General Election 2019

Who will you be voting for

  • Labour

    Votes: 43 19.5%
  • Conservative

    Votes: 95 43.2%
  • Brexit party if they run

    Votes: 21 9.5%
  • Lib dems

    Votes: 37 16.8%
  • SNP

    Votes: 11 5.0%
  • Greens

    Votes: 8 3.6%
  • DUP

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 5 2.3%

  • Total voters
    220
  • This poll will close: .

klaxhu

Well-known Member
why stop at 16? Why not give vote to 12, 13, 14 and 15 year olds? A line has to be drawn somewhere and 18 seems as good a place as any. ALthough there may well be some 16 yo who are intelligent eniough to decide who to vote for, most are not and don't have a clue.
Why? If you say something with this conviction you also have to explain why you think it's 18 and not 17 or 16.
This "you have to draw a line somewhere" sounds a lot like "we need to get brexit done". Doesn't mean anything, really.
 

Bigfingers

Formerly 'Dbcoup'
Why? If you say something with this conviction you also have to explain why you think it's 18 and not 17 or 16.
This "you have to draw a line somewhere" sounds a lot like "we need to get brexit done". Doesn't mean anything, really.
I would answer that but im on you're ignore list :laugh:
 

Iain42

Well-known Member
Why? If you say something with this conviction you also have to explain why you think it's 18 and not 17 or 16.
This "you have to draw a line somewhere" sounds a lot like "we need to get brexit done". Doesn't mean anything, really.
OK, I will try to answer that with my thoughts. To have a vote is a responsibility, something that should be thought about and aligned with personal beliefs. However with any responsibility should come accountability. Your average 16 - 18 year old doesn't have that, they are in full time education, supported by their parents. Now you could make an argument that the voting age should go up, as youngsters these days are older before they have that accountability to go with the responsibility, with many being in full time education and sponsored by the bank of mum and dad until their early twenties.

So 18 seems like a reasonable compromise.
 

mcbainne

Well-known Member
You know what, I can say hand on heart, When I put my cross on the paper, I was already resigned to losing the vote, and I would have accepted it, whatever the split.

losing a vote is losing a vote, simple as that. The BS reasons I have heard in an attempt to overturn it, never cease to amaze me.

It's like the result gives you validity to overturn it.
The reality is people don't stop being passionate about and fighting for things they believe in if they get a set back and that goes for both sides. The notion that Brexiteers would have simply given up on the idea of leaving the EU if the vote result had been reversed is a bit far fetched

We only had a GE 2 years ago but that hasn't stopped plenty on here, yourself included, shouting for another because you didn't get what you wanted the last time and the tories have been unable to deliver the thing you want. What happens if it's another hung parliment or heaven forbid Labour or the Lib Dems get in, are you going to accept it, shrug your shoulders, unsubscribe from the thread and give up? No, we're never going to hear the end of it ;)
 

Iain42

Well-known Member
The reality is people don't stop being passionate about and fighting for things they believe in if they get a set back and that goes for both sides. The notion that Brexiteers would have simply given up on the idea of leaving the EU if the vote result had been reversed is a bit far fetched

We only had a GE 2 years ago but that hasn't stopped plenty on here, yourself included, shouting for another because you didn't get what you wanted the last time and the tories have been unable to deliver the thing you want. What happens if it's another hung parliment or heaven forbid Labour or the Lib Dems get in, are you going to accept it, shrug your shoulders, unsubscribe from the thread and give up? No, we're never going to hear the end of it ;)
Nothing wrong with people being passionate about, and advocating for, what they believe in. However I think some (note I say some and not all) on the remain side have tried to overturn a democratic vote with direct action. That is unacceptable.
 

Bigfingers

Formerly 'Dbcoup'
We only had a GE 2 years ago but that hasn't stopped plenty on here, yourself included, shouting for another because you didn't get what you wanted the last time and the tories have been unable to deliver the thing you want. What happens if it's another hung parliment or heaven forbid Labour or the Lib Dems get in, are you going to accept it, shrug your shoulders, unsubscribe from the thread and give up? No, we're never going to hear the end of it ;)
You do realise we are having another election because the government doesnt have a majority to carry anything forward? That is the reason I wanted another election.
If the country votes in Labour, so be it. We will have to live with the consequences. Unlike remainers, I would not be calling for another GE because I didn't agree with the result.
If it's a hung parliament, it would need two parties to basically agree a forward strategy, if not it wont work.
 

Liquid101

Distinguished Member
If the country votes in Labour, so be it. We will have to live with the consequences. Unlike remainers, I would not be calling for another GE because I didn't agree with the result.
If it's a hung parliament, it would need two parties to basically agree a forward strategy, if not it wont work.
Just make sure you don’t forget this.

If Labour (or a Labour led coalition) wins, and they chose to have another referendum, which Remain subsequently wins, i‘ll be ready to remind you.

It’s all just the will of the people after all.
 

