Gecko home cinema forum days

Rock Danger

Distinguished Member
That's certainly busy.

Yeah, I saw it as well.
 

Rock Danger

Distinguished Member
Good god man, where were you putting it!!?
 

Rob Sinden

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
This gives some useful insights into how Steinway Lyngdorf approach the design of their systems.

They are the only systems I know of that add zero distortion to the signal. This is critical for high end music reproduction but also means you can play these systems are much higher volume levels than other systems without harshness or fatigue.

At high end shows people often complain about the volume level other systems are being played at. This isn't a request that Steinway get when the systems are playing far louder.........because there is no noise, distortion or lack of resolution.

 

orange55

Well-known Member
This gives some useful insights into how Steinway Lyngdorf approach the design of their systems.

They are the only systems I know of that add zero distortion to the signal. This is critical for high end music reproduction but also means you can play these systems are much higher volume levels than other systems without harshness or fatigue.

At high end shows people often complain about the volume level other systems are being played at. This isn't a request that Steinway get when the systems are playing far louder.........because there is no noise, distortion or lack of resolution.

Nice explanation. I assume the Lyngdorf MP-50 doesn't have the same bass steering he is referring to?
 

Rob Sinden

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
Yes it does.

All Lyngdorf and Steinway Lyngdorf products use the same approach to bass management but to get the best results you should always use a pair of woofers placed in either front corner.

Only the locations give the best impulse response – so you feel as well as hear the bass. When you run RoomPerfect, the bass from the left-hand woofer will be perfectly integrated with all the speakers on the left-hand side of the room.

This creates a system that sounds as if you have huge full range speakers around the room.

If you did place full range speakers in a normal sized room, the variation from speaker to speaker would be huge and the bubble of sound all around you wouldn’t be natural.

In a Steinway system the improvement in impulse response this gives isn’t restricted to 80Hz but goes up to 400Hz.

Try comparing drumming, music with great percussion or gun shot on a Steinway system with any alternatives. They really can’t reproduce it in the same way.

This is also why the “high end” cinema systems around cannot play music faithfully.
 

Rob Sinden

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
One of the reasons MK developed subwoofers and satellite speakers is because in the studio they couldn’t get the same response from both speakers. The only way identical bass could be heard from both speakers is with the bass being played though the same subwoofer.

Fast forward 35 year and with 11 or more speakers in home cinema systems, there is no way you’ll get the same sound from each speaker. When you listen to a system where the sound that moves around varies in quality, it sounds unnatural.

Lyngdorf technologies fix this. Notice the difference in impulse response is why they don’t let their centre channel play below 200Hz- the lower frequencies in this channel are directed to the left and right boundary woofers.

Its not Steinway speakers that are magic it’s all the technologies behind them.
 

Rob Sinden

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
Hi All

On Sunday a couple of Forum members dropped by for a listen to the systems here and to measure them. The MK system is remarkably even all the way down to 10Hz and has incredible headroom which makes watching something like the latest John Wyck truly terrifying.

The smaller Steinway Lyngdorf Atmos system is also remarkably flat down to 20Hz in a huge open room. This system is clearly even more accurate and is also a remarkable stereo system.

I hope we will be able to post graphs on these readings soon as it may interest some people.
Part of the reason that the Steinway Lyngdorf system has the best stereo performance of any system I know of and has such an enveloping surround field is that its in a very live room. I’ve been posting about this on FB etc. and thought I’d share some of the info here……

Room Acoustics, A Different Approach

While more people agree that the room is typically the weakest link in a home audio system, there are two very different approaches to dealing with its effects. For home cinema, the most common approach is to remove the reflections from room with treatment, so you only hear sound coming directly from the speakers.

While this approach is perfect for the assessment of sound, it isn’t the best approach for its enjoyment. This approach has two shortcomings; it requires far more power for good results because the room absorbs rather than amplifies the sound from the speakers. It also creates obvious gaps in the soundfield from places in the room where there are no speakers.

All expert, independent research shows that to recreate a completely seamless soundfield with no gaps around you requires 1000’s of speakers, an approach that’s simply not practical.

A Different Approach – Use The Room, Don’t Fight It.

In spaces that people visit go to hear music at its best such as Concert Halls and Jazz Venues, the reflections from the room are a huge contributing factor to the overall sound quality. For 30 years, Lyngdorf have used this as the starting point for the design of their audio system, utilising the additions from the room rather than trying to remove them.

x.jpg


Hifi lovers have never absorbed room reflections as it creates a dull, lifeless sound. Developed for use in Danish homes with harder, modern interior Lyngdorf audio system have been developed for use in these live interiors. As interior design follows the clean, uncluttered modernist approach, audio systems designed for the spaces are the natural partner.

