Question General Question

Discussion in 'General TV Discussions Forum' started by Djuganight, Jul 24, 2018.

  1. Djuganight

    Djuganight
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2015
    Messages:
    295
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Location:
    Portugal
    Ratings:
    +69
    Hi Guys,

    Just a question to clarify something regarding TV Viewing angles.

    I have an old but absolutely fantastic Philips 42PFL8404 and a newer and smaller Philips 24" (don't know the model) in the Kitchen.

    The Philips 42PFL8404 was the main TV for the past 8 years but in March, I replaced it for a Samsung 55MU6105. Big Mistake!

    Yesterday I finally manage to sell the Samsung and because of such bad experience and to be so let down I'm planning to open my pockets and buy an Philips 65Oled873 or an LG OLED65C8. But to be honest I would like to buy something cheaper but with good quality, great image and not big issues with viewing angles such as the Samsung.

    Now my question is, why I don't have any issues with viewing angles with my 2 Philips and the Samsung was absolutely hideous?

    My Philips TV's are ok no matter the angle and even if I stand at their side. They are bloody amazing comparing with the new Samsung. How is this possible and what would be the cheaper recommendation in alternative to an OLED? Acceptable viewing angles, great image and smart TV?

    Thank you in advance and regards
     
  2. sagaris99

    sagaris99
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2018
    Messages:
    679
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    Berkshire
    Ratings:
    +433
    Chances are that the Philips may be using IPS panels, especially likely given the small(er) sizes on tvs. Samsung traditionally use VA panels, which are brighter with better contrast, but drop off once we get to 25 degrees from centre either way. As well as that, the MU6100 series was Samsung entry level 4k - it was never going to blow you away, especially from an angle.

    IPS remains the cheaper alternative to OLED, with better viewing angles - LG's nano cell SuperUHD Tv's retain the colour and contrast up to 60 degress either way. All of the new Panasonic range (FX series) are using IPS panels, actually produced for them by LG Display.

    For a 65 non oled with decent viewing angles, you'd be looking at something like the LGSK8100 or LGSK9500, or from Pana the FX750 but at the moment the prices aren't much lower than the OLEDs. I'd go with your gut and go up to oled, and my preference would be to the LG - seeing as the Philips is fairly well reviewed but doesn't really contest for a top spot.
     
  3. Djuganight

    Djuganight
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2015
    Messages:
    295
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Location:
    Portugal
    Ratings:
    +69
    This Samsung had PLS panel with a contrast ratio of around 1000:1.
    All other sizes of this model have VA panel with a contrast ratio of around 4500:1.
    Big differences but the fact remains that I was only able to get a acceptable image if I sat immediately in front.
    My living room is a wide rectangular shape and the TV sits on one of the top walls. The sofas are on each side reason why the importance of viewing angles.
    Never in my life though about paying so much for a tv but this samsung really marked me the wrong way.
    I like the Android OS and considering a quality/price ratio I was also considering the Sony 65XF9005 but although seems to be a great performer, the downside is exactly the viewing angles. Reviews say that as soon as we move from the sweetspot colours degrade and also the blooming gets very noticeable.

    I think that when we decide to open the pockets, the decision gets haven harder than when we have a very limited budget.

    Just finding a way to make a good and balances deal.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2018
  4. generalgizmo

    generalgizmo
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2015
    Messages:
    675
    Products Owned:
    3
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    64
    Location:
    Watford
    Ratings:
    +339
    I'd probably go with the lg oled or to save cash try looking at a 2017 model.. (I myself have a Panasonic ez952 oled from a Pioneer and it's great) but... if your looking to spend thst sort of money always go check the tv's for yourself as one person's recommendation might not suit yours..also in a decent store ..ie.. Richer sounds.. sevenoaks, musical images or somewhere independent as they'll let you check it out, picture settings, lighting conditions etc, rather than watch a 4k usb plugged in with picture on dynamic on a bright shop floor..
     
  5. Djuganight

    Djuganight
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2015
    Messages:
    295
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Location:
    Portugal
    Ratings:
    +69
    LG seems the safest bet but I would really like to see the Philips in person but is not available in shops around here (Portugal).

    Philips OLEDS can be purchased in shops but they have to order from the manufacturer and takes 2 to 3 weeks to deliver. Not a problem for me and I must confess that I consider a plus knowing that comes directly from the manufacturer.

