Fussy Git Needs Help choosing a TV

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs Forum' started by Discombobulate, Apr 27, 2007.

  1. Discombobulate

    Discombobulate
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    Hi.

    I'm interested in getting a new tv and this seems to be the place where the experts live.

    My requirements are as follows and I'm finding it difficult to find a suitable model in my price range (it may be that I need to wait until prices drop).

    1) I'm looking for 42" (although I could live with 40"). I could strech to 46" but really no bigger than that.

    2) I'm told plasma is better than lcd at this range but if you tell me not then I'm happy to get an lcd.

    3) Must be 1080p. This is where I start getting confused. Some tv's say they "support" 1080p but all they seem to do is downscale this to their native resolution.

    4) Must display 1080p via the component and vga sockets as well as hdmi. I have an xbox 360 which doesn't have a hdmi socket.
    There are tv's that display 1080p via hdmi but will not via the vga and component. (note - if the tv only supports it by vga and hdmi I could probably live with this).

    5) Must be a recognised brand name. Yes I am a brand snob when it comes to to tv's. I'd prefer to stick to what I know so no unheard of brands (even if the panel is from a recognised brand).

    6) Want the tv on a pedastal stand as I already have a unit for it to go on. Not looking to wall mount. If it comes with a really really really nice unit that can house at least 5 pieces of av equipment and allow them to breathe then I'd be happy to pay the extra. I don't want my poor sky+ and xbox to overheat. They're toasty enough as it is.

    7) Price... My absolute maximum budget is £1000 although I'd like to spend around £800-£900 if at all possible.

    8) Warrently. Would like some kind of extended warrenty (3-5 years).

    9) Forgot to say. Must have good old scart sockets as well as I'll not be able to plug in my old kit otherwise. Prefer 3 RGB sockets but could live with 1 as I could buy a separate scart switcher.

    Yes I'm asking for a lot (fussy git that I am) and you'll probably tell me I need to wait 6 months before what I want comes in to my price range but I thought I'd ask anyway.

    Any help will be really appreciated.
     
  2. xit2050

    xit2050
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    You are a perfect match for a Panasonic TH-42PX70PED. :D
     
  3. jhazeldene

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    For £1000 ?

    Tell me where, I'm interested :)
     
  4. CHFels

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    Nope, he's not - look back at requirement 3). He wants genuine 1080p *resolution*, not just ability to accept the signal and downscale it.

    Binning, what you want does not yet exist in the plasma world, and when it does come out in June or July, it will be *way* over your budget.

    So something's got to give. You can either buy a Samsung or Toshiba LCD right now - if you shop around carefully and pay close attention to specs and reviews! - Sony's 1080p panels are well out of your price range; Or you can give up your 1080p demand, in which case a Panasonic PX70 may be just the ticket. Or a Samsung Q97, if you can accept setting your Xbox to output 720p instead of 1080p! (Why not, since the panel will scale it either way;) )

    CHFels
     
  5. pjskel

    pjskel
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    Almost CHFels - Sharp 42XD1 or 46XD1 for a bit more.
    http://www.pricerunner.co.uk/pl/2-734294/TVs/Sharp-LC42XD1E-Compare-Prices
    http://www.pricerunner.co.uk/pl/2-693349/TVs/Sharp-LC-46XD1E-Compare-Prices

    If you want the extended warranty bit, then you're looking at trying to get John Lewis to price match the above prices.

    2 points:
    Forget about 1080p over Component - won't happen. 1920x1080 over VGA doable if the TV accepts a native res signal over VGA - I'm sure the 360 will output it, but it will be upscaling the game. Movies are not upscaled, so the TV will be doing that. So your premise of the TV having to have 1080p native is a false economy.
    What distance are you able/planning to sit from the TV?

    You're not that fussy if you place specs above image quality. If you want something you can live with for some time to come, then for the same money as the 46XD1, you could have a 50PX70 which would be more rewarding on SD material. If budget is set, then you're looking at 42PX70, but don't discount the Pioneer 427, even though it's still similarly priced to the 50PX70.

    Bottom line - go to a store and spend some time looking at the two types of sets.
     
  6. MrLOL

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    not going to happen within your budget. 1080P plasmas are very rare at the moment, and those that are available, and a couple of grand

    Panasonic is releasing a 42" 1080P screen later this year, but will be nearer 2k than 1k im afraid

    basically, either accept a 1024 x 768 plasma that downscales 1080p, or buy an LCD.
     
