Gaming PC Spec

fortknoxcj

Active Member
Apologies for the hijack, seems we are both in the same position. My son is 9 and now wants to go from xbox to PC and it doesn't seem as simple as console buying and playing.

Hope the replies from my hijacking have been helpful 🙂

Happy to follow from a distance.
It’s fine I’m only joking!
 

rb5201

Well-known Member
It’s fine I’m only joking!
Thought you were but you never know on here, 99% are brilliant but there's always that one 😅

Why can't buying a pc be as easy as a console. I guess for most that's half the fun. At the moment I don't know what good as what's not good.

Some good info so far from here though.
 

Coulson

Distinguished Member
Thought you were but you never know on here, 99% are brilliant but there's always that one 😅

Why can't buying a pc be as easy as a console. I guess for most that's half the fun. At the moment I don't know what good as what's not good.

Some good info so far from here though.
Although it may seem counter-intuitive, buying a desktop can be easier than buying a laptop because most people buy a laptop just to be a laptop. They don't know or worry about cooling, thermals and actual GPU and CPU performance in light of those issues.
 

Delvey

Distinguished Member
Its water cooling essential at this point?
A proper water cooling setup will set you back about £400.
A decent AIO will cost you about £80 and the difference in temperature will be small.
If you want to cool the GPU add £150 for a waterblock and another £50 for a second radiator.
 

rb5201

Well-known Member
Although it may seem counter-intuitive, buying a desktop can be easier than buying a laptop because most people buy a laptop just to be a laptop. They don't know or worry about cooling, thermals and actual GPU and CPU performance in light of those issues.
Did you mean laptop or console? 😅
 

Coulson

Distinguished Member
Did you mean laptop or console? 😅
Laptop :) People buy laptops similar to how you buy a console though which they absolutely shouldn't unless they are buying a very cheap or very expensive one :)
 

fortknoxcj

Active Member
I reckon you'll need a 5600X and no more than a 3060TI/3070/6700XT and even then I think that's over kill. But if he's now obsessed high FPS that would do the trick. Either that or see if you can get a 6700 when it turns up. Don't think the 3060 is quite good enough. A 2070S or 2080 would be ok as well I think for 1080p high refresh rate.

Perf wise 3060, 2070S, 2080, 2080S/3060TI/6700XT, 3070/2080TI.

But the 6700XT fluctuates between a 3060TI and a 3070 or better depending on the game.
Cheapest build i've found with a 3070 so far is £1,300, which is with an i5 10400F
 

Coulson

Distinguished Member
Cheapest build i've found with a 3070 so far is £1,300, which is with an i5 10400F
Unfortunately, considering the price of a 3070 this is probably a good deal, depending of course on the rest of the package.
 

eaglemmoomin

Active Member
Cheapest build i've found with a 3070 so far is £1,300, which is with an i5 10400F
If he's targeting 1080p high refresh you might want to go off and check Hardware unboxed and Gamers Nexus reviews of the 3070 with the I5 10400F to make sure you'll get the best performance out of the 3070. It's possible (not entirely sure) that depending on the graphics settings he wants to use. An AMD GPU might be a better pairing with the 6 core CPU. There's some weird behavior that occurs with NVidia GPUs in CPU limited circumstances and 1080P high FPS gaming is a case where you can end up CPU limited. H/W Unboxed has a really good series of videos about it.
Relates to issues with DX12/Vulkan games where the games can now max out the CPU and NVidias drivers rely on the drivers and thus the CPU for some pipeline scheduling (from memory) so if the CPU is under load already performance on an NVidia GPU can take a real hit relative to an AMD GPU that uses a H/W scheduler.

Might not effect the 10400F but it's did apparently effect Coffee Lake I5s/Ryzen 3600s apparently with NVidia GPUs worth checking since he's all about the FPS and won't be getting himself into a GPU bound situation.
 

