Garage Cat6 Extension & Patch Panels

strick206

Standard Member
Morning all,

Hoping you can help me with one or two possibly stupid questions but with all the threads I’ve read I cannot see them

I’m currently converting a detached garage, and plan to run an armoured cat6 UTP to the garage where it will transfer to solid cat6 UTP via an IDC coupler

What I don’t understand is how I terminate that solid cat6 inside the garage, would I do this directly into a patch panel?

The Patch panel will be in the same cupboard as the other tech equipment, One Connect box, sky q, fire stick etc

I know I will need an Ethernet switch like one from Netgear so that’s fine, but if I terminate the incoming connection into say port 1 of the patch panel, I assume I would need to put a patch cable from the output of the patch panel into port 1 of the switch so the broadband will then work on the devices

The next question is about WiFi APs, I’m going to look at getting a ceiling mounted Ubiquiti unit, which will be away from the patch panel etc, how do I do this, do I run a cable from the patch panel to the ceiling where I want the AP, terminate it somehow and then run a small patch cable from the termination to the AP? What would I terminate it in if thats the preferred, it’ll be in the ceiling so I’m thinking more another IDC coupler?

Just confirming some of the Ubiquiti APs are POE. Are there any heat concerns through the cat6 cabling if used in this way

I also assume that the answer to terminating the cat6 in the ceiling for the AP would be the same in the soffit/fascia for any POE CCTV that I may install and will leave provision for?


And finally, the garage will be complete before the home cat6 rewire is started, and in the house I planned to have a bigger server cupboard so to speak with its own patch panel, so is it possible to have two patch panels in one setup. It looks to be on threads I’ve read but I didn’t understand the connecting of the, together

This is what I’d thought but not sure, I would have the house wiring including a patch cable internally that terminates in a wall plate close to the doors at the back of the house

It would be this location where the armoured would commence before going under the garden and then do everything that I’ve said above in the garage itself, but what I‘m not sure on is how to connect the two, is this done with another IDC coupler to a second patch cable in the area of the wall plate?

Long post so thanks for anyone that reads it all the way, from all the posts I’ve read I’ve got all the following in my basket so far to get started and get the garage complete ready for the house





Thanks

Gary
 

neilball

Well-known Member
Armoured cable needs to be terminated with the correct cable glands onto an enclosure at both ends, and the armour appropriately earthed too. So you need a sturdy back box to take the cable gland and hold the “strain” on the cable once connected. Depending on how close this enclosure/back box is from your patch label you then have a couple of options - leave enough length after the cable gland to run the inner part of the cable into the rack and punch down onto the patch label directly, or terminate the armoured cable at the enclosure and use a separate cable connection to the patch panel.

If it were me, I’d probably go with using a sturdy back box and have two punch-down modules - the first would be to connect to the armoured cabke, and the second to connect to a port on the patch oanel, then use a very short patch lead to connect each of the punch down modules to link the armoured cable to the patch panel. You hit want to use a metal-clad back box and faceplate as the back box would easily take the gland connection for the armoured cable, and don’t forget to run an earth cable too.
 

strick206

Standard Member
Thanks Neilball, really appreciate your help, the distance between the armoured and the patch panel would be 5+ metres so terminating and running another cable internally makes sense

So to confirm, if i got a metal double gang back box that would support the armoured cable

Regarding the punch-down modules, my understanding is poor here, so my assumption is this is instead of using an IDC punchdown inline coupler like the one i mentioned above, and instead using two keystone module connectors with a small patch lead between

So i would have a double gang backbox with a blanking faceplate on so i could access if needed in future, and inside that would be two individual keystone module punch downs similar to the link below and a short lead between?


With it repeated at the patch panel side so rather than the internal cable going straight into the patch panel, terminate it in a wall plate and run a short patch lead from the wall plate to the patch panel, i'd then need another short patch lead from the patch panel to the network switch, i guess there are no concerns with added connections in this setup?
 