  7. gizlaroc

    gizlaroc
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    What about the Sony 1080 LCD? Surely they can't be more than a couple fo hundred quid can they?? :)
     
  8. dj-dulux

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    For your budget I would seriously reconsider 1080p, in my opinion you are far wiser going for a 720p screen. This will give far better all round performance with SD material, sky and Xbox. I have used the Pioneer PDP-427XD and 50" version many times with Xbox and sky HD and you should be able to pick one up at slightly over your £1000 budget (I think).

    1080p is a marketing tool, don't get sucked in!

    Dupe...
     
  9. RayP

    RayP
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    Hasn't it been said many times on this forum that to see the full benefit of 1080 you need a 50" minimum? The difference between 720 and 1080 on a 42" is negligible so the oracles here say.
     
  10. Discombobulate

    Discombobulate
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    Well the marketting has definately worked on me. I still prefer a 1080p. I've seem other sites state the difference is over 40" rather than 50.

    I'm quite happy to forgoe some of the other requirements before this one.

    What about the Samsung's? I'm sure I remember a 40" 1080p screen being offered for £900 on a bargain website a short while back. Think it was a link to Dixons but might be wrong.

    The problem I have is how to work out if the 1080p is actually going to work via composite or vga or whether it's just via the HDMI. A lot of the websites that sell tv's don't go in to that much detail.

    Headache.
     
  11. gizlaroc

    gizlaroc
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    I would forget your quest for a couple of years mate, you will not get a 1080p screen for £800, or your maximum budget of £1000 either.

    The first 1080p screens that are that price will be terrible or ages away, simple as that.


    What other requirements are you 'willing to forgoe'?? A decent picture?
     
  12. gizlaroc

    gizlaroc
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    Requirements.....


    native 1080p panel
    Accept 1080p via hdmi
    Accept 1080p via component
    Accept 1080p via RGBhv
    Must be a major brand as you are a brand snob.
    Must come with a pedatal stand or a cabinet that can hold 5 pices of kit.
    Must have an extended warranty 3-5 years.
    Must be under £1000,but ideally £800.

    Pioneer 5000EX nearly fits the bill in all areas apart from one, but maybe worth a look?? ;)
     
  13. RayP

    RayP
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    To get 1080P you need a HD DVD player don't you and those cost a fortune and there is limited software avaiable. I don't own a PS3 or XBox so HD DVD is a long way off.

    £900 for a 1080P Samsung sounds like they have compromised on other components. There's so much more to a quality picture than lots of pixels.

    I'm sure you meant component and not composite. I would imagine that 1080P will be available via component-VGA and HDMI. For best quality I'd stick with HDMI.

    Cheers,
     
  14. Discombobulate

    Discombobulate
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    which one doesn't it fit? i'm guessing it costs loads?
     
  15. gizlaroc

    gizlaroc
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    £6000 but you can get it for a bit over £4k if you haggle hard! ;)
     
  16. choddo2006

    choddo2006
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    Clearly depends how far away you are.

    Note that the xbox is upscaling most of its games from 720p to 1080p in order to get that resolution output, the games don't natively draw at that res. Are you sure you need it? I think if you properly check out a 1grand 1080p LCD versus a 1grand PX70 you might reconsider how important 1080p really is.

    Or you could wait for the Panny PZ700 but that's still going to be over double your budget for the foreseeable future while they can still cash in on the hype.
     
  17. Discombobulate

    Discombobulate
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    what about the Samsung M86 series Available in 40" for £998 from Costco. includes 3 year warrenty.

    does this do 1080p via component/vga?
     
  18. gizlaroc

    gizlaroc
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    Maybe, but have you seen one running?? It becomes irrelivant with a picture like that! :)
     
  19. Discombobulate

    Discombobulate
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    What's the matter with the picture.

    I'm suprised with the feedback so far. A lot of you seem to dismiss 1080p out of hand.

    Why are you so focussed on this standard being of a lower quality or unacceptable level?

    Does anyone who's bitching about 1080p actually have a set is capable of this or is it just a case of saying it's rubbish to convince yourself you made the right choice going for 720p?

    If anyone does have a 1080p set it would be interesting to hear your perspective.
     
  20. gizlaroc

    gizlaroc
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    I have done loads of demos for people putting 1080 HD into two near identical screens, one was the 480 line panny commercial screen and the other was the 768 line panny commercial screen, hardly anyone could actually tell which was which, in fact the thing that gave it away was the posterisation in the SD screen, as most people in the room knew that the HD panel did a better job in this respect.

    I will buy one of the new screens, either a Pioneer or the Panasonics, but my decision will be based on whoch gives the better picture, I want better black levels, deeper and more detail, and this is far more important to me than resolution, so it will be the screen that has the best overall image that will win, not the one that has the better spec on paper.

