Garden Room - help a beginner, to projector or not to projector, that is the question

madgeman

Active Member
Hi all -
we're having a 'general living space' garden room built in July, and i want to put in a 'home cinema' experience. Naturally this will be compromised, as it will be used as a living room/study from time to time.
The internal dimensions are 4.8m wide x 3.3m deep x 2.1m high. I was thinking of putting in a projector (i bought an Epson tw7000 from a nice chap on here), but starting to get cold feet, as i'm worried that: a) the ceiling height is a little low for mounting it and b) the screen will have to be huge and the seating is likely to be c3m from the screen. I may change it to an OLED - i wanted to avoid a TV on the wall as it's always there, but it might be the easier choice.
Am i over worrying? My issue is i can't picture the setup in my head.

i'm planning on putting in 5.2.1 - i've purchase a Denon 2700 AVR, and am looking at the Monitor Audio Bronze range for a decent budget entry - but WAF means i'm planning to use the Bronze 50s for LR (150 for centre) - but placing them near the corners of the wall. Is that going to be OK?
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
You should be getting 80" picture from 3meters and that would still leave good space for speakers at the front wall so they don`t have to go directly to corners. At least push the front speakers forward then using 60cm tall speaker stands (Fisual Dynami Duo 600mm would be perfect for low price) and if you buy fixed screen get the height spot on, shoot the picture on the wall before you install the screen and try different heights to see where is the sweet spot as you don`t want to have the center channel too low either. Definitely stick with projector if possible, you just need to calculate the screen size what is optimal for the room so it leaves good space for speakers. That model should have best in class performer! Review said to keep the picture size below 100" to see the extra detail of 4K and naturally you don´t need to sit far away.

B50/C150 based system sounds great with tight budget. I had the earlier gen B1s and Centre part of system. They are one of the best in their class and the forward sound with the lively top end is great for movies. The new model should have wider dispersion and better overall due to larger cabinets and changes made. You can still go listen them at local Richer Sounds, Audio T, SSA, Hifix, Peter Tyson etc. Demoing is free, no need to buy anything.

For subwoofer if you looking budget product i would recommend P12-300SB at 399£ mark for the 15sqm room. It`s good sealed woofer that gives you taste of quality bass with plenty of weight/depth which you likely haven`t heard before. Of course if you can spend more then there is better models (P12-PR at 499£).




PS. The Bronze 50 5.1 package costs roughly 1400£, but if you buy BUNDLE deal you can get the Denon X2700H basically for 10£! :)

Just don`t buy the subwoofer that comes with it! Ask the price without sub and if you can`t have the on-wall FX speakers ask to change them to another set of Bronze 50. The FX speakers would ideally go to side walls each side of listeners, but rear wall is option too just you need to leave 1feet space to next wall (not too close to corner). For 5.1 system mount them 2feet higher from seated ear height! FX comes cheaper due to not having to buy stands and they can create more diffused soundfield as in less directional which gives more cinematic feel, well i felt that when i heard em ages ago.

Another good option could be the Dali Spektor 2 range. They are bit below Bronzes, center channel is smaller also. If you can listen these at some shop do so. Everyone has their own tastes.

The black finish is horrible, but the white is much better.
 

paulbrannan

Active Member
You should be getting 80" picture from 3meters and that would still leave good space for speakers at the front wall so they don`t have to go directly to corners. At least push the front speakers forward then using 60cm tall speaker stands (Fisual Dynami Duo 600mm would be perfect for low price) and if you buy fixed screen get the height spot on, shoot the picture on the wall before you install the screen and try different heights to see where is the sweet spot as you don`t want to have the center channel too low either. Definitely stick with projector if possible, you just need to calculate the screen size what is optimal for the room so it leaves good space for speakers. That model should have best in class performer! Review said to keep the picture size below 100" to see the extra detail of 4K and naturally you don´t need to sit far away.

B50/C150 based system sounds great with tight budget. I had the earlier gen B1s and Centre part of system. They are one of the best in their class and the forward sound with the lively top end is great for movies. The new model should have wider dispersion and better overall due to larger cabinets and changes made. You can still go listen them at local Richer Sounds, Audio T, SSA, Hifix, Peter Tyson etc. Demoing is free, no need to buy anything.

For subwoofer if you looking budget product i would recommend P12-300SB at 399£ mark for the 15sqm room. It`s good sealed woofer that gives you taste of quality bass with plenty of weight/depth which you likely haven`t heard before. Of course if you can spend more then there is better models (P12-PR at 499£).




PS. The Bronze 50 5.1 package costs roughly 1400£, but if you buy BUNDLE deal you can get the Denon X2700H basically for 10£! :)

Just don`t buy the subwoofer that comes with it! Ask the price without sub and if you can`t have the on-wall FX speakers ask to change them to another set of Bronze 50. The FX speakers would ideally go to side walls each side of listeners, but rear wall is option too just you need to leave 1feet space to next wall (not too close to corner). For 5.1 system mount them 2feet higher from seated ear height! FX comes cheaper due to not having to buy stands and they can create more diffused soundfield as in less directional which gives more cinematic feel, well i felt that when i heard em ages ago.

