Fujitsu-P42VHA30 or NEC-42XM2. Views Please!

[Fishbones]

Hi.

My list is down to these two. The option of the NEC is based on specs and forum views only as I have not had the opportunity to demo one of these. I am essentially looking for a TOTALLY posterizing (color banding) FREE panel. Had a very bad experience with a samsung (buyers remorse).

So if anyone has had the opportunity to compare these two...Please Help!

Thanks

 

[Diapason]

Hmmm,

has anyone on this forum actually seen the NEC yet? I haven't so I can't comment, but the VP4 (which some people raved about) had awful problems with colour banding every time I saw it. I was never impressed. Still, that doesn't mean anything for the new model.

Si

 

[AV Geeza]

Im interested in these two, too!
Does anyone know where they can be demo'd side by side?
Whats the contrast figures for the NEC 42MX2?

 

[Blu-rayx]

Hi,



Try this link


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/foru...=&sortfield=lastpost&perpage=30&pagenumber=2:



DVD

 

[Fishbones]

Unable to demo the NEC and no feedback here so I went ahead and ordered the Fujitsu from
here.

Anyone ever deal with them? Very helpful and good prices.

 

[peezee]

Oops... just found out about this thread!

I recently demo'ed the NEC VP4 and was quite happy with the picture, especially relative to its rather low price (being just a monitor, no mess no frills does help of course). Extensive connectivity, vibrant and realistic colours, excellent blacks (Pana-ish), reasonably low picture noise, an overall "cinema" feel which I personally enjoy. And yes, some colour banding but I've seen worse before (very disappointed with new Hitachi series on that aspect).

[
Btw colour banding/posterization/false contouring are indeed the artefacts which I can least stand with plasmas, especially on skin tones and faces (oh those green lines... ugly ugly!! )
]

The main reason (beside its "low rez") I passed up is that the VP4 DVI connection is non-HDCP; until we understand better all this DVI/HDMI/HDCP vs HDTV issue I feel safer getting a plasma with HDCP.

As for the XM2, beside its higher rez 1024x768 it's supposedly a marked improvement over the VP4 (new glass) however I'm still looking for a place where they'd have it on demo. AFAIU (from the avsforum) only the XM2/S (Silver) model is HDCP compliant, while the plain XM2 is not . Comments from that forum are pretty enthusiastic over the XM2 btw...

Lastly, the Fuji P42VHA30 that you ordered uses the Pana 6 glass, I've briefly seen it running a movie and it looked great. Only thing is, Fuji removed the DVI connection - let alone HCDP! Strange since the previous gen. (VHA20) did have a DVI-HDCP input...! Is Fuji going backward on HD...?

 

[MAW]

No, they left it off for pricing reasons. New EU tariff just around the corner apparently.

 

[peezee]

Right... If I understand correctly, adding DVI alone isn't a big deal, it's adding DVI-HDCP that significantly adds up to the cost due to the bloody HDCP license - right?

Man, the FCC and other orgs have to put their act together; not only it's a mess today to find sources that are compatible with flat screens via DVI and vice-versa (due to various "firmware" implementations of DVI and HDCP!) but in addition they (the Intel HDCP subsidiary?) charge us consumers (thru the screen manuf's who somehow forward the cost to us) an insane amount of money for a protocol (HDCP) that's supposed to *restrict* us from using our equipment as we please!!

Am I missing s'thing here? Or are we indeed getting scre.ed - yet again?

MAW : what do you mean by "new tariff"? Is it for Fujitsu screens only, or s'thing else? D'you know if prices will be revised down or up ?

 

[MAW]

The tariff so I hear is cos the EC are planning, well already legislated, to re classify monitors with DVI, whether HDCP or not, as televisions, ie consumer, not professional, items. This will attract a 14% import tariff. It's the EC, get real about price! The rules are as brilliant as a scart plug.....

 

[rscott4563]

I have noticed a discrepancy between the US and UK specs for the NEC 42MX2S, on the UK website it states that it has a greyscale of 256, giving a total colour range of 16.7 million, where as the US website states that the 42MX2S has a greyscale of 4096, giving a total colour range of 68.7 billion colours.

Whats going on, is the one of them wrong or is there actually a difference between the two (it would seem strange, especially if the UK version really does only have a 256 greyscale as this is definitely behhind the rest of the competition)??