    Honestly, I don't understand what the hell is Philips doing regarding the TV market, EU wide and not just in my country. They are completely rolled over by competition, just minor presence in the shops, etc etc. They must have either little children or very elderly and outdated people taking care of the TV marketing of this extremely dynamic market.

    Please forgive me the rant but I really like Philips, which for me has the most reliable products and just cannot understand why is this overwhelming relaxed marketing posture.

    Anyway, in person I am able to find LG and Sony oleds TV's almost in every shop.
    Being an OLED, the image will be great regardless the Brand, obviously with some differences from brand to brand, but nothing that really can harm an average consumer.

    Between the LG OLED65C8 and the Philips 65OLED873, my doubts are:

    LG OLED65C8
    1. seems to be the safest bet and the one that is more future proof
    2. Compatible with all HDR formats
    3. Quick smart TV although very limited

    Philips 65OLED873
    1. Being just a bigger brother from a 2017 set (55POS9002), can't stop feeling that it was already outdated when was launched
    2. Less HDR format compatibility
    3. Slower smart TV but the best and more complete. Android is a proper OS, why? Kodi, Stremio, Modbro, endless endles endless of other options and not restricted to the limited apps like WebOS or Tizen
    4. Ambilight!!!! OMG I love it

    Resuming, feeling that the Philips seems outdated and less future proof is my main concern. I do not want to spend +3000euros on a TV that will be obsolete/outdated in a year, or so.

    Apart from this concern, I am all for Philips....
     
  6. generalgizmo

    generalgizmo
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2015
    Messages:
    675
    Products Owned:
    3
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    64
    Location:
    Watford
    Ratings:
    +339
    Little children or old people looking after tv market..:rotfl: that was funny...
    Ambilight... could have an led strip lighting behind the tv of your choice without buying said tv for that feature.. try the Sony and LG you may like them..Agree the lg will be most future proofed..
    Myself I auditioned the Sony, LG and Panasonic early this yr.. in a richersounds (UK shop) if you have independent store in Portugal even better as find they're more helpful and try please the customer rather than huge stores not willing to change the setting on the tv false bright judder picture, but want you to buy it..
    I came back and bought the Panasonic as the picture was so cinematic like the pioneer kuro but better and picture is all I was concerned about no apps bothered me just blurays 1080p and 4khdr.. apart from maybe YouTube or Netflix.. it is definitely worth checking out the tv's even if you like the apps or future proofing in case the picture doesn't float your boat... I would never buy a tv blind or just on a recommendation.
     
  7. mike7

    mike7
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2005
    Messages:
    4,949
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Norfolk
    Ratings:
    +618
    "Apart from this concern, I am all for Philips...."

    Philips TVs have not been manufactured by the parent company for some time. Philips decided to drop out of the domestic market several years ago to concentrate on lighting and medical electronics. The licence to manufacture under the brand name has passed through 2 companies to my knowledge. They were TPV, a Chinese manufacturer, which now has the full ownership of TV manufacture under the company name TP Vision. Funai are licensed to sell the brand in the USA, but I'm not sure if they actually manufacture anything. I find it very unlikely that their current range of OLEDs is made to order and delivered 'directly from the manufacturer' as supposed.

    Like all OLED manufacturers they are governed by the availability and price of the OLED screens which are exclusively manufactured by LG. The minority appeal of Ambilight probably keeps the brand name alive. The current ranges may be perfectly OK but I'd always be a bit wary about after sales service if anything goes wrong especially where brand names are 'farmed out' which is a very common practice.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2018
  8. Djuganight

    Djuganight
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2015
    Messages:
    295
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Location:
    Portugal
    Ratings:
    +69
    Well, when someone is paying thousands for a TV, the image cannot be all that matters.

    Image is in fact important, but these days what gives most use to the image is the built-in apps, such as Netflix, Youtube + many others only available on Android OS.

    The biggest downside of the LG in my opinion is the the WebOS, as it's the OS with less available apps.

    If I was able to install third party apps on WebOS, such as KODI, Stremio and so on, it would be great, but that is only possible with an OS like Android, windows, etc.

    I ruled out the Sony AF8 because I simply can't feel any emapthy with this brand.

