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Future Products - The Future

Discussion in 'Arcam Owners' Forum' started by StooMonster, Dec 30, 2004.

  1. StooMonster

    StooMonster
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    http://www.arcam.co.uk/thefuture.cfm "please return here at the end of the year for information about our new product category".

    Well, it's the end of the year ... where's the news?

    Perhaps we should fill the gap with idle speculation instead? How about...

    Network Digital Media Players, like Roku Labs products? http://www.rokulabs.com/

    Perhaps just sound. Perhaps video. Perhaps both.

    I would welcome these kind of products, also, network storage arrays. :)

    Apple and Microsoft formats compatible, lossless as well as compressed too.

    StooMonster
     
  2. StooMonster

    StooMonster
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  3. johndon

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    I believe that there is a multi room audio server on it's way in the FMJ range.

    John
     
  4. StooMonster

    StooMonster
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    Now we are talking ... IP audio servers, sounding good.

    I am waiting for replacement for AV8 that includes HDMI switching. :)

    StooMonster
     
  5. redknag

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    Me too. I have the money saved, but i'm not going to buy until they bring out a unit with HDMI switching.
     
  6. 8le6d4

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    google for MS250
     
  7. General Skanky

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    And me, but so that I can buy an AV8 cheap.:)
     
  8. sticker

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    Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.........AV8 upgrade :p
     
  9. Crustyloafer

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    There aint gonna be a HDMI upgrade for the AV8. I am not Arcam but I can be fairly certain of that.
     
  10. sticker

    sticker
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    I will be more than a little ****** off if the AV8 doesn't get upgraded, it will see me selling it and being my last piece of Arcam equipment I ever buy..............................I'm deadly serious
     
  11. cybersoga

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    A dvd player with an amazing deinterlacer and digital out? A miricle cure for arcam remotes?
     
  12. Audionyx

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    What do feel is wrong and needs to be addressed in an upgrade? Having just bought one, I am amazed at the performance for both movies and music. Looking at your stunning kit I don't understand what more you could want for ;)

    Ok - dpl2x would be nice - software update. Is HDMI switching really necessary when the best connection is direct from source to display? Also, until Sony stop being stupid re licensing SACD over HDMI is it not best to wait for future HDMI revisions to be ratified??

    Just my £0.02!

    Darren
     
  13. General Skanky

    General Skanky
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    Totally agree.

    The AV8 has all that is necessary imho. Software updates aside, what else does it need?

    From experience of chopping and changing, it's the point at which I'd stop at bar having limitless funds.
     
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    Darren,
    As things stand not a lot, DPL2x would be very nice, especally as lower value items in the Arcam and non Arcam line up have it.........................BUT one of the reasons I bought the AV8 was that the premise was that it was upgradable. There are a number of things out there that would be very welcome, for example digital output via something like firewire for SACD/DVDA, this would clear up a lot of my cabling problems. If you look at what Denon et al have done with upgrading their top end units to accept this, then its not (imo) unreasonable to expect a £3,000 item to have some kind of upgradability. I certainly didn't buy the AV8 for it to be a dead-end.

    I really find it hard to accept that a £3,000 pre is a dead end, but time will tell. I paid a hell of a lot of money to buy into the Arcam high end AV and yes thats a chance that I could have bought into other manufacturers line ups and been equally left out in the cold. BUT and I say again, the AV8 was touted as being modular in the press, I'm sure I'm not the only one that believed that. I'll reiterate that presently almost nothing is wrong with the AV8 but things move quickly in AV and I had hoped that the AV8 could move with them. Lets take as an example room correction EQ, now that would be the most welcome additional to the AV8, because as things stand that area is lacking. Ask any Tag DP owner about TMREQ and they will probably tell you that its the best upgrade they got. Tag was a prime example of upgradability but they are not the only ones out there that have offered that. If I had not wanted some kind of surety then I would have bought a cheaper reciever. AV isn't like hifi where things stand still for years on end and when you lay out £x,000 you want reassurance to some extent. If we are to treat high end AV like the computing world then the prices have to be realistic or parts inter-changable.
    John
     
  15. sticker

    sticker
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    Guy/Darren
    Is it really best straight to the display, in my experience its not or there is no difference, but convenience really scores. If this was the case then I would connect my Xbox, satellite, STB, DVD to the display, but I don't have the inputs on the display. Viewing each back to back I can see no difference between direct to display and via the AV8, BUT the convience and WAF increase dramatically. Until AV has "white goods" level of usability a lot of people, particually women will not want it or refuse to have it. Look on the plasma forum to see this in action, where people are getting the Pio HDE over the Pio MXE becasue of teh convenience and WAF.