Cheers

Ryan

 

[AV Geeza]

The review in HCC states it has 4096 shades of grey so the UK site may well be wrong.
The review is quite disappointing considering the spec of this screen.

 

[peezee]

AV Geeza, I can't get HCC here and they don't have the 42XM2 review posted on their website yet, so I thought maybe you'd be kind enough to summarize here the main points for which you think the review is disappointing.

TIA !

 

[Fishbones]

I don't understand......the NEC 42XM2/S is on sale at various UK internet shops.....why has nobody bought, viewed or demoed one of these yet? Could it be because on "the rest of the world's" web sites the specs state it has a greyscale of 256, and in the US it states 4096...therefore the big enthusiasm about this panel on the AVSforum? If it is indeed a 4096 panel...why has NEC not changed their specs on the "the rest of the world's" web sites?

Anyway...also can't understand why nobody has ever mentioned this site on this forum. These guys have good prices and were very helpful IMO.

 

[AV Geeza]

Peezee,
Here are a few bits from the review:
Good points-
...the screen is exceptionally bright. Light colourful scenes have superb punch and snap, looking almost radioactive in their intensity.
...with really bright scenes its as good as any of its rivals.
Secondly there's less sign of the sort of colour banding we've seen afflict many NEC plasmas of the past.
Third, motion is handled decently, with less trailing dotty noise than afflicts some rival screens. Finally theres impressively little of that old plasma nasty of grey pixel noise, even during dark scenes.

Bad points-
Deep blacks look washed out to dull greys, so for all NEC's extreme brightness there are still many times when the picture actually falls flat.
Neither are we convinced about the 4XM2's colour tone.
...during tv viewing, it can look good, but during movie viewing from DVD via the component jacks, fleshtones are tinged with green or red.
...fine details seem rather average.
...it still seems to have a corporate bias with its pictures. And so with people like Panasonic streaks ahead with their picture performance and charging less for their screens than NEC does, it 's difficult to see why any astute home cinema punter would really want to choose the 42XM2.

Hope this helps.

 

[buns]

the us forums are certainly very keen.... so the HCC review is a tad odd really!

In any case, the panny screens cost somewhat more..... dont forget the NEC compares to the HD panny, not the ED.

Oh and whats the sense in the silver xm2 having hdcp and not the standard..... ive seen at least one place where the 2 are actually priced the same.

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[peezee]

AV Geeza, thanx a bunch for the summary, much appreciate!

The price is indeed the same for XM2 and XM2/S models (everywhere I've looked anyway). I guess the only difference would be the cost for an HDCP license?

I'm more than a little surprised with some of the elements in the review.

First off, the XM2 is significantly *less* expensive than its equivalent HD Panasonic plasma - NOT more expensive as stated in HCC.

I have demo'ed quite extensively (including DVD, PC connection, HD clips, test patterns, still pictures, ...) the previous gen 42VP4 and I've seen just about *none* of the weaknesses mentioned in the HCC review for the XM2 (a more recent gen plasma).

Most notably, blacks are very convincing (close to Pana's, as can be seen in this roundup: http://www.hdtvexpert.com/Pages/6degrees.htm ) and there's no tinging -green or red- of the skin tones either (which is very noticeable on other plasmas).

There's always a chance a new gen glass would produce a picture of lesser quality than its predecessor (Hitachi comes to mind, imho) but I would encourage anyone to go and demo an XM2 before discounting it based on this less than enthusiastic review...!

 

[DPF]

I'm in the market for a plasma and have seen 4XM2 in action and also a Marantz rebadged version of same screen (model no ?) and the Fujitsu P42VHA30.

I did not see them in same store together but did see the Marantz, Pioneer 434HDE, and a Panny 42 PA20A together so feel I can make some comparisons.

Both provide a great picture and neither are IMO weak in any area this is just a relative rating.

NEC had better colours, greater detail, clearer picture (did see via DVI connection and component)

VHA30 better blacks & contrast (component only)

The Marantz version of screen actually looked far better than Pioneer 434HDE but I dont think the store was doing pioneer any favours in the setup as have seen pioneer in other stores looking very nice.

I would not agree with the HCC review (although I have only read AV Geeza's summary above, thanks for that) and would lean more to the avsforum views from what I have seen.

When it comes to purchasing (in next week or so I hope) I may still go for VHA30 due mostly to price difference I can buy the two models for.