    I look at Sony like something from the 80's. Their OLED are more expensive even though they are also more limitations than the competition. Sold with an awful IR Remote control that looks a brick from another century, only 2 high bandwith ports, the Android OS is indeed badly integrated, at least compared with other brands that uses this OS, and so on.

    The perfect world would be an LG C8 with Ambilight and Android OS

    Really an hard decision....
     
  9. sagaris99

    sagaris99
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2018
    Messages:
    679
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    Berkshire
    Ratings:
    +433
    Interesting that for you, the biggest downside is what most regard as LG's golden egg. I get what you’re saying about third party apps, but how often does the regular consumer use anything outside of iPlayer, Netflix, Amazon and YouTube etc. Most are unaware of Kodi, and those that know are aware that it isn’t normally used for legal purposes (hence on manufacturers os such as Tizen, WebOS and Firefox it’s not available). You can always mirror to the screen as well, from a laptop or Android phone (or Apple TV) or use an Amazon fire stick to install kodi too.

    I totally agree with you that the TV is not just the picture - it’s the sound, the OS, quality of build, futureproofing both hardware and software, the 'feeling' you get when using it - and what’s great about the Tv market is that the perfect package doesn’t exist. The best tv is what works for you. Generally the LG comes out on top as the best all around tv, but it’s not perfect.
     
  10. generalgizmo

    generalgizmo
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2015
    Messages:
    675
    Products Owned:
    3
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    64
    Location:
    Watford
    Ratings:
    +339
    Yes totally understand reason why you have to try the other sets in person it's alot of money your parting with so need to be sure... The Sony is great for the sound if you don't have a dedicated setup.. But.. I would say though that there probably are lots of people out there who will buy a tv just for the picture... although the apps do help... it's what I did with the Panasonic.. And my previous Pioneer.. as I'm quite pedantic about things..
    As mentioned before there are also lighting options to be added to any tv if you want something to resemble the phillips ambilight..
    Then you truly can have the best of both worlds.. the tv you want with the apps And picture and the lighting.. :smashin:
     
  11. Djuganight

    Djuganight
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2015
    Messages:
    295
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Location:
    Portugal
    Ratings:
    +69
    Just saw that the Philips 55POS9002 are selling at 1.199euros on two big shops around here. What you think?
    Although I am aiming for a 65" this deal is tempting.
    This tv does only supports basic HDR and HLG right?

    The OLED803 is already showing on Philips web site ;)
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2018
  12. sagaris99

    sagaris99
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2018
    Messages:
    679
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    Berkshire
    Ratings:
    +433
    Good price, but I can’t believe a B7 55 is much different to that price wise, and the B7 blows it away

    Yes, only HDR10 and HLG. No DV, DA, HDR10+ or Technicolour HDR. Nice price but I’d leave it.

    Stay looking for a 65
     
  13. Djuganight

    Djuganight
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2015
    Messages:
    295
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Location:
    Portugal
    Ratings:
    +69
    The LG OLED65B7V is selling at 1999euros
    I think it was already updated with all the latest options, such was webos 4.0, DV, HDR10+ and Technicolour HDR correct?
     
  14. zeppelino

    zeppelino
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2018
    Messages:
    3,925
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    134
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +1,203
    Not hdr10+. And I wouldn’t be too concerned with Technicolour (yet)
     
  15. Djuganight

    Djuganight
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2015
    Messages:
    295
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Location:
    Portugal
    Ratings:
    +69
    Would it be a good bet for the next years?
     
  16. sagaris99

    sagaris99
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2018
    Messages:
    679
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    Berkshire
    Ratings:
    +433
    Yes yes and yes - Technicolour will be useful in the not too distant future, but it doesn’t hurt to have it now.

    It may not have HDR10+ but arguably its useless at the moment anyway. Besides, the HDR effect picture mode uses the same computer algorithm that HDR10+ does, so it gets pretty close
     
  17. sagaris99

    sagaris99
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2018
    Messages:
    679
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    Berkshire
    Ratings:
    +433

    If you can get the B7 at a great price, go for it.... if not, might be worth waiting for the C8 to drop instead
     
  18. Djuganight

    Djuganight
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2015
    Messages:
    295
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Location:
    Portugal
    Ratings:
    +69
    An image says more than a thousand words and below you can see the reason why I sold My Samsung after 3 months and I am looking to buy a high end TV. The disappointment was immense....
    The first is from a Samsung 55MU6105 which I bought to replace my 10 years old Philips 42PFL8404 from the second image.
    Images are taken from the same seating position, e.g, left side way.
    Colour quality and viewing angle is night and day.
    Philips looks like an OLED, even after so many years. This is absolute quality!


