Game - Con or Not?

Discussion in 'Xbox Forums' started by Waynej, Mar 27, 2006.

  1. Waynej

    Waynej
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    As iv said in another thread my Xbox 360 knackered on Saturday. I rang up my local GAME who say they had no stock for a replacement. They then gave me the number of another nearby store, but they had no stock either.

    So this morning I'v been on the phone to game.net's customer service. Who were arranging a replacement for me, I was just waiting for them to call me back with an authorisation number before I post the faulty unit back. Whilst I was waiting for the phone call I decided to give my local GAME store a ring again, who then said they have more stock in. When I said I'll pop in with my faulty unit to replace the initially refused me, a quck call to GAME CS and getting them to ring the store sorted that.

    So I went down to take in the faulty unit and pick up my new one. But upon the lad doing the receipt, he crossed out todays date and written Dec 2nd. He said I'v had nearly 4 mths use out of it. I tried explaning that IMO when a faulty product is replaced you receive a new standard 12 mth warranty and the old warranty should become void.

    But meh, my main concern now is if hes fecked my guarantee up all together. As with someone writing on my receipt surely that would void it anyway?

    The question is what do I do about it now? Or is he actually right?

    Anyway, my new 360 seems great, its got the new drive and is nice and quiet. Whoever has the new one, when u turn it on its side, is it supposed to sound like theres a loose screw inside? My old one didn't, I'm just assuming its some form of detecting what side the console is laying on for the LED on the front.
    :suicide:
     
  2. sparkymark75

    sparkymark75
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    I'm no consumer law expert but I think he's right. If you get an item replaced under warranty, the 12 months doesn't begin again from the date of replacement.
     
  3. cheese_mcphee

    cheese_mcphee
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    That doesn't sound right at all (the warranty thing that is), I'd call up Game CS again and see if they can reprint you a receipt. If you can just cross out a date on a receipt, whats to stop you from crossing it out again and putting an earlier date?
     
  4. dannius

    dannius
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    Retails stores are a nightmare, I'd have gone straight to MS to save all the messing around. But I reckon with a new machine it'll have a new manufacturers warranty with MS.

    Yeah that sound is some sort of tilt switch so that the machine knows which way up it is.

    Glad your new one works ok though mate! :smashin:

    Dan
     
  5. Steve-L

    Steve-L
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    You assume correctly - it's a tilt switch so it knows how to arrange the circle of light LED's...
     
  6. UKCougar

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    Ooh, my first post. Hiya (-:

    I wouldn't expect to get a new 12 month warranty with a replacement unit. There's no law which says they have to give you a new unit, they're just legally obliged to rectify the problem. They could quite easily have given you a refurbished unit, so long as it was in as good a condition as your old one.

    I guess the only way you would have managed to get a new 12 month warranty is if you'd got a refund and then bought a new one, and they'd probably refuse to let you do that! If theoretically they did give you a new 12 month warranty on a repair / replacement, there'd be nothing to stop you repeatedly returning 'faulty' goods after eleven and a half months and effectively getting an infinite warranty.

    On the other hand, the reverse is also true; if your box died after 11 months, they should be giving you a new warranty -on the repair-. They can't just spin you along until the 12 months is up and then refuse to help. In this case, a three month extension would be a reasonable expectation I'd have said.

    Your warranty is still valid, irrespective of what the spotty 'erbert in Game has done to your receipt. You have statutory rights with regards to new goods, which the store can't waive - that's what 'statutory' means. So long as you have some proof of purchase (which doesn't have to be the original reciept, a bank statement will do if you paid by card), they have to honour the warranty or they're in breach of contract.

    Hope this helps. Disclaimer, I am not a lawyer, etc.
     
  7. Munkey Boy

    Munkey Boy
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    The employee should not have crossed out the date no, and what he's done hasn't invalidated your warranty with MS no, it is 12 months from when you receive your replacement. It hasn't changed the fact you can still take your 360 back to Game if it goes faulty in the next 6 months to get it exchanged no questions asked either. Bad practice by him doing it too, it's certainly shouldn't be Game policy.
     
  8. Munkey Boy

    Munkey Boy
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    Hi Cougar, sorry to shoot you down on your first post but this has a bit of flawed logic to it. If it did keep failing after 11 months or so, it points to an inherent fault with the product, and therefore you are absolutely entitled to a refund/repair. The warranty starts again when you get a replacement for sure.
     
  9. UKCougar

    UKCougar
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    No worries.

    I don't think it's quite that cut & dried. Bear in mind that the "12 month warranty" is in addition to your bare legal rights. You have up to six years to claim damages (ie, seek a repair) on faulty goods under the Sale of Goods act, it just gets trickier outside of the warranty period as you're dealing with statutory rights rather than shop policy.

    Assuming that the unit was replaced when the faults were discovered then it's either a faulty batch or design fault, or happening because of the way in which the owner is using it. In that situation it'd probably wind up in court for you to prove that such a fault was inherent and that the product wasn't being misused. After six months the onus is on the consumer to prove that there was an inherent fault, rather than on the supplier to prove that there isn't.