TheHighFlyingBirds

Well-known Member
Rather than running armoured cable, couldn't you use trunking buried with normal cable? Also allows for new / change in cable in the future.
 

strick206

Standard Member
Thanks Highflyingbirds

I did consider the trunking idea but once factored in buying that in metal to make sure no one puts a spade through it, the armoured worked out cheaper

I assumed as the armoured i was getting was UTP, that once it gets into the converted garage, and strip back the sheathing, in theory it would be the same cable as the stuff i'd be running inside the garage

That's what's thrown me a little from the inline coupler suggestion (albeit inside a proper back box) but my knowledge on this is very basic so happy to rethink and get it right because once it's all plastered it'll be a nightmare
 

mickevh

Distinguished Member
Patch Panels are "just" cable termination, like room sockets, there's no active electronics inside them and each port on the panel is electrically separate from all the others. The PP is essentially just higher physical density of ports and (usually) designed for mounting in standard 19 inch racks that you get in equipment cabinets. (Though you could screw them to some stout battens if you wanted.) You can have as many patch panels as you like.

If you have cable runs routed from one equipment cabinet to another, there's no problem terminating the cable run(s) each end onto a PP - indeed it's usually the preferred and most useful way to do it and is common practice. It's a good idea to label the cabinet inter-connectors ports clearly and record them in a diagram somewhere. (It's a good idea to uniquely label the ends of all cable lobes and either record them on a diagram or list them in a "patching schedule.")

One then patches the cable lobes to the active equipment as required - there's no need to ensure port 1 on the PP hits port 1 on a switch, (any switch port will do,) but there's no reason not to either. Often (for simple "flat" SOHO networks) it's just a matter of what routing of the patchcords is neatest or most convenient.

There are multiple ways to dress off the cable lobe for your AP's (webcams etc.) at the AP end - here's a few examples:
  • Terminate it onto a nearby socket and use a patchcord between socket and appliance.
  • Use an "inline" type IDC/RJ45 box (with a rj45 port - I'd choose one with lugs that allowed me to screw the box to something) and again use a patchcord for the last hop. (Physically it's a bit smaller than an 85mm patress with a faceplate - electrically it''s the same.)
  • Terminate the cable lobe onto an RJ45 plug (ensure it's a "special" RJ45 plug suitable for terminating solid core cable) and install that directly into the device. For things like AP's that don't move after installation, concern about fatigue cracking in the cable is less of a big deal.
Which to choose is mostly an aesthetic and/or convenience decision. I've done all three over the years.

I doubt there's any issue with heat delivering POE over the UTP. This is the sort of thing the IEEE consider before signing off on the standards.

If running a cable between two buildings, particularly if it's going to be inaccessible after installation, you might want to consider running two. It's highly unlikely a UTP lobe will fail in service, but if it does and you have no alternate in situ, you are off the air until you rip and replace. With an alternate in situ, you might be able to get back up and running quicker if the "spare" survived the catastrophe. Cable is cheap compared to the hassle of installing it. Or you might consider what others suggested and instead of direct burying, install into ducting and leave a draw string in situ which will make adding/replacing cables in a future easier.
 
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strick206

Standard Member
Thanks mickevh, that's really useful

I think i understand what i need now and can look to get an order placed, hopefully this is correct

I'm going to go with the armoured cable even though i understand normal cable in conduit may be a more future proof, but i will look into running two given the distance isn't all that far

Regarding terminating the armoured at either end (by the back doors to the house and the entrance to the garage)

Would these be the correct glands to terminate the cable in? Screwfix Brass Exterior Gland 20mm - i cannot see the dimension of the Cable Monkey armoured cat6

Once beyond the gland, then use an IDC to RJ45 connector box that has lugs so i can secure it to the backbox

Another IDC to RJ45 connector that'll run from there to the patch panel

Then a short patch lead with RJ45 connectors on each end to connect it all together in the backbox

Repeat the above in the house and run that back to the house patch panel once that is installed

The main router will be in the house and connected to patch panel 1, therefore all the cabling above will provide broadband to the garage through to patch panel two

I can then run a patch lead from the patch panel to the ceiling, terminated with a solid core RJ45 connector and put that straight into the AP in the ceiling

Hope all that makes sense?


