Genelec, XTZ... home cinema redesign

Kosta88

Standard Member
Hello,
I saw some discussions pertaining to Genelec here, so I'll just shoot a question here:
I have a pair of 1031s here, which I absolutely love for their sound. In my earlier years as sound engineer used to use them for mixing. I used to mix on bigger Genelecs in studios too, and always found them top notch. Even had a Genelec sub, which I sold and built my own DBA.
I am using the pair of 1031s now "only" as a mid-field monitors at my working table, just to listen to music while working - yeah I know, totally overkill, but I still love them. Using Focusrite Clarett for playback.
In the meantime, I built my home cinema "v1", for which I currently use my 5.1 setup consisting of 99.26 MKII (two towers, center and surrounds shelf), which I didn't buy for the home cinema... it was bought before we were thinking of going dedicated home cinema.

Now, I am redesigning my cinema ("v2"), which should get a decent upgrade. Both acoustically and equipment-wise. I am not really happy with the 99.26's as a cinema speakers. They are fabulous speakers for music, even in surround, they sound very transparent and pleasing. However, with movies and series, they sometimes seem to lack that punch. The sound of my Genelec is also blowing them out of the water in my ears... Genelecs are way more clearer, penetrating, harsher if you will (not in a bad way). And they definitely seem to have more sound pressure. Mostly due to the highs/mids I would guess. XTZ are equipped with the ribbon tweeters, which aren't as nearly as penetrating. More transparent I would say, softer too.

So, now I am thinking, I want to sell the XTZ, but what then.

I like XTZ as a company really. Excellent quality for money. And they have this Cinema line. Never heard them, but from the reviews, they are reported to by perfect for cinema sound, like harsher highs, more pressure. So I am thinking:

Could M8 actually be able to deliver me what I hear out of Genelecs? At least similar.
Not sure however if Genelec 1031s would be good as main speakers. I think they are too small dimensioned? My room is about 270sqft. Big Genelecs (even used) are just completely out of my budget. A system based on M-series, for instance, 3 M8s and 2-4 S5s would be doable.

What do you think? Would it be worth replacing my 99.26s with the cinema series?
 

anjan

Active Member
What is your listening distance? Genelec guide is here

I have 8341s with two SAM subs for stereo music. It sounds utterly incredible. To use this setup in my cinema room would be too expensive - I'd need the 8361s for the front speakers and bigger subs. Also my speakers are behind an acoustically transparent screen and using powered monitors there would complicate things further.

I have MK300s/ 150s in the cinema room. These are superb for movies and music. Not quite as good for stereo as the Ones, but they are still superb for stereo music, better than Devialet Phantoms that I had also owned and significantly cheaper than an equivalent Ones setup.

I have XTZ M6s in another room - good but not as good as the MKs but the room is acoustically challenging which probably affects sound quality, so not easy to fairly judge.
 

Kosta88

Standard Member
About 10ft.
Never listened to newer series, I was just always very happy with my 1031s ;-)

Now I'm intrigued: why does using powered monitors behind AT-screen complicate things? Because I am just about to build in an AT-screen, replacing my "old" diy 16:9, and white speakers on each side.
And I can power them up with the amp, if I use a kind of outlet bar that supports that (I am using it to power my yamaha amp when marantz powers up). Works a treat.

Sorry, but what is/are MK300s/150s? Don't know those...
 
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kbfern

Distinguished Member
You will need very deep pockets for MK 300's they are nearly £2.5k per speaker, even the S150's are £1400 each these are new prices.



There are alternatives to these speakers at much better prices and Arendal and Monolith speakers are worth considering.

Monolith speakers are available in Europe at decent prices but are out of stock on most of their range till February. I recently got a full set of their 365T and 265T THX speakers which gave me a full 5.0.4 setup as they include Atmos up firing speakers the cost was about £1k which is incredible value for money and I love them and I have a full set of XTZ Cinema's in my main home cinema room.


 

kbfern

Distinguished Member
It's in my signature below.
M6 LCR S5 surrounds and some S2 Atmos.
I have heard the M8's and they are a step up but they are bigger and cost more. They are similar in size to my Monolith speakers which are much cheaper and have a similar sound.
 

Kosta88

Standard Member
I am very careful when it comes to cheap stuff. I did that with my v1 home cinema, and now it’s like who buys cheap buys twice...
 

kbfern

Distinguished Member
Some times that is true but not always, read the reviews and see what others have said. I am not one to buy cheap for the sake of it and am happy to buy a bargain when it is.

Too many folks just buy on price with all sorts of stuff and I am not talking the cheap end but at the top end.:)
 

Saul Goodman

Distinguished Member
I'm looking at replacing my JBL 3677s

And am considering

JTR 210RM


And Ascendo ccrm-12p


Both I believe should out perform XTZ M8s and MK 300s.

Not cheap and you would have to import the JTRs from the US.
 

jamieu

Active Member
About 10ft.
Never listened to newer series, I was just always very happy with my 1031s ;-)

Now I'm intrigued: why does using powered monitors behind AT-screen complicate things? Because I am just about to build in an AT-screen, replacing my "old" diy 16:9, and white speakers on each side.