    With an ongoing problem, if it looks like a repair isn't working then you'd be entitled to a full or partial refund, depending on how much you'd had out of it. Again this would be for a court to decide.

    Warranties don't just "get reset" or run indefinitely, I'm afraid.
     
  10. sparkymark75

    sparkymark75
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    Which is what I thought but I'm damned if I could find anything on the web to back it up!
     
  11. Munkey Boy

    Munkey Boy
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    OK, I see what you're getting at Cougar. I think it's important to differentiate first off between the 12 month warranty offered by MS and your statutory rights as a consumer.

    Statutory rights as a consumer: If a product goes faulty within 6 months of purchase, you are entitled to a repair/replacement/refund (at the customers' discretion) from the retailer, unless the retailer can prove the goods were sold without an inherent fault. After the 6 months, it is still arguable that if your 360 goes bust through no fault of your own, you are entitled to a repair/replacement (at the retailers discretion) as it's not reasonable that such a high priced item goes faulty in that time. The decision whether it's been too long since purchase to be reasonable is made by a small claims court if necessary.

    MS warranty: Unless there is some small print I've not read, the warranty is tied to the age of the console since purchase or repair, not the bought from date. I know Apple repaired my 2nd iPod after it went faulty 18 months after my initial purchase free of charge, because it was within 12 months of receiving my replacement. The MS warranty can include whatever terms and conditions they want it to, because they write it and it is not compulsory to have one. I'll have to read up on this.
     
  12. stu.artd

    stu.artd
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    Your warranty does not start again after a replacement, you usually get offered the balance of the warranty or 90 days, whichever is greater. You can negotiate however, and I have successfully done this in the past. There is nothing in UK law stating that you get a full years warranty/guarantee with a replacement product. In fact there is no requirement to issue a warranty at all, as that's provided in addition to a consumers stautory rights. If the console did continue failing after 12 months or whatever then you're looking at statuory rights which have nothing to do with any warranty. Regarding an inherent fault, the onus is on the consumer to prove an inherent fault after 6 months since the purchase date have passed, prior to this time the onus is on the retailer/manufacturer to prove there is not an inherent fault.

    For more info on what you are entitled to then check
    http://www.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/facts/salegoodsact.htm
    http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi-bin/calitem.cgi?file=ADV0054-1111.txt

    I have copied one example from this page and pasted it below, it's in relation to a microwave but meets the same criteria as your returned 360.

    Q. I bought a microwave oven four months ago, and it went wrong. The shop has replaced it with a brand new one, which is working well. They won't, however, give me a new guarantee for this replacement. Can I demand one?

    A. No. Remember, guarantees are viewed as being an optional extra, and are provided in addition to your legal rights under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended). Manufacturers will usually argue that their intention is to provide you with extra protection under the guarantee for a fixed period of time after the initial purchase, often for twelve months. Therefore, no matter how many repairs or replacements you get, it is usual for the manufacturers to stick to this time limit. You can always try negotiating though - sometimes persistence pays off, especially if you have had lots of problems with a particular make or model.

    I'm not a lawyer, I just like to know what rights I do and don't have.
     
  13. Waynej

    Waynej
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    Thats what I thought would happen. I bought a TV from COMET years ago, it knackered under the extended warranty (3rd year) we had with COMET, we got a new replacement TV with 12mths, and we paid for extra cover on top. But they did include the standard 12 mths.

    So I would have thought that everything like that would be the same.
     
  14. bisoner

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    If Game are being awkward, take the faulty unit back to the store and demand a full refund - which you are entitled to under the Sales of Good Act. Then use the refunded cash to buy a new one. Don't mess around with returns etc if you can get away with it. There seems to be alot more stock around now so getting a replacement should be much easier and you will ensure you have a full 12 months warranty. Simple. :)

    Thanks

    Brad

    P.S. Note, you don't even need a receipt to take back faulty goods.
     
  15. po_man

    po_man
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    But surely you need some kind of proof of purchase?
     
  16. bisoner

    bisoner
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    Not according to the Sales of Goods Act.

    For refunds of items that are not faulty it is up to the store on what they want to do, i.e. full refund, store credit or do nothing - in these cases you will need a receipt.

    If goods are faulty, the law protects the consumer fairly well. Just because you lose your receipt does not free the seller from his contractual obligation as to 'fit for purpose'. If goods are faulty, you are entitled to a full refund - with or without the receipt.

    Thanks

    Brad
     
  17. UKCougar

    UKCougar
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    It's not unreasonable for them to want to prove the existence of a contract though. You might have bought the goods elsewhere.

    You don't need the receipt specifically for this, though, a bank statement or similar should be sufficient. The shop might not even have given you a receipt in the first place.
     
  18. Munkey Boy

    Munkey Boy
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    Yeah, OK, you don't need a receipt necessarily, but some proof of purchase is needed, like a bank statement for example.

    And thanks to stu.artd for the full explanation about warranties - they are indeed not compulsory by law, and alot of people confuse this with their statutory rights. The terms and conditions of the 12 month warranty (if there is one) should be included with the product, and all I can say is Apple honoured theirs on my iPod for the time after I received my replacement, not the bought from date.
     