Coulson

Distinguished Member
If he's targeting 1080p high refresh you might want to go off and check Hardware unboxed and Gamers Nexus reviews of the 3070 with the I5 10400F to make sure you'll get the best performance out of the 3070. It's possible (not entirely sure) that depending on the graphics settings he wants to use. An AMD GPU might be a better pairing with the 6 core CPU. There's some weird behavior that occurs with NVidia GPUs in CPU limited circumstances and 1080P high FPS gaming is a case where you can end up CPU limited. H/W Unboxed has a really good series of videos about it.
Relates to issues with DX12/Vulkan games where the games can now max out the CPU and NVidias drivers rely on the drivers and thus the CPU for some pipeline scheduling (from memory) so if the CPU is under load already performance on an NVidia GPU can take a real hit relative to an AMD GPU that uses a H/W scheduler.

Might not effect the 10400F but it's did apparently effect Coffee Lake I5s/Ryzen 3600s apparently with NVidia GPUs worth checking since he's all about the FPS and won't be getting himself into a GPU bound situation.
The i5 is not a low spec CPU and the 3070 is only a medium spec GPU. Even if there is an effect, it will be minimal. This is more relevant to i3 CPUs and 3080 and above GPUs.
 

Delvey

Distinguished Member
The i5 is not a low spec CPU and the 3070 is only a medium spec GPU. Even if there is an effect, it will be minimal. This is more relevant to i3 CPUs and 3080 and above GPUs.
Having owned a 3600 and a 3070 (and running a 3080), it can be an issue. Especially with ray tracing becoming more and more common in games. I couldn't hit 60 FPS on Battlefield V at 1080p with a 3600 and 3080 with ray tracing on.
 

Coulson

Distinguished Member
Having owned a 3600 and a 3070 (and running a 3080), it can be an issue. Especially with ray tracing becoming more and more common in games. I couldn't hit 60 FPS on Battlefield V at 1080p with a 3600 and 3080 with ray tracing on.
...and with an AMD GPU you would be lucky to hit 40fps with Ray Tracing since it is first gen and they still don't have DLSS.

I've seen the same reports and videos. Bottom line, any effect will at worst be minor and irrelevant for an i5 with 3060ti and above.
 
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eaglemmoomin

Active Member
And with an AMD GPU you would be lucky to hit 40fps with Ray Tracing since it is first gen and they still don't have DLSS.

I've seen the same reports and videos. Bottom line, any effect will at worst be minor and irrelevant for an i5 with 3060ti and above.
The graphs suggest at 1080p when chasing high FPS ie running at non ultra settings that there is an issue. At 23:36 in this Q/A there's some more discussion
Looks like on a board with DDR4 2666Mhz support then it can be an issue with NVidia GPUs and i5 8400F/9400F. Thought B460/H410 had that limitation.

So to me it looks more like a 3060TI and up for high refresh at 1080P and an i3/i5 on a non Z board could indeed be a problem. At higher settings + resolution you are GPU limited so no it won't matter there.

Anyway I don't want to derail the thread. Just want to make sure if a prebuilt is involved that the mobo chipset and the DDR4 RAM is considered if an NVidia GPU is involved.
 
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Coulson

Distinguished Member
The graphs suggest at 1080p when chasing high FPS ie running at non ultra settings that there is an issue. At 23:36 in this Q/A there's some more discussion So to me it looks more like a 3060TI and up for high refresh at 1080P and an i3/i5 on a non Z board could indeed be a problem. At higher settings + resolution you are GPU limited so no it won't matter there.
I think your comment above covers it. It "could" be a problem but as they said "it depends".

But I think the point here is that for games like Fortnite there is more likely to be a problem so if that is what they are interested in, then they should consider the Radeon. Personally I think that right now he should be happy if he can get a decent GPU plus I also think we've just seriously confused the guy lol.

P.S. I know technically there isn't that much difference between a 9400F and10400F but I wonder if the same applies?
 
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fortknoxcj

Active Member
Thanks all. Not so much confusing, just a balancing act to get him something that is a much higher frame rate, as that seems to be the key thing he is trying to achieve.

We don't want to spend a lot of money on something that is considered rubbish in 12 months time, but equally its easy to keep creeping up spec and price.