Sonic67

Distinguished Member
The reality is people don't stop being passionate about and fighting for things they believe in if they get a set back and that goes for both sides. The notion that Brexiteers would have simply given up on the idea of leaving the EU if the vote result had been reversed is a bit far fetched
We voted to leave the EU. Parliament didn't do it so parliament needs to be replaced.

How would it be if Scotland votes for Independence and it never happened?

Are you going to accept it, shrug your shoulders, unsubscribe from the thread and give up? No, we're never going to hear the end of it ;)
 

mcbainne

Well-known Member
You do realise we are having another election because the government doesnt have a majority to carry anything forward? That is the reason I wanted another election.
If the country votes in Labour, so be it. We will have to live with the consequences. Unlike remainers, I would not be calling for another GE because I didn't agree with the result.
If it's a hung parliament, it would need two parties to basically agree a forward strategy, if not it wont work.
We're having an election because the PM spat the dummy and pulled his shoddy deal because he didn't want to grant parliment enough time to scrutinise it
You've been as vociferous as most on here moaning about the parliment and the speaker being remain biased and wanting a clear out via a GE. You're no different to the remain, you want your own side to win

It would do Westminster good to have a period of deadlock where the extremes of left and right would have to comprimise
 

Sonic67

Distinguished Member
Just make sure you don’t forget this.

If Labour (or a Labour led coalition) wins, and they chose to have another referendum, which Remain subsequently wins, i‘ll be ready to remind you.

It’s all just the will of the people after all.
So can't we just ignore it and vote again?

It’s all just the will of the people after all.
 

Sonic67

Distinguished Member
We're having an election because the PM spat the dummy and pulled his shoddy deal because he didn't want to grant parliment enough time to scrutinise it
You've been as vociferous as most on here moaning about the parliment and the speaker being remain biased and wanting a clear out via a GE. You're no different to the remain, you want your own side to win
Leave did win. We haven't. Not under May or Boris.
It would do Westminster good to have a period of deadlock where the extremes of left and right would have to comprimise
We've had deadlock. For years.
 

mcbainne

Well-known Member
Nothing wrong with people being passionate about, and advocating for, what they believe in. However I think some (note I say some and not all) on the remain side have tried to overturn a democratic vote with direct action. That is unacceptable.
What are you classing as direct action?
 

Iain42

Well-known Member
What are you classing as direct action?
Going too far with protesting etc. Also the inability of the HoC to implement what they have been instructed to do, can't be much more direct than that.
 

klaxhu

Well-known Member
OK, I will try to answer that with my thoughts. To have a vote is a responsibility, something that should be thought about and aligned with personal beliefs. However with any responsibility should come accountability. Your average 16 - 18 year old doesn't have that, they are in full time education, supported by their parents. Now you could make an argument that the voting age should go up, as youngsters these days are older before they have that accountability to go with the responsibility, with many being in full time education and sponsored by the bank of mum and dad until their early twenties.

So 18 seems like a reasonable compromise.
Both me and my wife worked throughout our education and we supported our parents through that time. I was 17 and my wife works since she is 16. She supported herself through highschool, her sister and her mom. Why would she not get to vote?

A lot of unfair assumptions you are making there and complete generalisations.
I am not saying its not the case for many, but who knows what is the actual general situation.
Something that might seem like something might just not be so.

MT:
"It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so. "
 

mcbainne

Well-known Member
We voted to leave the EU. Parliament didn't do it so parliament needs to be replaced.

How would it be if Scotland votes for Independence and it never happened?

Are you going to accept it, shrug your shoulders, unsubscribe from the thread and give up? No, we're never going to hear the end of it ;)
Try to keep up with the context of the discussion, you're agreeing with me there
 

Bigfingers

Formerly 'Dbcoup'
Just make sure you don’t forget this
Just because there may be a possibility of a Labour government, it doesn't mean I have to accept a 2nd ref or a reversal. Don't forget Leave won, remain lost and it has not yet been implemented. This validates my argument. Remainers don't have this luxury.

Just make sure you don't forget this.
 

Sonic67

Distinguished Member
Both me and my wife worked throughout our education and we supported our parents through that time. I was 17 and my wife works since she is 16. She supported herself through highschool, her sister and her mom. Why would she not get to vote?
The same reason as she can't go to an adult prison, buy a knife, have a tattoo, gamble, go to war, buy fireworks, buy a pint.

Legally she's not an adult.
 

klaxhu

Well-known Member
Leave did win. We haven't. Not under May or Boris.

We've had deadlock. For years.
Self inflicted dead lock - that's what happens when you promise something and then try and deliver the un-deliverable.
 

Liquid101

Distinguished Member
Just because there may be a possibility of a Labour government, it doesn't mean I have to accept a 2nd ref or a reversal. Don't forget Leave won, remain lost and it has not yet been implemented. This validates my argument. Remainers don't have this luxury.

Just make sure you don't forget this.
Teresa May and Boris Jonson have been trying. It’s not my fault they didn’t have enough support in Parliament for it. It’s representative of the population, it was never going to be easy.