  19. locky79

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    ok if you lose your reciept then theres a way to get the transaction details from HQ.

    if you bought your product using the reward card then you will be able to track your purchase as they log the details when they swipe your reward card.

    just call customer service, give them your reward card number and they will be able to track it.

    heres a tip for those who dont have a reward card. since they use ink jet or what ever it is to print reciepts, you will find that after a few months it will fade away, yup very naughty i admit :p so what you need to do is write down the transaction number inside the box or in a diary. The transaction number should be on the right side of the reciept and starts with T0x-xxxxxxxx

    hope this helps @.o
     
  20. Munkey Boy

    Munkey Boy
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    OK, think I've found the relevant part of the warranty that specifies if your warranty period is reset after repair:

    So it's 12 months from purchase, not repair. Shame about that.
     
  21. Waynej

    Waynej
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    Aye, that is a shame. Oh well. But if it knackers on the 11mth say, then would I get a new 12 mths?
     
  22. Munkey Boy

    Munkey Boy
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    No, the 12 months isn't extended, it would just be from whenever you originally bought it, contrary to what I was saying earlier in the thread (sorry about that!). The best thing to do after your 12 months would be to go back to the retailer if you can prove it's an inherent fault.
     
  23. Waynej

    Waynej
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    Meh. Oh well, it will probably go tits up again knowing my luck after the 12 mths.

    Luckily, I didn't bother with the extended warranty card from my old console, so there should be no messin with serial numbers.

    I think I'll just write that out and get it posted.

    Also back on the subject of my guaranttee... So I had the original console on Dec 2, so GAME are covering my new console with the old warranty basically. So I'v got just over 8 mths warranty with GAME.

    What about MS though. Do they guaranttee it as well, is there 2 guaranttees that run side by side (one with GAME for 8mths and one with MS for 12 mths).

    If yes, how do I prove to MS the date of me getting the replacement when the lad crossed the date out and written Dec 2nd.

    Lol this is all very confusing.
     
  24. triplea4uk

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    You should of just got refund in first place then got another one you would have new 12 month.

    You choose to take it to shop or use MS the warranty runs side by side but if ms replace it you then cant take it to the shop if its faulty you have to contact MS again they keep you on there records when you purchased it.
     
  25. Munkey Boy

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    OK, I think there's still some confusion here. The definitive answer:

    You do not have a warranty from Game, just your statutory rights as a consumer. This means that within 6 months of purchase of the original console, you are well covered and are entitled to a repair, refund or replacement unless the retailer can prove it's not an inherent fault (ie. you put a hammer through it). After 6 months, you're still covered, but the emphasis switches to you as the consumer to prove the product has an inherent fault.

    MS provide a 12 month warranty as their own choice to provide good customer service that starts from when you buy the original console and allows you to send it back to them, and they will repair/replace at no cost to you.
     
  26. Waynej

    Waynej
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    Aye, starting to look like I was wrong then. First I'v ever heard of it, thanks for the heads up though.

    I do think though that MS should provide 12mths from the date of me getting the new system. They might not have to, but they could do, as every other major store I've bought from seem to do that.
    :suicide:
     
  27. Gizmo 76

    Gizmo 76
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    Microsoft were very good with replacements on the original Xbox, when mine went tits up after 3 years of purchase, and they replaced the hard drive, dvd drive, motherboard within a week.

    I know the dvd drives in the old xbox had a problem with becoming unable to read some discs, but I think we have seen alot of common problems with the new 360, and if one of these is the cause for the malfunction I can see them helping you out even if your warranty is out of date.

    Fingers crossed these problems will never arise for the majority that purchased from the first batch, but knowing their history in this area I feel comfortable as a comsumer using their products.
     
  28. Valleyman

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    I always thought you got 90 days from the replacement if it was near the end of your warranty
     
  29. triplea4uk

    triplea4uk
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    No you dont the replacement takes the place the original was at also its worth £0 if you get something replaced so you cant get refund on that item.
     
  30. nick270881

    nick270881
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    Some shops are more approachable than others but, if you buy something and it you have to get it replaced within the guarantee period then the shop is well within its rights to only offer the remaining period of warranty!

    I used to work in retail and we had a similar policy whereby if something had a 12 month warranty and had to be replaced after 8 months then the MINIMUM guarantee period on the replacement product would have been 4 Months.

    Trading standards were fully aware of this and had no problems with it.

    Unfortunately this is the case as there is always someone trying to take advantage of the system (we had a few people try this very same thing):

    (apologies for the off topic example but happened to me quite a bit in my previous line of work)

    Customer buys a pair of Golf shoes, 12 month waterproof warranty, brings them back after 10 months saying they are leaking! Ok - replacement given, 10 months later, same customer brings shoes in again saying they are leaking, should he get a new pair??? No - In theory he could go on with this for ever, never having to buy a new pair again.

    Now I am not in any way saying that this would be the case in this situation but the line has to be drawn somewhere, even though I hate game and will never set foot in any of their stores again (bundles only sir) they have no obligation to offer anything other than the remaining warranty period.

    Hope this can help, maybe email them saying how unhappy you are at the way you have been treated and you may even get some vouchers in return.:)
     

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