Finally, if i have a network switch next to patch panel one (in the house), would that suggest that i don't actually need one in the garage and the patch panel will do

Or do i then need a network switch to connect the sky Q box, Fire TV etc into?

I'm thinking that with a 12 port patch panel, one patch lead comes in from the house which brings the broadband into the garage, then everything else connects into the front of the patch panel to work?

But if that is completely false i have no problem getting a second network switch, nor do i have a problem if two network switches is the preferred method of doing this
 

oneman

Well-known Member
I wouldn't bother with a patch panel unless you are running further cabling around the garage. Terminate in a RJ45 wall box and a patch lead from there to the switch. Patch panel is used for connecting two cables together in a flexible way, its not active and it does not provide actual network connection, that is what the switch is for.

Also if you running a cable then run two cables in case you have any problems with first cable.

And as has been suggested above you can get external cable and run it in trunking instead of using armoured cable.
 

mickevh

Distinguished Member
Fiinally, if i have a network switch next to patch panel one (in the house), would that suggest that i don't actually need one in the garage and the patch panel will do

Or do i then need a network switch to connect the sky Q box, Fire TV etc into?

I'm thinking that with a 12 port patch panel, one patch lead comes in from the house which brings the broadband into the garage, then everything else connects into the front of the patch panel to work?

In ethernet networking, there can only be one "active" thing on the end of any cable lobe (e.g. router, switch, AP, PC, TV - whatever.) If you have enough cables run from house to garage to facilitate the number of devices in the garage, then you don't need a switch. If not, you do. (Regardless of whether you use a PP or not.)

Some worked examples perhaps might help illustrate the permutations:
  • One device in garage, one cable lobe to garage, no garage switch needed.
  • Two (or more) devices in garage, one cable lobe to garage, switch needed (with enough ports for the "uplink" lobe and all the end devices.)
  • One/two devices in garage, two cables to garage, no garage switch needed. (Though house switch and/or router will need enough switch ports so service both cables to the garage.)
  • More than two devices in garage, two cables to garage, garage switch needed. (Only one "uplink" cable can be active - see below.)
Beware that you cannot use multiple physical links between switches (BTW - the "LAN" ports in your router are a built in switch.) Some people posit the idea that "if I run two cables between two switches, it will double the capacity." However, if you do that you will have created a "loop" in the topology and that will cause your LAN to gridlock very quickly as it fills up with endlessly circling traffic. There is a technology (called "Link Aggregation") than can facilitate this, but most SOHO kit doesn't have LA, so all switch--switch and/or switch--router interlinks must be a single physical link only.
 
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strick206

Standard Member
I wouldn't bother with a patch panel unless you are running further cabling around the garage. Terminate in a RJ45 wall box and a patch lead from there to the switch. Patch panel is used for connecting two cables together in a flexible way, its not active and it does not provide actual network connection, that is what the switch is for.

Also if you running a cable then run two cables in case you have any problems with first cable.

And as has been suggested above you can get external cable and run it in trunking instead of using armoured cable.

Thanks for this I think this makes sense

The TV has a one connect box so almost everything is in the same place

The only things I’ll need to run are to the AP on the ceiling and provision for a POE CCTV at the back of the garage

I think you may be right that a four or so port wall plate would be sufficient for what I need as the rest will need to go into the switch
 

strick206

Standard Member
In ethernet networking, there can only be one "active" thing on the end of any cable lobe (e.g. router, switch, AP, PC, TV - whatever.) If you have enough cables run from house to garage to facilitate the number of devices in the garage, then you don't need a switch. If not, you do. (Regardless of whether you use a PP or not.)

