

[rousetafarian]

From experience, please ensure they value your worth, reinforce the efforts you add to the business and ask nicely. Good people are hard to come by in business, and if they don't value you (and you feel disconcerted) then push the button and ask them if they could function as well without you.

It's amazing how they will flex if you threaten to change their working dynamics and structure. Are you pivotal or indispensable? Either way make sure you feel valued and confident in your earning capacity, the rest will follow.

 

[imightbewrong]

It's all very well saying 'get another offer' or 'leave' but in most sectors the market just insn't that bouyant.

That was very much meant in the comment.

 

[imightbewrong]

Also worth checking the validity of your 'information' - salaries are not normally acidentally bandied about. And the manner you came by it may affect how you can use it in 'negotiations'.

Have you had a pay rise since starting? Do the other apprentices have the same (or worse) experience than you on paper? (i.e. pre-this company).

 

[Steven]

Get another offer.

Agreed. Do not raise a bluff unless you are prepared for it to be called

It all starts with a blunt honest chat and sometimes you make a stand.

Still imparting your personal circumstances on somebody else's personal circumstances. The information we can discern from this thread is that the OP is being paid less than colleagues doing less. With respect to some of the posts, there remains a difference between hard working and indispensable. It is an employer's market and you have to judge against an employer knowing there are ten guys outside who would do the same job for less, albeit unproven

 

[Exemplar]

Gents,

Have done a lot of thinking and looking at similar, local positions ( who knew that there were so many opportunities in Newark!). There is a position where the person spec matches mine and is £5k per annum better paid.

To answer a question I have not had a pay rise in 18 months. I have had 3 reviews where I have been verbally told a pay rise is to happen, but it hasn't. Each time I have asked him directly for a raise he says that it's not going to happen.

My boss is a great guy and I do put the effort in as I enjoy my job hence I do some horrible things!

Thanks all for the input.

 

[DrapedInDarkness]

Still imparting your personal circumstances on somebody else's personal circumstances.

Have I offended you somehow to make such a comment?

Gents,

Have done a lot of thinking and looking at similar, local positions ( who knew that there were so many opportunities in Newark!). There is a position where the person spec matches mine and is £5k per annum better paid.

To answer a question I have not had a pay rise in 18 months. I have had 3 reviews where I have been verbally told a pay rise is to happen, but it hasn't. Each time I have asked him directly for a raise he says that it's not going to happen.

My boss is a great guy and I do put the effort in as I enjoy my job hence I do some horrible things!

Thanks all for the input.

Good luck matey

 

[KelvinS1965]

Are you pivotal or indispensable?

No one is indispensable, even the CEO (or especially the CEO?). Anyone that thinks they are might get a rude awakening.

Best of luck to the OP going for the other job for an extra £5k.

 

[nheather]

With respect to some of the posts, there remains a difference between hard working and indispensable.

In my long experience, salary differentials between similar staff and roles has nothing to do with ability, how hard you work etc. but the negotiated deal when you joined.

Example

Employee A was offered £20k and accepted it

A similar employee B was offered £20k but rejected it saying he wanted £25k. After negotiation he was offered £24k.

Neither employee A nor B have received a pay rise (despite promises) in the last 2 years because times are hard and the employer thinks he can justifiy keeping salaries static.

So in that respect, the employer is treating them equally, and demonstrably so.

But the nett result is that employee B, who may not have turned out as good or hard working as employee A is on a 20% higher salary.


Likewise, you will find that loyalty isn't often rewarded. It is typical to find those with the most successful careers change emploers on a regular basis because the best ever time you will have to influence your salary is when a prospective employer has decided that they want you. Being accomodating, being loyal, staying with the same employer for years on end is rarely rewarded.

Cheers,

Nigel

 

[ldoodle]

Get another offer.

This. When I asked for one a few years ago they asked me to do this. So I went job hunting...

Ended up with a 25%ish rise

EDIT: Doing this requires that you have something critical they want to retain and quite simply how much they're willing to pay to retain it (i.e. they might have a max just like you have a min)

I could have very well been told to go for that job...

 

[ldoodle]

The information we can discern from this thread is that the OP is being paid less than colleagues doing less.

But wouldn't that depend on 'who' they are?

For example Employee A could be 35 with 15-20 years experience in that field who does 5 tasks a day, and gets paid £30k.

Employee B could be a junior doing the same job, but double the amount, and getting paid £20k.

That to me is correct. As has been said already you can't just say I want a rise because X is earning more.

 

[Ste7en]

I think after only 18 months starting to complain about what others are being paid is a bit off. If you weren't happy with the salary at the time you shouldn't have taken the job.

Keep up the good work and see what happens. You've already planted the seed.

Comparing salaries with colleagues will only bring you down. I know

 

[swiftpete]

My mate has just had 3 interviews and got offered all 3 jobs. When he told his work he was going, they offered him a 30% pay increase. Do this.

 

[nheather]

I think after only 18 months starting to complain about what others are being paid is a bit off.

That's not really fair. You get offered a job, the salary seems okay, you assume that is what the company pays so you accept.

You continue happy in your ignorance, a bit peeved that there are no pay rises but times are hard.

And then you find out that your peers are on salaries that are at least 20% higher.

I would be peeved and I don't see how he could have known this at the time of accepting the offer.

Cheers,

Nigel

 

[imightbewrong]

I would be peeved and I don't see how he could have known this at the time of accepting the offer.

Isn't it a bit like going back to a shop and demanding a refund because you found out someone else bought the same thing 20% cheaper? Comparing to other people's salaries is dicey ground IMO - I would be justify it on my own terms. I've done a few crazy stunts in my time, but I would never go in to a manager and say I've just found out someone else's salary and I want a raise.

 

[Mr_Wistles]

My mate has just had 3 interviews and got offered all 3 jobs. When he told his work he was going, they offered him a 30% pay increase. Do this.

I did the same thing this time last year when my contract was coming to an end. My boss would not pull the trigger and commit.

I got offered 3 new jobs (at the rate I wanted), had a meeting with him, tabled the offers from the other companies and said that if he did not commit I would be leaving on Friday. I got the raise by the end of the day.

 

[Mr_Wistles]

Isn't it a bit like going back to a shop and demanding a refund because you found out someone else bought the same thing 20% cheaper? Comparing to other people's salaries is dicey ground IMO - I would be justify it on my own terms. I've done a few crazy stunts in my time, but I would never go in to a manager and say I've just found out someone else's salary and I want a raise.

I agree, the powers that be don't like people discussing their salary. I remember bringing it up in my first job at Citibank when I was 22 and HR came down on me like a ton of bricks.

Much better to say "I have seen this job exactly the same as what I do here paying X" (X being the amount that your colleague earns), I would also inflate X so that he may think he is saving money by paying you what you want.