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2018
  19. Djuganight

    Djuganight
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2015
    Messages:
    295
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Location:
    Portugal
    Ratings:
    +69
    Went to a shop and lost my head and end up buying the LG OLED55C8. End of the torture ;)
     
  20. georgijlv

    georgijlv
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2018
    Messages:
    51
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    11
    Location:
    Latvija
    Ratings:
    +15
    Congratulations ! Next step android tv box ,I recommend nvidia shield , or cheaper ugoos am3, both support auto frame rate feature
     
  21. Djuganight

    Djuganight
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2015
    Messages:
    295
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Location:
    Portugal
    Ratings:
    +69
    I had a couple of Beelink's and ATM I have the Xiaomi Mi Box, which is actually a great little box and up for the task, but since it was updated to Android 8 is full of bugs.

    The number of apps of WebOS is very very limited.
    Samsung Tyzen was limited, but far better than the LG app store.
    Nothing like an Android OS and that is a fact and this LG app store is extremely poor.
    There is the Netflix, YouTube and the apps to stream IPTV and all the rest is just junk.

    I consider myself an advanced user and what I can say is that LG really have to step up and is really behind the competition.
     
  22. sagaris99

    sagaris99
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2018
    Messages:
    679
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    Berkshire
    Ratings:
    +433
    Not to say I disagree with you, but what more can you want from a TV OS? Advanced user or not, but beyond iplayer etc, Netflix, Amazon, rakuten, nowtv and Sky, iptv, plex and Spotify, what more does one need? In a very small amount of cases I could see android tv being more useful, but 99% of the customer base don’t need any more than that.
     
  23. Djuganight

    Djuganight
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2015
    Messages:
    295
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Location:
    Portugal
    Ratings:
    +69
    Amazon, Rakuten, SKY, etc etc etc is not applicable to Portugal or they are useless for us here. Here we have our own cable provider apps (MEO, NOS, etc.) which are not included on Samsung and LG OS's. Android is.
    Also, Android gives you the ability to install a ton of other apps for streaming content, movies, games, etc etc etc.
    As I said, I am an advanced user and WebOS smart TV/app store is beyond poor.

    But the best way to reply to your doubt is with a question.
    Do you have a smartphone or a tablet, regardless the OS, or have you ever used an Android device before?
    If you do, it will easily reply to your question "but what more can you want from a TV OS?"
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2018
  24. sagaris99

    sagaris99
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2018
    Messages:
    679
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    Berkshire
    Ratings:
    +433
    Fair enough, but having spent 8 months in Portugal i do remember that the smart tv features were lacking across the board (granted this was 3 years ago)

    I’ve only used android since 2012 yes, in both phones and tablet, and studied Computer science where I specialised in app development for android. I can see with my requirements that android tv would be useful, but largely the most people want is Netflix, Amazon and YouTube, and country specific catch up services - generally.

    As I said, I wasn’t disagreeing with you, but I guess I look at it from the perspective of the manufacturer- why go to the huge effort of providing apps for the 1% when a small effort will satisfy 99%? Worst case, load the app on a phone or tablet and mirror to the screen. Tizen, WebOS and Android all support this. I wouldn’t mind if android tv on Sony or Phillips was good, but it’s far from acceptable. Tried it myself in a store on separate TVs and crashed both times.
     
  25. Djuganight

    Djuganight
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2015
    Messages:
    295
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Location:
    Portugal
    Ratings:
    +69
    Considering a full package, I now see that the Philips is by far the best option.
    Aparent great image throughout, the best smart TV capabilities and comes with 2 remotes.
    Sad I could not see it in person so I was not going to buy such a pricey device without seeing.

    I rulled out Sony right from the start because I find unaceptable a TV that costs +€1.000 with IR remote and looking like a brick from stoneage.

    LG, great TV but if someone is buying a SMART TV, not just to watch broadcast TV but to also play around, a TV with android is the only option. Period!
    This is my advice.

    If someone is buying a TV with great image and some sort of smart features, any OLED is good enough.
     