Some worked examples perhaps might help illustrate the permutations:
  • One device in garage, one cable lobe to garage, no garage switch needed.
  • Two (or more) devices in garage, one cable lobe to garage, switch needed (with enough ports for the "uplink" lobe and all the end devices.)
  • One/two devices in garage, two cables to garage, no garage switch needed. (Though house switch and/or router will need enough switch ports so service both cables to the garage.)
  • More than two devices in garage, two cables to garage, garage switch needed. (Only one "uplink" cable can be active - see below.)

Excellent thanks mickevh,

I've taken the advice on here and gone for an external rated UTP that i will run in trunking instead of armoured, this will mean i will be able to run it straight into the garage and around to the wall plate with less connections

Decided against a patch panel as a wall plate will do it, i've ordered one with four ports on, all of which will be used so i've ordered two just in case i think of something else i may want to run as provision for the future but not sure of anything at the moment

Beware that you cannot use multiple physical links between switches (BTW - the "LAN" ports in your router are a built in switch.) Some people posit the idea that "if I run two cables between two switches, it will double the capacity." However, if you do that you will have created a "loop" in the topology and that will cause your LAN to gridlock very quickly as it fills up with endlessly circling traffic. There is a technology (called "Link Aggregation") than can facilitate this, but most SOHO kit doesn't have LA, so all switch--switch and/or switch--router interlinks must be a single physical link only.

Thanks again, this is a bit beyond me at the minute but i won't be plasterboarding for a day or two so will do some reading up on this now


The advice on here is if you need one, run two, does that include running a second one to each device i will be using, so two cables to the AP and two to the POE CCTV?
 

oneman

Well-known Member
If you are going for a 4 port wall plate you will need 4 cables run to your garage and 4 port in the router or switch in your house. Easiest thing is get a 8 port switch for the garage (this will give you 7 devices plus one uplink to the house). If you AP and Camera are POE then probably worth getting a POE capable switch though make sure it can supply enough power.

Run two cables to the garage, but only one needs connecting to your router or switch in the house and you have one as a backup.
 

strick206

Standard Member
Thanks oneman,

I think that's what i was planning but maybe explained badly, or i could be completely wrong

I was going to do the following

Run 2 cables to the garage, have the first one terminated in port 1 of the wall plate, the output of that would then go to a network switch (the second cable would lie loose but reachable behind the wall plate should the first ever fail)

Then run a second patch cable, from the POE Camera, and connect into wall plate port 2, the output of that then into the switch

The third would do the same but from the AP

And a fourth doing the same as provision for another camera on the front of the garage
 

mickevh

Distinguished Member
The advice on here is if you need one, run two, does that include running a second one to each device i will be using, so two cables to the AP and two to the POE CCTV?

You can do (indeed, I've done it in the past,) but it depends really on how risk averse you are versus how much you want to spend and how difficult it would be to re-provision a cable if (highly unlikely as it is) it goes bad.

"At work" whenever anyone wants a new data socket put somewhere, standing instructions to my sparkies in house are to "always pull two" (cables.) In an office environment, especially when you are spending someone else's money, the additional materials and labour cost is minimal and it's surprising often how often we find a use for "Just one more thing" later on. For example, someone puts a computer on a desk and then 6 months later wants a printer too.

So it's not necessary to literally "double up" everything, but the aim is to have sufficient redundancy in place to give us a sporting chance for significant links like a building to building link. Having only a single cable in such a situation gives us a potential single point of failure. Having two of more (even if both are in use) gives us some "options" if a line goes bad. Though chances are if someone puts a spade through them, they're just as likely to sever both.
 
