1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Gamecube - black bars at L/R sides of screen?

Discussion in 'General Video Gaming Chat' started by John Jennings, Jun 13, 2002.

  1. John Jennings

    John Jennings
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2001
    Messages:
    282
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Uppsala, Sweden
    Ratings:
    +5
    Just got a gamecube (plain vanilla Euro PAL version) and all the games I've tried have thin black bars at both sides of the screen (about 5mm either side).

    Is this normal on the Gamecube? I know that I'm gonna get black bars at the top & bottom when running in 50Hz (that go when running in 60Hz), but I get left & right bars in both 50Hz and 60Hz!

    Not especially annoying, it just seems a little odd as I've never seen another console that does this.

    John
     
  2. NeoBlade

    NeoBlade
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I'm assuming that you're using a 4:3 TV since the horizontal black borders would be a lot larger than 5mm on a 16:9 set. It must be said thats quite an odd problem... What type of connection are you using? Composite? RGB Scart? Component?

    Have you tested your other consoles and equipment (Sky, VCR, DVD Player, etc) for the same symptoms?

    With the information presented it does sound like its your TV... I haven't heard of such a problem before to be honest.

    BTW which games have the 60Hz option? I know Rogue Leader has but what else...
     
  3. fuzzybee

    fuzzybee
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2002
    Messages:
    1,477
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    Chesterfield town of the crooked (Spire)
    Ratings:
    +72
    John

    I have no black borders either side of the screen with my palGC so all I can say is it must be your tv?:confused:
     
  4. beowulf

    beowulf
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2002
    Messages:
    922
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Ratings:
    +28
    What is rather annoying is there doesnt seem to be a widescreen option to the GC and its games unlike the PS2 - unless I'm missing something..
     
  5. NeoBlade

    NeoBlade
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    There are only a handful of games on the PS2 that run in widescreen anyway. GT3, GTA3, Jak and Daxter and Burnout are the only ones I know of that supports the 16:9 ratio. Other games like Capcom Vs SNK 2 automatically gets zoomed in by my TV and give it the impression of widescreen, but its not. The same goes for Devil May Cry, FFX, etc.
     
  6. beowulf

    beowulf
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2002
    Messages:
    922
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Ratings:
    +28
    OK , since all I ever play is GTA3 - fair enough..

    Is there an option for WS on the GC - or will that be up to the individual game cos?
     
  7. fuzzybee

    fuzzybee
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2002
    Messages:
    1,477
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    Chesterfield town of the crooked (Spire)
    Ratings:
    +72
    You are missing the point here mate the aspect ratio you set your ps2 to like the Xbox ie 4:3 letterbox or 16:9 is for dvd film playback only nothing to do with games.
    The GC does not play dvd films so no option.

    The individual game must have a widescreen option in it for it to play in widescreen.

    I know VS3 on gamecube has a widescreen option and as for a tv zooming in to make a game fullscreen on a pal tv like devil may cry and capcom v's snk 2,
    this is due to pathetic pal conversions with massive borders so if a widescreen tv is set to the correct setting it will autozoom to fill the screen but the game will still play slower than its ntsc cousin.
     
  8. beowulf

    beowulf
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2002
    Messages:
    922
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Ratings:
    +28
    GTA3 has an anamorphic option.

    So it doesnt only belong to dvd.
     
  9. gizlaroc

    gizlaroc
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2001
    Messages:
    8,700
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Norwich
    Ratings:
    +607
    the anamorphic mode in GTA3 is in the game , not selected in the ps2 menu.

    if you choose 4:3 in the menu you can still play GTA3 in anamorphic if you select widescreen in the game.

    I really cant see why widescreen mode is that important for games anyway, most of the games we play are not photorealistic and therefore why does it matter if your litttle blue hedgehog , or short dumpy plumber look, well, a little shorter and dumpier than they would on a 4:3 screen.

    I choose wide mode for all my games the only option I don't choose is smart / super zoom or whatever your manufacture chooses to call it.
    this just distorts the image and looks crap.
     
  10. NeoBlade

    NeoBlade
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I know of the poor PAL conversions, ever since the SNES days but I was just making sure that the person in question wasn't getting confused with the auto zoom feature of some TVs. You would have to set the aspect ratio and Hz speed in the game if they offer the option to do so, as explained by Fuzzybee (BTW Final Fantasy X PAL must rank next to DMC as the worst PAL conversion yet, good thing I have the Japanese Final Fantasy X: International...).