Another good option could be the Dali Spektor 2 range. They are bit below Bronzes, center channel is smaller also. If you can listen these at some shop do so. Everyone has their own tastes.

The black finish is horrible, but the white is much better.
Not to hijack but just looking at the denon package you suggested. Are the dolby atmos upfirers any good, or is it better to go for in-ceiling? I already have the BK sub you mentioned so hoping this would nicely compliment it. Ta
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Not to hijack but just looking at the denon package you suggested. Are the dolby atmos upfirers any good, or is it better to go for in-ceiling? I already have the BK sub you mentioned so hoping this would nicely compliment it. Ta

In-ceiling always best as you hear the effects directly where they suppose to come if placed optimally, this is assuming you got at least 7-8 feet high ceiling, the higher the better to certain point. With the upfiring modules the ceiling won`t come alive so not as pronounced effect and result depends on your ceiling type, height, listening distance to speakers etc. Of course they are still worth it for most people vs. 5.1/7.1 if you read feedback...

For optimal performance, the ceiling should be flat (not angled or vaulted), with a height between 7.5 and 14 feet (2.3 to 4.3 meters), and made of an acoustically reflective material (drywall, plaster, hardwood, or another rigid, non---sound-absorbing material).

For in-ceiling route 5.1.2:

And for 5.1.4 if you don´t have couch against rear wall so one pair slightly in front of listeners and second pair slightly behind.
 

madgeman

Active Member
Hi @Gasp3621 - looking for some more advice. As i said i'm planning on 5.1.2. Think i'll go with the Fisual in-ceiling speakers for atmos, but am looking for some options for the rear sides. Could i use the Fisual speakers in-wall for the rear speakers as well?
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Hi @Gasp3621 - looking for some more advice. As i said i'm planning on 5.1.2. Think i'll go with the Fisual in-ceiling speakers for atmos, but am looking for some options for the rear sides. Could i use the Fisual speakers in-wall for the rear speakers as well?

Yes you can, if you meant to use these (link below) then install them vertically upright. With Atmos system you want the tweeters to be roughly at seated ear height not much higher as you want height separation to overhead channels.
 

madgeman

Active Member
Let's talk speaker placement - i promise i've googled, trawled in here, and read lots, but want someone to give me some direction :)
I'll be going with Monitor Audio Bronze for LCR - given the room is 3.5m wide, and the projector will be 2.5m wide, can i place the LR speakers in the corners? (i'll be using bookshelf Bronze 50s).

For the rears, i've gone MA w180s for in-wall. let's assume the sofa(s) will be on the back wall (it's 4.8m deep), i was planning on putting the w180s in the side walls rather than the rear wall. As per @Gasp3621 comment, i assume these will be placed roughly at ear height of seating?

For atmos i'll be using 2x Fisual IC65s - where would you suggest i place them?

Thank you!
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Yes you can place them in corners, but at least push them forward 30cm if possible and use 600mm tall stands so you get them at optimal height.

Surrounds (tweeters) around seated ear height, but if they are very close to listeners then little bit higher preferably, but not too high as you need some height difference to overhead speakers.

HC65 model would have adjustable tweeter:

Overhead speakers see the link below. Close to where your knees are where you sit roughly, but as you spread them apart don´t put them too close to side walls so little bit narrower than your front main l/r which go in the corners.
 

madgeman

Active Member
so build starts tomorrow, and we're hopefully at the last set of stupid questions..

So, let's talk power. For the motorised screen, i'm thinking of mounting it forward from the wall, and get the electrician to put a socket behind it, seems reasonable (also moving it forward provides me with option to put TV in there at a later date).
For the projector (which will be on the opposite wall), should I get them to put a socket on the ceiling? or a socket above the skirting of the wall and run the cable behind the wall through a brush socket?
 
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madgeman

Active Member
Obligatory pictures. The boxes contain: Denon AVR-X2700; 1x MA Bronze c150 centre, 2x MA W180s, 2x Fisual speaker stands, 2x Fisual IC65s, Epson EH-TW7000 projector, so many cables, kabeldirekt speaker wire, various backboxes and brush faceplates
 

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ShanePJ

Well-known Member
AVForums Sponsor
thanks (as ever!) - @ShanePJ - any advice you can give me is most welcome.
Can I ask what speakers, subwoofer you are going to be using?