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strick206

Standard Member
Thank you, i've got plenty cable so i could look to run two everywhere, it would be a pain if any did fail in the future so probably much more cost effective

Agree with you on the armoured, but as the garden needs to be redone, and it likely having a raised bed its highly unlikely anyone would ever dig below ground level (artificial grass as well)

So normal cable in trunking like the advice on here makes more sense than armoured and simplifies the work too

I've ordered from CableMonkey so hopefully it will arrive tomorrow and i can run it all out

Now i'm not using armoured, i could even run the two cables through the garden all the way to the patch panel in the house when it is built, i was only separating it due to the cost of armoured

Given it is in trunking and none of it will be exposed, i wouldn't even need to use the external grade cable either so wouldn't waste 30m of it twice running inside the house either (bought the external grade so that i can do my dads house to get from the house to the mancave, the wifi is great through the Orbi but seems to struggle when the weather is poor so much more reliable to wire it (its about 15m - 20m from orbi 2 to orbi 3 in that setup)
 

oneman

Well-known Member
Thanks oneman,

I think that's what i was planning but maybe explained badly, or i could be completely wrong

I was going to do the following

Run 2 cables to the garage, have the first one terminated in port 1 of the wall plate, the output of that would then go to a network switch (the second cable would lie loose but reachable behind the wall plate should the first ever fail)

Then run a second patch cable, from the POE Camera, and connect into wall plate port 2, the output of that then into the switch

The third would do the same but from the AP

And a fourth doing the same as provision for another camera on the front of the garage
Sounds good, I think you confused everyone by say patch panel when I think you meant switch
 

strick206

Standard Member
Sounds good, I think you confused everyone by say patch panel when I think you meant switch

Thanks oneman, my lack of understanding on what a patch panel does didn't help, now i know i need both and the garage is a small scale conversion wall plates are fine

I'm sat waiting for the CableMonkey delivery now, only ordered at 1500 yesterday and due between 1100 and 1300 so very happy with that
 

strick206

Standard Member
I've decided on the Unifi 6 Lite AP as well now, just need to find somwhere in stock, i dont really need wifi 6 but they are good value and more future proof otherwise i'd get the wifi 5 lite one

Reading up on POE switches now following the advice above about the ports being different rates which would never have crossed my mind
 

mickevh

Distinguished Member
Wiki's primer on POE is quite good. There's a few different versions of POE now, including a few proprietary ones. I'd stick to IEEE "standards" based POE if you can for best compatibility. Mostly the different IEEE versions are about the amount of power they can deliver. The key is to ensure the POE injecting device complies with the POE version required by the end point (and/or vice versa.)

For a single device you might contemplate using a separate POE injector rather than a POE switch, though using an injector is a less neat solution as it's an extra box and extra cables. A POE switch is much neater.

Some stand alone "single" AP's come with a POE injector supplied, as opposed to a "wall wart" PSU. It's worth checking though rather than "just assuming" because a lot of equipment that's designed to be supplied in bulk often does not include POE injectors. For example, if I'm buying a couple of hundred AP's for a big enterprise deployment, usually they do not ship with POE injectors (or wall warts.)
 

strick206

Standard Member
Wiki's primer on POE is quite good. There's a few different versions of POE now, including a few proprietary ones. I'd stick to IEEE "standards" based POE if you can for best compatibility. Mostly the different IEEE versions are about the amount of power they can deliver. The key is to ensure the POE injecting device complies with the POE version required by the end point (and/or vice versa.)

For a single device you might contemplate using a separate POE injector rather than a POE switch, though using an injector is a less neat solution as it's an extra box and extra cables. A POE switch is much neater.

Some stand alone "single" AP's come with a POE injector supplied, as opposed to a "wall wart" PSU. It's worth checking though rather than "just assuming" because a lot of equipment that's designed to be supplied in bulk often does not include POE injectors. For example, if I'm buying a couple of hundred AP's for a big enterprise deployment, usually they do not ship with POE injectors (or wall warts.)

Thanks Mick

The AP I’m buying doesn’t come with an injector so going to go for the POE switch suggestion to keep it tidy

I’ve done some research on POE CCTV today so just looking to figure out a couple of questions on that in another thread and then I’ll be able to get it all ordered

Thanks again for your help, the cabling has arrived and I’m currently running that out ready for plasterboarding tomorrow 😀
 

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