Anyway, decisions and laws get overturned all the time. We get the chance to change our government every 5 years (or every year if they’re Tory) :rotfl:
 

Sonic67

Distinguished Member
As an aside, your habit of parroting everything is getting really boring, and doesn’t really help drive the discussion forward.
It makes the point. It's the same one you made so don't you see it was a pointless argument in the first place?

And "drive the discussion forward?"

Forward to what? Are you aware this has been going on since before the vote?

And that there is never going to be an end state where we all sit back and say, "well we solved that, now for the middle east."
 

Bigfingers

Formerly 'Dbcoup'
Teresa May and Boris Jonson have been trying. It’s not my fault they didn’t have enough support in Parliament for it. It’s representative of the population, it was never going to be easy.

Anyway, decisions and laws get overturned all the time. We get the chance to change our government every 5 years (or every year if your a Tory) :rotfl:
Thanks for such a weak willed generic response. Doesn't really help the conversation to move forward though does it?
 

mcbainne

Well-known Member
Going too far with protesting etc. Also the inability of the HoC to implement what they have been instructed to do, can't be much more direct than that.
I don't get your point with protesting, from memory there have been no major disturbances
As for the HOC that's how the system works, the governement haven't been able to come up with a position that could get the votes. Although saying that they probs did last week but BoJo decide to change direction
 

Sonic67

Distinguished Member
Self inflicted dead lock - that's what happens when you promise something and then try and deliver the un-deliverable.
Not "self inflicted." I haven't done anything to stop us leaving.

We voted to leave, we leave.

Only remainers brought about the deadlock and are stopping us leaving.

Given long enough the EU still might kick us out. God willing.
 

Iain42

Well-known Member
Both me and my wife worked throughout our education and we supported our parents through that time. I was 17 and my wife works since she is 16. She supported herself through highschool, her sister and her mom. Why would she not get to vote?

A lot of unfair assumptions you are making there and complete generalisations.
I am not saying its not the case for many, but who knows what is the actual general situation.
Something that might seem like something might just not be so.

MT:
"It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so. "
You really need to read what people write here.

Many do work and support themselves, but many don't. That's what I said and why I said 18 was a fair compromise.

Are you advocating that the right to vote arrives when you start working?
 

klaxhu

Well-known Member
You really need to read what people write here.

Many do work and support themselves, but many don't. That's what I said and why I said 18 was a fair compromise.

Are you advocating that the right to vote arrives when you start working?
many do and many don't. Great assertion. Can you give me some %? What are you basing this on?

Wow, ok - I'lll back off.

You certainly contribute already if you work or study, many students also work in research “for free” through uni, ultimately helping their country thrive. I am not one to make a decision but you seem to have a good handle on how many fo or don’t do things, so I’ll let you show me the study/poll/paper that supports your assertions.
 

Iain42

Well-known Member
I don't get your point with protesting, from memory there have been no major disturbances
As for the HOC that's how the system works, the governement haven't been able to come up with a position that could get the votes. Although saying that they probs did last week but BoJo decide to change direction
I know that's how the HoC works, how representative democracy works, but when those representatives pass a decision to the electorate, they should respect and implement that decision.

Many of them have been at best reluctant to do that.
 

Iain42

Well-known Member
many do and many don't. Great assertion. Can you give me some %? What are you basing this on?

Wow, ok - I'lll back off.

You certainly contribute already if you work or study, many students also work in research “for free” through uni, ultimately helping their country thrive. I am not one to make a decision but you seem to have a good handle on how many fo or don’t do things, so I’ll let you show me the study/poll/paper that supports your assertions.
Best I could find in a reasonable time. Should schoolchildren get a part-time job?

It seems that approximately 80% of 16 - 18 year olds are in full time education.
 

klaxhu

Well-known Member
Best I could find in a reasonable time. Should schoolchildren get a part-time job?

It seems that approximately 80% of 16 - 18 year olds are in full time education.
So? A lot of students also work as they are in full time education: coffee shops, retail, you name it - cause money is not always enough.

Either way, where did that bring us anyhow? We have kids finishing education and find no jobs cause they are not anchored in reality.
Look at germany and france, they both learn and work when they are 16 already, to link what they learn to their work. And again, read what I wrote please: if they are studying that is already contributing to society so again, they should have a say in their future.
 

Sonic67

Distinguished Member
So? A lot of students also work as they are in full time education: coffee shops, retail, you name it - cause money is not always enough.

Either way, where did that bring us anyhow? We have kids finishing education and find no jobs cause they are not anchored in reality.
Look at germany and france, they both learn and work when they are 16 already, to link what they learn to their work. And again, read what I wrote please: if they are studying that is already contributing to society so again, they should have a say in their future.
A 13 year old can be doing a paper round and at school so full time education. Do they get a vote? A 20 year old can be not working or studying and on benefits. So do they not get a vote?

And yeah, look at Germany and France. Voting age is 18.
 

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