Here the walls amplify the sound from the speakers. This means the system has to play at much lower levels to achieve the same volume of sound so there is far less leakage to adjoining rooms.
With hard, reflective walls, the gaps in the soundstage around the listener are filled by the reflections off the walls. This creates a more enveloping experience that makes you feel you are there with the actors or musicians.

y.jpg

Testing the Theory

In the UK there are many showrooms where you can hear cinema systems in highly treated rooms. At Gecko we have both. Here we have a highly treated cinema room and 8 systems in normal, live rooms.

We encourage people to go and compare both approaches. The stereo and surround systems here sound far better in normal, untreated room.

The Big Picture Great Sound- In One Room or Every Room

Most installation companies pay little attention to delivering great sound around the home. The focus is maximising the profit in the cinema and hoping to sell better in ceiling speakers in a few rooms. We believe this is a huge missed opportunity.

Whatever system you client has, Lyngdorfs technologies allow you to deliver higher quality sound than ever before. By demonstrating incredible sound can be achieved in normal rooms, many dealers are now selling incredible audio systems throughout the home rather than just one room.

Steinway & Sons collaboration with Lyngdorf was only agree because their audio system could perfectly reproduce their pianos. Something that no other audio system is capable of. This is one of the events where listeners could hear that there is no difference between a live piano recital and a Steinway Lyngdorf audio system.

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Lyngdorf’s complete music system shares much of this technology and costs £6,000 has been winning best sound at show where many alternatives cost 20 times as much.

To hear both options for yourself, please content www.geckohomecinema.com
 

Steve356

Well-known Member
No, we didnt bother but I know how it will measure. I'll try and get the measurment from Cory now...
We also got engrossed in listening to music and watching movies. The only downside to the systems at Rob's place is you lose yourself in listening to and watching stuff and time flies by. :D
 

Rob Sinden

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
FYI Here is the measured in room response on the smaller Steinyway Lyngdorf Atmos system at Gecko. This is in a very live room with no treatment. Thanks very much to Cory for taking the measurment.

The room is currently open backed. I'll be changing this soon as I think this will make it a nicer space to sit in. I'm also looking to make the main room as live as possible as I know this will improve the music systems here.

Steinway IW26 REW measurment - Cory Oct 19.jpg
 

SparkerB

Active Member
Hi Gents, do excuse the first images, screen grabbed and sent off without thinking it may end up under the eyes of you geeks. Take a look at these new images. The overall idea was to identify what was happening below 20Hz. My personal taste with my home theatre is to feel low bass more than hear it.

The Steinway nails it in all areas 20hz - 20khz, offering up a sound stage that is full of detail and clarity. Our ultra low bass conclusion was due to the openness of the room, the sub 20hz SPL falls away due to the lack of an enclosed room to help the pressure/gain build up. For Steve was ideal due to his ears throwing a wobbly if introduced to anything too low.

That said, a closed room would introduce other challenges so it's a trade off. Considering 95% of most movies have little or nothing below 20Hz, most people would not really miss it.
Steinway Smoothing primary seat.jpg
Steinway no Smoothing.jpg
 

SparkerB

Active Member
All that being said, I still feel more tests could be done to establish if Voices (Steinways configurable present offering) could compensate for the drop off. I don't think we spent enough time in that area.
 

orange55

Well-known Member
Hi Gents, do excuse the first images, screen grabbed and sent off without thinking it may end up under the eyes of you geeks. Take a look at these new images. The overall idea was to identify what was happening below 20Hz. My personal taste with my home theatre is to feel low bass more than hear it.

The Steinway nails it in all areas 20hz - 20khz, offering up a sound stage that is full of detail and clarity. Our ultra low bass conclusion was due to the openness of the room, the sub 20hz SPL falls away due to the lack of an enclosed room to help the pressure/gain build up. For Steve was ideal due to his ears throwing a wobbly if introduced to anything too low.

That said, a closed room would introduce other challenges so it's a trade off. Considering 95% of most movies have little or nothing below 20Hz, most people would not really miss it.View attachment 1215735View attachment 1215736
Is this a average of left and right?
 

Delija

Active Member
For bass frequency range more relevant measurement is combined left + right.
 
Last edited:

orange55

Well-known Member

SparkerB

Active Member
Hi all.


Yes indeed both channels makes sense. We did measure the other channels but there was alot of discussion going on during which I didn't save themo_O. I wouldn't expect the response to be much different just the SPL.
Next time I have the pleasure ill do it with you all in mind and post the full details. It never gets old listening to that setup;)
 

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