  26. Mane UK

    Mane UK
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2018
    Messages:
    257
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Hertfordshire
    Ratings:
    +62
    For the record the Philips 42PFL8404 Had a sharp pva panel (it was a long time ago, so my memory could be faulty, but that doesn't happen often ;))

    Ambilight is very much not like putting random led strips behind the TV, that's like saying you can mimic surround sound by putting a whitenoise generator behind you! :D
    Ambilight is a zero-delay surround lighting, it's content specific so doesn't enhance some things as much as others. Imagine that your your protagonist walks into a forest, your whole room becomes that forest, a walk on the beach you get blue skies and a sandy bottom, driving along you get the sun-dappling in the room - it seems like a distracting novelty to some people at first, or a pointless feature to those with narrow peripheral vision but once you're used to it a tv without it seems far away and boxed in ..
    Stuff like dreamscreen does mimic the effect, but it's costly, not as versatile, and can have a delay.

    I have the Philips 8602, quantum-dot, android and 3-sided ambilight - I was fully intending to buy the 9002, because I prefer the picture and motion over LG OLED sets, plus ambilight. the 8602 has inferior blacks, but superior colour definition, doesn't suffer black crush the way the OLED does, and gives full colour-volume long after the oled clips out.

    OLED looks great, with those baseline blacks no question, but for my requirements the quantum dot set is a better picture.

    Also I agree with your android statement, its a lot of fun to mess around with.
    I recommend these sets to anyone not in the UK, where we are currently waiting for some sort of certification issues to be resolved so that we can have our next firmware update - it's been a long time, and there are some related problems.

    I could write about TPV and how they used to make Philips TV sets prior to the re-licensing, how Philips technical and R&D people were tuped as part of the deal, and how the whole thing worked, but it's not relevant really - all that is relevant here is that Philips (or TPV if you like) have some of the best guys in the industry for image processing - you might think that you turn all that stuff off but it includes the whole signal path, the way the hdmi input is converted into a picture, stream decompression, everything - and there is a lot involved.
    LG made a huge deal about the 2018 processor in adverts this year because of how their 2017 OLEDs fared against the Sony and Philips competition - its an improvement, but still not quite there.

    Edit
    I waffled on for ages and didn't mention viewing angles! It's good, very slight colour washout, with blacks greying a little and notable halo - the OLED is superior for both horizontal and vertical off-axis viewing, but even from a big horizontal angle regular people* have been shocked and impressed

    *the kind of people who don't know about TV calibrators or frequent AV forums
     
  27. Djuganight

    Djuganight
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2015
    Messages:
    295
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Location:
    Portugal
    Ratings:
    +69
    I agree with you.

    The Philips Ambilight system is superior than a 3rd party strip led light.

    To be perfectly honest I lived with my Philips 42PFL8404 for the past 10 year and never realised any problems of blooming, etc etc, until start reading this everywhere.

    Now I look at the TV and see blooming everywhere and all sorts of other defects related with lighting and it still looks a tremendous good TV. I simply cannot say anything wrong about this TV. Is simply great after so many year and comparing with the best out there.

    On the other end, I look at my new OLED and the image is just stunning but I must confess that the inky black does need some getting used. I say this because someone that wishes to save some money, a good led TV is a great option.

    Regular people, like me, can be very well served with a good LED TV.

    I am not entirely convinced with OLED image and I do miss that brightness that is characteristic of LED TV's, call it blooming or whatever.

    Here in Portugal, don't allow us to return things just because we are unhappy, otherwise I seriously considering replacing it for a Philips LED.
    Since I move from Philips to Samsung and now to LG I no longer was 100% happy, that is the fact.

    I go further, Philips, the simplicity of perfection! I regret the day I left you Philips. Sorry! I’m a fan, period eheheheh
     
  28. Tim2049

    Tim2049
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2018
    Messages:
    516
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    Harrogate
    Ratings:
    +444

    "Image is in fact important, but these days what gives most use to the image is the built-in apps, such as Netflix, Youtube + many others"

    Important in what way? Pretty much all the TVs have these apps, so why such emphasis on this when choosing what tv to buy?

    Fair bit of hyperbole regarding the remote control and Android as well. Seems pretty common! Guess what, in day to use, both are absolutely fine and never even cross my mind. That anyone could consider these two 'hindrences' as deal-breakers is as bemusing as it is baffling...
     

Share This Page

Loading...