I can see the x1 Bronze C150c, x2 W180, x2 Fisual IC65's. I can see earlier on in the thread you have mentioned the Bronze 50's, if this still the case?
 

madgeman

Active Member
yes, they should be coming today (i've been spamming f5 on your warehouse waiting for some, but had to get them elsewhere). subwoofer is still up in there air, but probably a second hand bk gemini 2. This is all new to me, and the WAF is a significant factor :)
 

ShanePJ

Well-known Member
AVForums Sponsor
I don't think you will have any issues with sound regarding drivability of the speakers and the inwall/ceiling speakers will take more power enabling you to progress a few models up without having to worry about replacing them

What are you doing for black out blinds plus sound restrictiveness (by this I mean soft furnishing). The reason I ask about this side is a garden room might deliver a colder sound experience due to its reflective properties but another thing is projectors struggle with the sun hence asking about black out blinds

I would suggest, if the room hasn't many soft furnishings, then some curtains or velvet fabric on the walls will dampen down those unwanted harsh sounds (if it becomes a problem). With the Projector the big thing is to control the light as much as you can and this is really for your next projector and not the one you are using today as the better the projector, the richer the black will become. The reasoning behind this if you have to much ambient light coming into the room, you will never see those lush blacks that many projectors can deliver plus the image could in high sun light like today's unusual British summer weather just look like one of those you've seen in public place which just look all washed out and milky

A couple of pointers. The HDMI cable to the projector. please do not fasten this down as these cable can fail and if you are plastering or adding a false ceiling in, it will be a very costly exercise if changing it. So, do ensure you can freely move the cable so you can use is like a drawstring enabling you to attach a replacement one to it and drag it through without it catching anywhere

If the sun is in direct competition with the projector, the sun will always win, so make sure you do get that side under control

Apart from that, you look like you have a good starting point system for use and looking forward to seeing the completed system :smashin:
 

madgeman

Active Member
thanks @ShanePJ - i bought an ALR motorised screen (where should I put the power for that?) - but will be installing blackout blinds to minimise light. It's a multi-use room, so other sound damping might be unlikely.

Re HDMI, the cables will be going against the joists, so is it best to run conduit with the cables inside and a drawstring around them for 'easy' replacement?
 

ShanePJ

Well-known Member
AVForums Sponsor
With the cable, the thing you have to be sure of is that it free to move around as the ends on the HDMI are larger than many think when trying to squeeze them around corners. If the cable fails (which it most likely will though its lifetime), then so long as you can attach the new cable at one end to the old cable and pull it through, then you shouldn't need to worry from that point forward

Unfortunately I haven't installed an ALR screen as its not something we stock. If you have the manual/make/model, then the information should be available to tell you which side the power is required in the room (otherwise simply drop the manufacturer an email asking). Sadly, their isn't a generic power output side for all screens, so it'll either be on the left or right hand side. Sorry that isn't much help.

At the point of finding which side its on, many just have an electrician install a spur and feed it right into the spur (even though many have plugs nowadays). Do note that if it has an external switch, you will have that to think about before locating the mains connection
 

madgeman

Active Member
thanks - i've got them to put single sockets near projector and screen, seemed the easiest solution.
Re: HDMI, i've asked them to make big enough holes in the joists to feed the HDMI cables through with 'ease' - so hopefully should be ok. Time will tell!
Just opened the MA W180 boxes and they're pretty big, but as they're in-wall, hopefully SWMBO won't mind too much.
 

ShanePJ

Well-known Member
AVForums Sponsor
Once the rears are in place, you'll really enjoy them and when you've forget they're installed and they do something that fools you both into doing something like what happened to me and my mate, you my laugh like we did whilst both looking stupid

20 plus years ago, I was watching something with my mate and we kept hearing this wind noise whilst nattering. For what felt like 10 minutes we searched the rooms for looking for what was making it as it sounded like wind. In then end it transpired that my amp was quite good at mimicking the sound of wind as we had been watching Men behaving Badly (think it was this episode S05 E07 Home Made Sauna) on the TV and when I finally muted the sound, it stopped with us both bursting into laughter :rolleyes: it was an old fashioned Technics SA-TX30 for you. I paid £350 as it was in the window at the wrong price (should have been £550) new and sold it for £270 about seven years later. Absolute bargain and one of my favourite pieces of kit, but I digress. You'll be fine with them once installed and lets hope your new system brings some daft memories like my first proper system did
 

Dobbyisfree

Active Member
Dolby surround upmixer still does that now. The number of times we'll have the news on and think the wind is picking up outside when there's a presenter outside on tv! It also gets the subs going sometimes too a "bassy wind".
Some discrete surround noises are great though, you can't beat a door knocking behind you, it tricks us (and the dogs).
 

ShanePJ

Well-known Member
AVForums Sponsor
you can't beat a door knocking behind you
That reminds me of listening to Jean Michel Jarre Areo 5.1 mix for the first time with me saying to the wife "Who's that at the back door" with us both looking at each other as it only led to the back garden :facepalm:
 

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