    I don't think anyone is dismissing 1080 as a resolution, I am certainly not, but the Panasonic spec for their 1080 screen has a contrast ratio that is half what the 768p screen has, hopefully that will mean that it is not as bright and not that teh blacks are lighter, cause if they are lighter I wouldn't even consider it.

    How many flat panels have you owned? I have now had 4 Panasonic plasmas, 2 Pioneer plasmas an NEC plasma, 1 Samsung LCD, a Sony LCD and now on my second Panny LCD (LCDs are second sets btw) and the best one for black levels so far has been the PW6, which is a 480 line plasma, aaprt from posterisation this set was stunning with everything thrown at it including HD.
    I get the impression you don't own or haven't had a flat panel?? You are getting too hung up on specs, you need to buy which one gives the best image.

    :smashin:
     
  21. choddo2006

    choddo2006
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    I made the right choice if I didn't want to spend £6000, yes. I don't need much convincing of that.

    Plus, in 3-5 years, when 1080p sources become the norm, then it'll be more useful. Right now, 720p and SD sources are 99% of what gets shown on my screen. Even the PS3 doesn't draw all games at 1080p.

    And it isn't 1080p itself that's a problem (although with SD, it clearly has more upscaling work to do) - it's that 1080p for under a grand means you're looking at budget LCD and I don't personally like TV/movies on any LCD TVs I've seen, even the most expensive 1080p Sony. Games look great though.

    And you have to ask yourself, as per gizlaroc's post above, what do you stand to gain? If you're more than about 7' away, on a 40" screen, it's very hard or impossible to pick out that level of detail.

    If you're fussy about picture quality rather than numbers in a spec, get a Sony X40, a Pio 427 and a Panasonic PX70 set up next to each other in a proper demo room showing the same DVD and HD DVD and see what you personally think. Would be an interesting test.
     
  22. ///ajd

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    If it helps, I used to think I "needed" 1080p, and almost went for a SonyW2000 (!) but after hanging around on here I realised that resolution isn't everything, my blacks are very important to me and hence decided the 42PX70 was for me (arrives next week - £930 panel only price match JL cribbs delivered 5 yr). Sounds to me like it may suit you too. In my JL the PX70 was next to an LCD screen - both playing the same HD king kong movie - PX70 blacks were MUCH better.
     
  23. kjt2004

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    Have you had a demo of anything running 1080p yet , why are you fixated with 1080p please tell me you dont believe what you read in the magazines:eek:

    I also remmeber when people use to say HDMI was better than Component which it isnt just a digital connection.

    HD discs/players again more hype yes there is an improvement in PQ but depending on how far away you are , the best thing is the improvement in sound.

    Youre requirements cant yet be met so something has to give....

    God luck with your quest ............maybe a holy grail

    regards
     
  24. RayP

    RayP
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    The two most important things in flat screen technology in my eyes are...

    1. Quality of picture processing.

    2. Black levels.

    With a JS-Tech RGB-VGA box I get a SD picture that is totally acceptable on a 42" viewed from 8ft. That is a lot more difficult than what is asked of a CRT.

    Flat panel pictures are often criticised for the lack of a true black. In my mind this rules out any LCD. The Panasonics are recognised as having the best black levels around. The problem with the PX60 (and maybe 70) is the extremely reflective screen. This will be a killer in a bright room. In comparison the screen of a PH9 is much less reflective.

    Finally resolution. If any of you have the DVE DVD then you may have seen the exceptional picture quality of the reference material. It was shot in HD but on a PH9 when played on a quality DVD player (see my sig) it could pass as 720p. The quality of the PH9 really shines with this demo material. If all broadcast material was of this quality you wouldn't bother about the resolution.

    I'm not criticising binning but resolution is something pushed very hard by the AV press but in reality unless you have a 50" or larger screen and sit quite close you probably don't need 1080p. No broadcasters are even close to using it. Any 1080p equipped plasma will be very expensive and anything under £1500 will probably be compromised in other areas to keep the cost down.
     
  25. Discombobulate

    Discombobulate
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    I saw a Samsung tv (can't remember the model) but it was 40" and 1080p and was about £1200-£1300 in Currys but I could have got it for around £900 online (as part of a bargain thread - discount codes, egg cashback,etc).

    Anyway it was connected to a blueray player and blew me away. I've seen other sets connected and haven't had the same experience (inlcluding a Sony 1080p LCD set).

    My earlier post regarding the negativity stems from the intial reflex responses to the request.

    Comments like:
    "not going to happen within your budget. 1080P plasmas are very rare at the moment, and those that are available, and a couple of grand".