10ft might be pushing it with the smaller 2-way Genelec's for full blown reference levels, but obviously it depends on how loud you normally listen, getting those few extra db's can get expensive and is a waste if you're never going to actually use them.

Can you place your current 1031s at the front of the room and simply see how much you have to turn the gain up to get to a comfortable listening level / if they run out of steam at your usual seating position?

Adding a centre and surrounds (and the sub) will give you additional output overall, but just the L&R should give you a feel how a 110db speaker like the 1031 and the dispersion pattern from the waveguide works in your room.

As for AT screens + powered speakers I'm not sure either. Surely it's just a speaker behind a bit of acoustic cloth. It's been a while since I measured mine, but I didn't notice a dramatic change in output or frequency response re. putting them behind an AT screen, maybe a slight dip in higher frequencies, which can be corrected for in EQ. Genelec have recommendations for placing speakers behind AT screen in their literature (see attached) so it's certainly not something they discourage. I'd always opt for an AT screen over a non-AT screen, it just gives you the feel of being in a cinema.

Professional cinema speakers with high-efficiency compression drivers from JBL and QSC (or the DIY alternatives like the DIY-SG HTM-12 which lots of users on here seem to swear by) will be more efficient at filling a larger space. So that could be another alternative option.

I'd try your current Genelec's and 'get a feel for how they sound ' in that space, you could possible pick up a used set of 3 x 8050's or 1032 or even get a third 1031 to match your current ones. For the surrounds you're almost certainly going to be able to go down a couple of models. The resale value on Genelec is exceedingly good, which opens up a nice upgrade path / allows you to start with 2 ways while keeping your eyes open - longer term - for a good price on the larger 3 ways.
 

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anjan

Active Member
Now I'm intrigued: why does using powered monitors behind AT-screen complicate things?
As for AT screens + powered speakers I'm not sure either. Surely it's just a speaker behind a bit of acoustic cloth.
This is just for my setup. I'd need to get builders in to either rebuild the wall or take bricks out of the chimney stack in order to accommodate powered monitors. The In-wall MK 300s are shallower than the equivalent Genelecs capable of producing the same spl.
 

Kosta88

Standard Member
10ft might be pushing it with the smaller 2-way Genelec's for full blown reference levels, but obviously it depends on how loud you normally listen, getting those few extra db's can get expensive and is a waste if you're never going to actually use them.

Can you place your current 1031s at the front of the room and simply see how much you have to turn the gain up to get to a comfortable listening level / if they run out of steam at your usual seating position?
Just did that.
I set them up as "clean" as possible, Direct sound, no DBA, put them beside each other Genelecs on Zone2.
First I noticed is basically lack off, or better said dead bass on Genelecs compared to XTZ.
The upper bass is also quite underpowered, not what I expected.
Highs are more penetrating, that's for sure. Expected that.
Listening through my tracks, interchanging between the two, it was really a weird experience.
I'd say in general, there were more tracks that I preferred on the XTZ, than on Genelec, however it's very hard to judge because it might also have something to do with the missing bass.
Genelec sounded very clear on voices and some solo instruments, like a violin or flute. It was more present. Certain voices though sounded better to my ears on XTZ. Genelecs also had more punch on certain sounds, like some Daft Punk tracks.
XTZ definitely sound "rounder", softer, but if I push highs a bit, they get some of the brilliance back.
Genelec were lacking SPL-wise though. They were starting to blink red at about 102dB. I mostly listen at 80-90dB range, but I do go up to 100 sometimes, and there are movies that I watch at about 90, but they most likely have single sound effects that go up to 100 easily.
Compared to XTZ, Genelecs sounded thin. However, if I would move near them, closer, they started to resemble what I know from sitting on the table, with them not more than 2-3ft away.
I also matched XTZ to Genelec according to the SPL-meter.
If XTZ cinema series are where I think they are, they might actually fit quite well. But rather M8 than M6.
What would be interesting, XTZ have some Beryllium tweeter-upgrades for 99.36s and 99.26s, I wonder if that would be an alternative to cinema series.

As for AT screens + powered speakers I'm not sure either. Surely it's just a speaker behind a bit of acoustic cloth. It's been a while since I measured mine, but I didn't notice a dramatic change in output or frequency response re. putting them behind an AT screen, maybe a slight dip in higher frequencies, which can be corrected for in EQ. Genelec have recommendations for placing speakers behind AT screen in their literature (see attached) so it's certainly not something they discourage. I'd always opt for an AT screen over a non-AT screen, it just gives you the feel of being in a cinema.
Yes, I am quite sure I want that too. Right now 16:9, which is also a bit too small. So I am keeping the distance, but making the screen bigger and also 2.4:1. This is only possible with speakers behind the screen.

Professional cinema speakers with high-efficiency compression drivers from JBL and QSC (or the DIY alternatives like the DIY-SG HTM-12 which lots of users on here seem to swear by) will be more efficient at filling a larger space. So that could be another alternative option.
Interesting, however I think horns are not that well suitable for (Hifi) music.

It's most likely have to be a decision either to keep the Genelecs and extend into surround, or sell them.
 
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