    I don't know many games on the Gamecube that supports 16:9... Other than Eternal Darkness so far. I've only got Rogue, Monkey Ball, Melee, Soccer Slam, Wave Race and Resident Evil so far and they don't have the option. Someone said that the game has to be in prog.scan for the option to pop up, but I can't confirm or deny this.

    It doesn't matter if its photorealistic or not, if we really did want this then we'd be playing PC games only. Having a wider viewing angle just makes it more attractive to look at, like for example Gran Turismo 3 and Jak and Daxter (probably the best optimised european game so far). Of course its down to the individual, so if you don't want to view games in widescreen then don't...

    Kinda contradicting yourself there... You say that you don't want a distorted image yet run all your games in a forced widescreen ratio... That in itself would distort the image quite badly for games designed to run in 4:3 only (especially for 3D fighting games).
     
  11. fuzzybee

    fuzzybee
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2002
    Messages:
    1,477
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    Chesterfield town of the crooked (Spire)
    Ratings:
    +72
    GTA3 has an anamorphic option.

    So it doesnt only belong to dvd.


    Yes it does only belong to dvd's

    Like gizlaroc correctly says GTA3,s anamorphic option is in the game's options just like it is in SSX Tricky absolutely nothing to do with what setting the ps2 is set at.

    I personally wish all games had a widescreen option just look at goldeneye on the N64 when you played it in the widescreen setting it added so much more to the game IMO

    Why oh why has halo not got a widescreen option?
     
  12. beowulf

    beowulf
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2002
    Messages:
    922
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Ratings:
    +28
    off topic - fuzzy why do you list all that junk at the end of your post?
     
  13. NeoBlade

    NeoBlade
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    lol I'll just pop in an answer for Fuzzybee until he replies himself...

    Its called a "Signature" Beowulf. Basically its a bit of text that is added automatically to every post you make. You can see mine at the bottom.

    As a new member you can add your own little quote or message at the bottom of your own posts when you edit your own profile.

    As for Fuzzybee's "junk" he's just listing the stuff he owns like the Toshiba TV (same as my current set), Denon AV receiver, etc... Most people do this to let others know... Could be seen as bragging, I don't know but it doesn't bother me. At least I know that if I have a problem with the same piece of equipment I can ask him for more information.

    Hope that helps.
     
  14. gizlaroc

    gizlaroc
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2001
    Messages:
    8,700
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Norwich
    Ratings:
    +607
    yeah i should have made myself a bit clearer earlier.
    I meant i dont like it in games using zoom mode when you get to the edge of the screen and your ship/car/character starts to get wider or whatever.
    at least in wide mode it fills the screen and the ditortion is constant.
     
  15. NeoBlade

    NeoBlade
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    That is annoying yeah.. Kinda reminds me of the PSX Street Fighter Alpha games.. Even though it was in the right ratio the characters would still go off screen. Gotta hate the zoom modes though.. Someone said it was Pin8 on the scart leads that disables the auto ratio thing.. I can't rememberr >_<
     
  16. beowulf

    beowulf
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2002
    Messages:
    922
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Ratings:
    +28
    oh , i just thought it was a list of things that had gone wrong....

    :D :p
     
  17. fuzzybee

    fuzzybee
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2002
    Messages:
    1,477
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    Chesterfield town of the crooked (Spire)
    Ratings:
    +72
    Thanks for the answer on my behalf NeoBlade I did not realise some people may have taken it as bragging if it bothers anyone I will change it.
     
  18. beowulf

    beowulf
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2002
    Messages:
    922
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Ratings:
    +28
    no , dont bother me at all , its quite cool actually !

    is the dvd a us model or multi ?

    and what about the Tosh - is this some new wonder tv - a lot of people seem to be on about it - please enlighten !
     
  19. fuzzybee

    fuzzybee
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2002
    Messages:
    1,477
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    Chesterfield town of the crooked (Spire)
    Ratings:
    +72
    beowulf

    Yes mate it is a USA region 1 player which I have had since sept 98 but it is also able to play region 2 via a few button presses on the remote.