Cheers

 

[DPF]

sorry double posted bit new to this

Cheers

 

[DPF]

Just checked spec sheet I was given, the Marantz version of NEC 42XM2 is Marantz PD4240D

NEC Aust. advised both models are identical (except badging), specs read the same.

 

[AV Geeza]

DPF,
At at last someone "real" who has actually seen the NEC in action!

I have heard that the NEC's connections are on the side is this true?
Price differnce aside, do you think that the NEC gives a better picture than the Fujitsu?

Anyone know how good NEC after sales service is?

Remember guys, the review in HCC is just one persons opinion and at the end of the day, the only opinion that really matters is your own!!!!
Oh, and SWMBO!!!!!!!!!

 

[buns]

The NEC warranty i have been told is 2 years on site with loan support..... this is one of the best i know off..... but i guess that depends on whether they are good to it

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[MAW]

NEC after sales is good, they have the backing of the distributor as well as the retailer and NEC themselves. Yes the connections are on the side, there's room to cable tie everything down the side and exit in the usual place if that's an issue.

 

[DPF]

AV Geeza,

To be honest I cant remember where inputs are, I will post back on this after I go back and have another look.

Money no option I would purchase NEC 42XM2. The Fujitsu VHA30 still had slightly better blacks (did not see them together in same store this is based on my cross comparing). So it depends on what you like in a display, the 42XM2 (and Marantz version) had beautiful picture and colours with a lot of detail, particularly in shadow. The processing seemed to be very good, I didnt notice any noise, artifacts etc.

I also liked VHA30 fujitsu its blacks where better but it lost some detail in the shadow, I think this is what some people refer to as crushed blacks (this could be wrong use of term). VHA30 was a lot better than Panny 42PA20A in this regard IMHO

Colours on the NEC appeared more natural to me rather than over saturated, particularly compared to pioneer 434 (caution pioneer setup as previously stated)

NEC Aust have a 3 year warranty, I noticed Fujitsu Aust also moved to 3 years, Pioneer Aust have 5 year.

So you can see I'm trying to decide on cheaper price (like $2000 Aust) and better blacks Vs better colours, clearer picture, detail, and HD resolution.

I suggest you try and see one yourself, stating the obvious I know (and you would if you could), but we may all have different opinions on what makes a good display. I certainly dont see myself as an expert as I have only been investigating the plasma option for a month or so but I know what I like.

The HCC review certainly sounded unfair to the NEC 4XM2 I would rate it around 90% based on what other plasmas have been given that I have also had the opportunity to compare.

Regards
DPF

 

[peezee]

Originally posted by DPF
AV Geeza,

Money no option I would purchase NEC 42XM2. The Fujitsu VHA30 still had slightly better blacks (did not see them together in same store this is based on my cross comparing). So it depends on what you like in a display, the 42XM2 (and Marantz version) had beautiful picture and colours with a lot of detail, particularly in shadow. The processing seemed to be very good, I didnt notice any noise, artifacts etc.

Colours on the NEC appeared more natural to me rather than over saturated, particularly compared to pioneer 434 (caution pioneer setup as previously stated)

NEC Aust have a 3 year warranty, I noticed Fujitsu Aust also moved to 3 years, Pioneer Aust have 5 year.

The HCC review certainly sounded unfair to the NEC 4XM2 I would rate it around 90% based on what other plasmas have been given that I have also had the opportunity to compare.

Wow!! This DEFINITELY sounds much better than what's on the HCC review, and kind of aligns with what I've seen on the 42VP4 model - only better!
I love your mention of details in the shades (soo important for "photo realism" and 3D feel) and lack of noise or other artefacts...

Come on now, there HAS to be some degree of solarization/false contouring on moving skin tones or block areas, or...?

Originally posted by DPF


I also liked VHA30 fujitsu its blacks where better but it lost some detail in the shadow, I think this is what some people refer to as crushed blacks (this could be wrong use of term). VHA30 was a lot better than Panny 42PA20A in this regard IMHO

I think that as long as you have 'reasonably black blacks', at some point the level of picture details becomes more effective than having even deeper blacks... imho anyway. Would you concur?

 

[Timmy B]

VHA30 fujitsu its blacks where better but it lost some detail in the shadow, I think this is what some people refer to as crushed blacks

The source crushes blacks; if you want to see more shadow detail, up the brightness, or go into the professional mode and up the black level.

Or did you not have access to the settings?