    Agreed there is a time to call it quits, but I'm saying I don;t want a £3,000 pro to be left behind a £750 receiver in a years time as tech advances, is that too wrong?

    John
     
  16. Audionyx

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    John,

    I agree that future software updates should allow for new processing modes but TMREQ?? Of course Tag owners would say that it is the best thing since sliced bread - but could this be a case of owner justification? Is it not THX labs themselves who strongly caution against room equalisation?

    Your analogy to the IT market is a tad unfair as CPU, GPU evolution is only a product of gaming and entertainment market forces, not to mention poorly written software (bloated and inefficient). Wordperfect 4.2 still types a letter more or less the same as M$ Word 2003!!

    I certainly would hope for some sort of high bandwidth digital input sometime in the future for the AV8 but I would be cautious until Sony picks up its spat dummy re SACD! The mass market Japanese products have to remain competitive on features as the sound is a world appart from the detailed luxury we may have begun to take for granted :)

    Just think, 10-15 years from now we will look back on our antiquated DVD obsession that relied on screens and speakers to provide auditory and visual immersion!!

    Darren
     
  17. jont

    jont
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    AFAIR it has already been said that the next (v4 ?) s'ware upgrade will include DPLIIx processing and that should be out sometime this quarter (after they iron some late found bugs out) ...

    But hardware/modular upgrades surely are another matter, especially something like an hdmi/firewire interface card ... unless a large chunk of the analogue i/o interface side can be removed and a digital i/o card bolted in with the appropriate interfaces it can't happen ... and whilst in an ideal world that should be feasible, the design practicalities at the time may prove to be insurmountable ...

    The original arcam 10 amp (which I also owned) was modular but only ever had two cards available for it - the 5.1 DAVE card and the MARC multi-room card ... well three if you count the phono upgrade ... I'm sure Arcam would have liked to do more but the technology runs almost faster than the design/production cycle is able to keep up with ...

    Having said all that I'd love to be eating my words when a hdmi/firewire board is announced and I can lose the majority of my 30+ cables that hang out the back of my AV8 !!

    Jon
     
  18. Audionyx

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    Firewire aka iLink will most likely be superseded by HDMI.

    When I sell a computer system, I am often asked whether it is upgradeable. "Oh yes" (Churchill voice), I reply, but caution as to how far into the future that will remain the case.

    Take Intel's advances in microprocessor design - are all Pentium 4's the same? Initially introduced as a Socket 423 design it promised longevity through upgradeability. Then what do you know? 12 months later socket 478 arrives consigning the older design into obsolescence! Currently there is the transition to a new socket – 775.

    I reckon if we all had crystal balls (well that depends on how cold it is!) we would never buy another AV product. Tomorrow will always bring a more advanced technology but does that necessarily mean better?

    John : When you purchased the AV8 did it not represent one of the best performing and value for money processors at the time? Is it not too wrong to assume that since then different directions have been forced upon the industry outside of our control? Does it still sound as good and perform to the excellent level as the day you eagerly unpacked it and excitedly wired it into your system ;)
     
  19. sticker

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    Hi Darren,
    I don't see why some kind of room EQ couldn't be implemented if the design were upgradable enough, perhaps its a horsepower thing and the current chips haven't the capacity to do that. I'm not sure that Tag owners are saying it to justify their purchase, although most think its the only pre out there :devil:

    The analogy I was trying to use re PC was that individual components are upgradable, take my main PC it still uses the same floppy and case from 91, along the way over a period of time every thing else has been replaced, CPU, RAM. mobo, hd, psu. I was of the impression that the AV8 was module in nature and could be upgraded. Arcam did trumpet the fact that it was all done in house and the R&D cost $/£1 million. That was what I ws trying to infer, not that I needed an upgrade now, but if something significant came along then it would be nice to see the AV8 taken forward rather than an AV9 coming along.

    Hi Jon,
    V4 has certainly been a long time coming and I have seen elsewhere on the AVforums doubts cast as to whether it would happen and also one poster suggesting that this was an obvious thing to happen as Arcam chose the wrong supplier of the chips. I would certainly welcome dplx2 as a sign that the AV8 is to be taken forward and woul hope that given my impression that the AV8 was designed in a modular fashion the various I/O, chips etc could be replaced/upgrade. I would have thought that Arcam would have designed the Av8 in such a fashion to avoid future re-engineering costs and fabrication costs.