    As for the tv it is a stunning thing but it does have it's problems so I may be selling it to get the new toshiba which has Prog scan so I may also end up selling my pal GC and Xbox and getting the US versions for the benefit of Prog Scan via component inputs.

    I may also have to upgrade my DVD player this home cinema/gaming hobbie is very bloody expensive.
     
  20. John Jennings

    John Jennings
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2001
    Messages:
    282
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Uppsala, Sweden
    Ratings:
    +5
    FYI..

    I posted the same question to a Gamecube forum and quite a few other people there get borders down the left/right of the screen. It seems that if your TV has a lot of horizontal overscan then you don't get borders, but if it doesn't have much overscan then you do get the little borders.

    Dreamcast does the same thing to an even greater extent apparently.

    Anyways, I'm happy. It means I don't have much overscan on my telly :)

    John
     
  21. fuzzybee

    fuzzybee
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2002
    Messages:
    1,477
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    Chesterfield town of the crooked (Spire)
    Ratings:
    +72
    I have never heard of this overscan buisness?
    What tv are you using is it a widescreen or 4:3 and what make is it.

    I may be wrong but it sounds like someone has made this up to sound good.:confused:
     
  22. John Jennings

    John Jennings
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2001
    Messages:
    282
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Uppsala, Sweden
    Ratings:
    +5
    Overscan is well known about, I just didn't think of it at first when I saw what was happening on my GC. It makes perfect sense really.

    Basically, all TVs are set up to so a bit of the image is displayed off the edge of the visible screen. If this didn't happen you'd be able to see the very edge of the image and this would constantly be wobbling/pulsing due to brightness fluctuations and the fact that our electricity supplies aren't 100% stable. It'd be very distracting, hence the need for overscan. The amount of screen that's cropped offscreen (the 'overscan percentage') varies from TV to TV depending on how it's set up (service menus can be used to adjust it).

    I've got a widescreen TV. You still get horizontal cropping in 4:3 mode on widescreen TVs so that the edge of the image remains reasonably stable (ie the beginning of the black bars you get in 4:3 isn't the true edge of the image, a little of it is actually hidden behind the bars).

    Cheers,
    John
     
  23. fuzzybee

    fuzzybee
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2002
    Messages:
    1,477
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    Chesterfield town of the crooked (Spire)
    Ratings:
    +72
    So you are telling me all 6 tv's I have access to are all overscanning I do not think so.

    What you say about the image on a tv is true but that is not the answer to why you have small black bars either side.
     
  24. NeoBlade

    NeoBlade
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I agree that this AV rig business is damn expensive... And I've only been stepping into the budget arena! (Gotta love being an ex-student). At least I'm happy with the Marantz SR4200 and B&W speakers, it'll do the job until I get a house sometime.

    Anyway back on topic... This overscan thing is slightly pausable because consoles do have to draw a slightly larger image than the TVs resolution. For example Microsoft has claimed that even NTSC games run at PAL resolutions to ensure that the PAL port does not suffer from borders (although slower gameplay is another issue...).

    However I have tested all my consoles on all of my TVs and I haven't experienced such a problem, and I haven't heard it from other GameCube owners as well... So I would try the same console and setup with another TV just to confirm it all.

    Even the Toshiba has feint vertical bars about 1mm or so on either side, regardless of aspect ratio used... But not black bars. I would also re-check your connections, use a proper RGB scart enabled lead and not the one supplied to have the best signal quality (unless you own a plasma, then use component). It could be many things since you haven't stated your setup...
     
  25. beowulf

    beowulf
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2002
    Messages:
    922
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Ratings:
    +28
    most a/v gear is a rip-off

    the difference between mid & hi is not as great as made out

    McIntosh , Krell , Linn etc - mostly hype .

    I should know.
     
  26. John Jennings

    John Jennings
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2001
    Messages:
    282
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Uppsala, Sweden
    Ratings:
    +5
    After seeing them on my 28" widescreen I plugged my GC into my 14" portable and, whilst being much much smaller, they were still just noticeable along the edge of the TV casing.