    "I would forget your quest for a couple of years mate, you will not get a 1080p screen for £800, or your maximum budget of £1000 either."

    I know I could have bought a 40" 1080P LCD for £900 as part of a bargain. Surely a 42" Plasma isn't going to cost £2000. How do they expect to compete with LCD if they're charging twice the price.

    Also I am a reasonably keen gamer and looking at the new releases a lot of games are coming out on 1080p and this doesn't look to be reserved for the best of the best titles (I was suprised to see that even Pirates of the Carribean is going to be 1080p). Despite comments suggesting 1080p inputs are very rare I think this is becoming more and more common for game releases. On a thread elsewhere somebody mentioned that the last 3 360 games they bought were all 1080p (GRAW 2, Virtua Tennis and Brian Lara).

    Also I'm not sure I agree with the comment:

    "Plus, in 3-5 years, when 1080p sources become the norm"

    This industry is a fast moving one. I can't see it taking up to half a decade for 1080p to become the norm for digital inputs. Unless I'm mistaken most blue ray players/hd-dvds already do this. A reasonable percentage of the upcoming games this year also seem to be supporting 1080p. 3-5 years seems to be a lot of time.

    Either way I agree picture quality is king at the end of the day but surely if there are 1080p sets out there for less than a grand (which I know there are despite suggestions that I'd have to pay £2k for one) these are going to show 1080p inputs better than a 720p set? No?
     
  26. Discombobulate

    Discombobulate
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    By the way I have no vested interest in 1080p as I don't currently own one so I'm not trying to justify a purchase.

    If you persuade me that 720p is the way forward then I will accept that.

    It's just that from the initial reaction it seems the people slating 1080p all have 720p sets.

    I'd imagine in the same way that all the people who have bought a blue ray player will slate HD-DVD and vice-versa (not quite but you get the principle).

    1080p vs 720p

    I've heard a lot from the 720p owners club. Surely there must be someone out there who owns a 1080p set that could provide some balance to the discussion.
     
  27. kjt2004

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    And you have just highlighted your dilema yourself

    For gaming i would always use an LCD , in fact i do my 360 is connected to a 720p LCD and looks fab

    So your quest for 1080 on this route may be valid

    For standard TV fayre i use a 42" plasma and much prefer it for general use the PQ is superior in my eyes to LCD wouldnt dream of watching football on a LCD

    As for blue ray thats another expense to be added

    regards
     
  28. ///ajd

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    I would have gone for 1080p, but at the moment, for the budget I was prepared to spend (same as yours) - that would mean an LCD screen. When you bring other factors to play such as plasma blacks vs cloudy LCDs - I realised that resolution isn't everything, and I couldn't see the point of spending loads on the absolute best technology now - when other factors such as HD freeview may influence what we want in 3-4 yrs.
     
  29. gizlaroc

    gizlaroc
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    Yeah you can, but it doesn't look as good, also as soon as you start to show a moving image on an LCD the resolution drops to below that of a plasma, so the one area where is is better suddenly looses out to plasma again.

    Plasma will always compete as it is the higher end product, think of LCD as a mini system, does everyting but nothing that well, and plasma as a high end seperates product, doesn't have all the flashing lights and 6 cd but its performace is better.

    Problem is you are trying to convince people who own both techs and know which one is best, I have a Panny LCD and I use my consoles on that when my missus is watching stuff on the plasma, but as soon as I get a chance to get on the plasma I do. It is so much better.

    Plasmas are probably going to start getting more expensive, I think you will see most brands put their budget products into LCD over teh next few years and plasma will stay as a high end niché product, Pioneer have already stated that this is the direction they want to move, they are no longer concerntrating on competeing with others on price, they are just going to make the best sets they can, and it wil cost what it costs.
     
  30. pdiddy

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    I can catergoricallly state that ther are no 1080p plasma tv`s for sale under £1000.

    There are no 42" 1080p plasma`s on sale full stop. The 1st will be from panasonic sometime this summer and is expected to be priced at £2k to £2.5k.

    The reason for this is that the pixels are rectangular on a plasma rather than square on an LCD, this in turn makes the pixels bigger on plasma than those on an LCD. This is the reason why manufacturers have not introduced 1080p on to plasma yet, the manufacturing costs have been to great to squeeze that number of pixels into a 42" screen.

    From your statements in this thread it seems you have already made your mind up and should maybe ask this question in the LCD forum. You may have more look in getting someone to agree with you.

    There are far greater proportion of LCD owners with 1080p and they`ll tell you its the best thing since sliced bread.;)

    Ask the same question to a plasma owner and you`ll get the same responce`s as you`ve had in this thread.

    Phil
     

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