    All,
    I'm obviously not being very clear in that I'm not needing anything more from the AV8 at this present time, although I would like other things that revolve more around practicality and convienience, such as less cabling, WMA compatibility, HDMI 1.1, video upscaling, ( I don't want much ) :laugh: BUT what I do want is that my purchase is not a dead end. The reason i bought it was because of this and its inference that it was uogradable. IIRC Andy Dutton spoke about knowing what users wanted being very useful and hardware upgrades that could be considered. I could be jumping the gun on all this and Arcam will come good, I have no reason to doubt them, they seem honorable people and I for one am very please that people like Andy and JD take time out to contribute to this forum.

    I'll bow out now as I've got it off my chest.............its the heat here getting to me ;)

    John
     
  20. General Skanky

    General Skanky
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    Not much more to be said.

    Enjoying Oz John?:)
     
  21. sticker

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    Hi Guy,
    Oz is good thanks, too much sunshine, cold beer, good food..............its the lucky country don;t you know ;)

    john
     
  22. Audionyx

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    John,

    I guess the sunny hedonistic lifestyle down under has been no cure for chronic upgraditis!!!

    I upgraded from a Rotel 1098 which uses a PCI style modular design and I was hopeful for future upgrades by replacement cards (HDMI, uprated memory etc). Hopes were dashed when Rotel announced this was not possible/feasible. I was a little miffed that such a conducive design was not permitted to run to it's full potential.

    Enjoy your AV8 as it is, as I will mine and fingers crossed that maybe Arcam will offer some means of future upgradeability!!

    Best wishes

    Darren
     
  23. Miron

    Miron
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    I think DiVa processor was scheduled for CES2005, I recall reading some info from their USA distributor. FMJ could then follow...
    Not sure however...
     
  24. sticker

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    Hi Darren,
    Don't think they'll ever find a cure for upgraditis, its inbuilt in the male genome!!

    Interesting that you had the 1098, I was going to go for that but never got round to hearing it. How would you describe the difference in sound between that and the AV8?

    Regards
    John
     
  25. Audionyx

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    John,

    Perhaps sometime in the future, scientists will discover a virally induced gene altering cure for this terrible affliction. In the mean tiime, your speakers look like a rather lovely step up from my Kef Q series - ahem!!

    With regards to the 1098. It was very good for movies and was built to quite a high standard. The TFT screen ironically proved a problem as light spill was an issue (it glowed in the dark when nothing displayed). Moving to the AV8, I found the rear effects became more alive and the LFE channel gained greater impetus. Music in pure analogue direct gained greater detail and insight so all in all a good upgrade!!

    Regards

    Darren
     
  26. sticker

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    Hi Darren,
    Scientists will be banned from cahnging that gene by the big corporations :)

    Yep the Kef's are very good, from a music point of view I couldn't want anything else, from a movie point of view something like teh Genelecs are probably superior but alround and from an aesthetic point of view they are superb,

    Thanks for the insight on the 1098.

    Hopefully we'll get some feedback re new products and CES from JD & Andy Dutton

    Regards
    John
     
  27. warrj

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    Hi,

    As an AV8 owner I'm quite disappointed by the lack of upgrades for the AV8. It's a sad state of affairs when Arcam's high-end processor lacks processing modes found on much cheaper Arcam models. Arcam never explicitly said that upgrades to the AV8 would be made available. However, if they had stated that the AV8 was a dead-end then I would imagine that they wouldn't have sold quite so many 3K processors.

    Regards,

    Jules.
     
  28. Audionyx

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    Much like fuel-cell scientists have been bought into silence by Oil companies intent on sealing the fate of the planet with many more years of polution :suicide:

    I guess you got a good deal on the Kef reference series as £6k is uber money in anyones book! I keep getting tempted by M&K 850's or S-150's but need an all-rounder and my Kef's are superb for the money. Would love to hear and see the Reference range - oh bugger, upgraditis rash appearing again!!

    Take it easy,

    Darren
     
  29. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    I am most interested in their new £1400 - 1500 processor, HDMI switching and balanced outs :) Anyone know any more details?
     
  30. Audionyx

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    I guess Arcam are trying to compete with Lexicon's new MC-3, which has HDMI switching, firewire, enhanced 32-bit colour GUI, though with 3 DSP's instead of 5 for £1200 :D
     

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