    After that I plugged in my Playstation to have a look, and that's got small borders too. Very small, only a pixel or two on the left and right of the screen, and I'd never noticed them previously. The only way I could detect them was to turn the brightness way up on the TV, producing a narrow line of grey on each side of the screen (allowing me to distinguish the 'active' part of the screen from the 'dead' part of the screen (ie the standard borders you get when using a widescreen TV in 4:3 mode)). These borders are very narrow and you probably won't pick up on them unless you're really looking for them.

    RGB vs Composite (and I even tried RF) connections make no difference.

    I posted the same question over at the dvdforums and a guy there mentioned he had borders on his Gamecube and much bigger ones on his Dreamcast.

    I posted the same question on the Cube-Europe forum and three guys there said they get the same borders on their Gamecube, one again commenting that he gets bigger ones on his Dreamcast.

    Fuzzybee, yes all 6 of your TVs will have overscan on them. All TVs do, it's completely normal! It's the amount of overscan (the 'overscan percentage') that varies from TV to TV. To check this just pop a 1.85:1 Anamorphic DVD into your player. If you do have overscan it'll fill the screen from top to bottom (it shouldn't fill the screen as a 16:9 TV has an aspect ratio of 1.77:1). TV overscan nearly always hides the narrow borders you should get at the top and bottom of 1.85:1 DVDs

    I should stress that these left/right borders really are quite small on my Gamecube (only a few mm), and increasing the Horizontal Amplitude setting value by one causes them to be hidden by the overscan when I put the TV in widescreen mode (whereas they're there with the default setting). My TV just has a slightly lower overscan percentage than yours, it's nothing to worry about!

    Cheers,
    John
     
  27. fuzzybee

    fuzzybee
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2002
    Messages:
    1,477
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    Chesterfield town of the crooked (Spire)
    Ratings:
    +72
    I totally disagree with you about 1:85:1 anamorphic dvd's.
    When I purchased my tv about 4 months ago I borrowed a THX test dvd to set up my audio and visual equipment perfectly.

    On the dvd it gives you various test screens for geometry colour bleed etc etc.

    My tv is now set up perfectly to how this dvd says it should be.
    When you watch a non anamorphic dvd in 1:85:1 you do indeed get borders not big ones but they are there.
    When you watch a anamorphic 1:85:1 dvd with your widescreen tv set to wide mode and the dvd set to 16:9 there should be no borders anywhere on your tv.

    If you have borders with a anamorphic 1:85:1 dvd then your tv is set up wrong.

    Take a look at a non anamorphic 2.35:1 dvd the borders are huge but then take a look at a anamorphic 2.35:1 dvd and the borders are at least halved if not more.

    I have no black borders L+R with my GC or my Xbox I however do get them with my dreamcast which I have setup today just to test this.
     
  28. groundy

    groundy
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2001
    Messages:
    1,553
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    39
    Location:
    Northern Ireland
    Ratings:
    +1
    John Jennings is absolutely correct. All TV's have overscan which is usually within the 3-5% range but can sometimes be as much as 10%. Even 1:85:1 Anamorphic DVD's should technically have small borders at the top and bottom of a standrad 16:9 Widescreen TV - simply because a 16:9 is not 1:85:1.

    This is not to say you should adjust your H Amp and V Amp controls to remove overscan because a certain amount is needed and expected. With all my consoles, I notice borders of a few mm on my 32" Loewe Aconda precisely because I did remove a lot of the horizontal overscan which became evident when calibrating the NTSC setting via AVIA test disc. However there are no borders during DVD viewing which is what I optimally calibrated my set for.

    :)
     
  29. fuzzybee

    fuzzybee
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2002
    Messages:
    1,477
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    Chesterfield town of the crooked (Spire)
    Ratings:
    +72
  30. groundy

    groundy
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2001
    Messages:
    1,553
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    39
    Location:
    Northern Ireland
    Ratings:
    +1
    Well I won't blame you for reading less than factual information but that guide in the above link is not technically correct. It's simply assuming that the end user will not see any borders because of their TV's overscan or DVD stretching.

    There was a raging arguement about aspect ratio's a few months back on these forums. Uncle Eric made a great post on the subject. To quote him:

    Full thread can be found at:

    http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29963

    The fact remains that 16:9 is not 1.85:1, regardless of anamorphic compression or not. Small borders should be present as stated above. Does it really matter though? Afterall, I think most would agree it's nice that there are none. :)
     

Share This Page

Loading...