From the above i took to aiming for a 5600x and a 3070 build. That's come up above the initial budget, so it may be sacrificing either the CPU of GPU or indeed both

A Ryzen 5 3600 with a 5700XT is about 1K.

So just a case of keeping an eye out for the builds involving a combination of those.

If we went down to a 3060 there is a far more choice, but ive taken that is a definite step down.
 

Delvey

Distinguished Member
A Ryzen 5 3600 with a 5700XT is about 1K.
I wouldn't bother. Plenty of deals about where you can get a better GPU. The 3600 is fine.
 

Delvey

Distinguished Member

eaglemmoomin

Active Member
Decent spec but get 16GB of RAM with a speed higher than 3000mhz if possible.
Looks like they've properly shaved the spec on the RAM and storage. The SSD is tiny. Everything else looks good. To buy the bits seperately 16GB DDR4 3000+ that's about £100ish, 1TB NVME is £150ish. So you'll be back at £1300ish again. Altering the build to add 16GB 3200 Corsair Vengence
and 1TB Adata NVME (the SX8200 Pro) that goes up to £1215ish which I think is still a really good price.
 

Delvey

Distinguished Member
Looks like they've properly shaved the spec on the RAM and storage. The SSD is tiny. Everything else looks good. To buy the bits seperately 16GB DDR4 3000+ that's about £100ish, 1TB NVME is £150ish. So you'll be back at £1300ish again. Altering the build to add 16GB 3200 Corsair Vengence
and 1TB Adata NVME (the SX8200 Pro) that goes up to £1215ish which I think is still a really good price.
Those prices are a little old.
16GB can be had for £80 or less with offers.
1TB NVME are as low as £80.
Still an additional £160 but worth it (and maybe easier to upgrade from the seller)
 

eaglemmoomin

Active Member
Those prices are a little old.
16GB can be had for £80 or less with offers.
1TB NVME are as low as £80.
Still an additional £150 but worth it
That's for a PCIE 4 SSD with decent read and write speeds. There seem to be a lot where the read speed is ok but the write speed isn't. Those are based on Scans prices approximately circa a day or two ago. Was looking to see how much CL 14 RAM was going for.
 

anlygi

Well-known Member
Thanks all. Not so much confusing, just a balancing act to get him something that is a much higher frame rate, as that seems to be the key thing he is trying to achieve.

We don't want to spend a lot of money on something that is considered rubbish in 12 months time, but equally its easy to keep creeping up spec and price.

From the above i took to aiming for a 5600x and a 3070 build. That's come up above the initial budget, so it may be sacrificing either the CPU of GPU or indeed both

A Ryzen 5 3600 with a 5700XT is about 1K.

So just a case of keeping an eye out for the builds involving a combination of those.

If we went down to a 3060 there is a far more choice, but ive taken that is a definite step down.

Very easy to get carried away, especially if it's a first build (first desktop/gaming PC in many years for me) and you need absolutely everything. I set out to spend £1300 and here I am £1900 in, if all peripherals are included. I got my 3070 and 5600x for retail prices too, £469 and £275.

I did spend more than I intended to, and needed to, on a few things, splashing £160 on my motherboard, £100 keyboard, £100 sound bar and my monitor, though it technically cost me nothing as my wife bought me it. I only found out how much I'd spent when I added it all up in a spreadsheet after as I was curious, as I collected components over a few months. Quite a few of my purchases were offers too!

Once you get over the initial outlay it's just a case of upgrading bits here and there down the line.
 
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Delvey

Distinguished Member
That's for a PCIE 4 SSD with decent read and write speeds. There seem to be a lot where the read speed is ok but the write speed isn't. Those are based on Scans prices approximately circa a day or two ago. Was looking to see how much CL 14 RAM was going for.
I've got a western digital blue as my M2 drive and the write speeds are great. 600 Mb/s last time I moved a large game.
RAM, yes CL14 may give you an extra 1 or 2 FPS but not worth the extra cash.
The WD blue 1TB M2 is currently £83 and 16GB of 3200 RAM is £80 which would be a significant upgrade.
 

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